Five Misconceptions About Calvinism

[jimmyjimmy]

Too bad more people do not care about doctrine. Most people these days want to go to church to have their ears tickled, and then out to the world to party.

At least you are standing firm.

 

[rockytopva]

At least you are standing firm.

Though I believe that the Sardisean bunch went overboard in doctrine, here in this time we have the opposite effect. I went to the local charismatic church and after looking over the what we believe made the comment that there was not a lot of doctrine here, just a few lines! The man looks at me and smiles, "We like it that way!"

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Though I believe that the Sardisean bunch went overboard in doctrine, here in this time we have the opposite effect. I went to the local charismatic church and after looking over the what we believe made the comment that there was not a lot of doctrine here, just a few lines! The man looks at me and smiles, "We like it that way!"

Without doctrine there can be no true worship.

 

[rockytopva]

At least you are standing firm.

I am holiness in doctrine and have not many friends. When I was 18 I went to a pizza bar with college friends after a summer of Pentecostal revival. After drinking a few beers I felt the Spirit urge me to get out of there. Upon leaving I felt the voice speak to me the second time not to do that again. I would spend the rest of that school year serving with the Freewill Baptist. The foot washing ritual they would have was unbelievably spiritual!

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I am holiness in doctrine and have not many friends. When I was 18 I went to a pizza bar with college friends after a summer of Pentecostal revival. After drinking a few beers I felt the Spirit urge me to get out of there. Upon leaving I felt the voice speak to me the second time not to do that again. I would spend the rest of that school year serving with the Freewill Baptist. The foot washing ritual they would have was unbelievably spiritual!

If Christ made a barrel of wine, and if at the Great Feast will be drinking wine, then how is it that you attribute the Spirit as forbidding you from drinking beer?

 

[rockytopva]

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. - 2 Corintheans 6

 

[rockytopva]

If Christ made a barrel of wine, and if at the Great Feast will be drinking wine, then how is it that you attribute the Spirit as forbidding you from drinking beer?

Talkative in the Pilgrims Progress was an expert on doctrine, but as Christian points out, even more with a belly of ale! But with a heart that is still carnal! And to let John Bunyan tell it....

Faith. Now did FAITHFUL begin to wonder; and stepping to CHRISTIAN (for he walked all this while by himself) he said to him (but softly), "What a brave companion have we got! Surely this man will make a very excellent pilgrim."

Chr. At this CHRISTIAN modestly smiled, and said, "This man with whom you are so taken will beguile with this tongue of his twenty of them that know him not."

Faith. Do you know him, then?

Chr. Know him! yes, better than he knows himself.

Faith. Pray, what is he?

Chr. His name is TALKATIVE; he dwells in our town: wonder that you should be a stranger to him, only I consider that our town is large.

Faith. Whose son is he? And whereabout doth he dwell?

Chr. He is the son of one SAY-WELL; he dwelt in Prating-row, and he is known of all that are acquainted with him by the name of TALKATIVE in Prating-row; and notwithstanding his fine tongue, he is but a sorry fellow.

Faith. Well, he seems to be a very pretty man.

Chr. That is to them that have not thorough acquaintance with him: for he is best abroad; near home he is ugly enough. Your saying that he is a pretty man, brings to my mind what I have observed in the work of the painter, whose pictures show best at a distance; but very near, more unpleasing.

Faith. But I am ready to think you do but jest, because you smiled.

Chr. God forbid that I should jest – though I smiled – in this matter, or that I should accuse any falsely; I will give you a further discovery of him. This man is for any company, and for any talk; as he talks now with you, so will he talk when he is on the ale bench; and the more drink he hath in his crown, the more of these things he hath in his mouth; religion hath no place in his heart, or house, or conversation; all he hath lieth in his tongue, and his religion is to make a noise therewith.

Faith. Say you so! Then am I in this man greatly deceived.

 

[St_Worm2]

John Calvin... I wish the Catholics would have done him in while he was in France!

Yeah, the only good Calvinist is a dead Calvinist! Actually, I've heard it all before Rocky

I know Calvin took a huge risk by going back to France and trying to save the life of Michael Servetus, because the French RC's would have killed him if they caught him. Fortunately, God didn't allow that to happen

BTW, you do realize that we Calvinists (who believe in/teach the Perseverance of the Saints) are VASTLY outnumbered by the Arminians and Wesleyans who believe and teach OSAS, yes? (no matter what their official church doctrine may or may not have to say about it )

 

[stuart lawrence]

Why do many (i.e. not all) Calvinists say, in their own words, that they don't believe in free will?

Therefore it does not depend on man's desire or effort but in God's mercy
Rom9:16

 

[rockytopva]

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[rockytopva]

I have come to know four generations in my lifetime...

1. Great-Grandparents - WW1
2. Grandparents- WW2-Korean War
3. Parents - Vietnam War - Baby boomers
4. Mine - The product of the baby boomers

There are those whom I would grant the title, 'eternally secure,' and would not have as issue with their salvation. I use to work with many Baptist and made samples for four Baptist ladies. I simply do not find anything in their characters that would suggest anything but who they are, and it would be a complete shock if any of them turned to evil.

With my generation and those thereafter, I simply do not find a life worthy of the title, eternally saved. The love of pleasure makes them unstable, and unfit of what Calvin called the preservation of the saints. The Baptist youth group I was brought up in basically went AWOL on Christ. There was a girl outside this group who was invited to a dope smoking party with the others, and ended up telling on them. Too many these days think they are eternally secure when their lives suggest otherwise.

If I don't like the Calvin guy it is because I believe the teaching gives people, especially of my generation, a false sense of eternal security,

 

[rockytopva]

Yeah, the only good Calvinist is a dead Calvinist! Actually, I've heard it all before Rocky

I know Calvin took a huge risk by going back to France and trying to save the life of Michael Servetus, because the French RC's would have killed him if they caught him. Fortunately, God didn't allow that to happen

BTW, you do realize that we Calvinists (who believe in/teach the Perseverance of the Saints) are VASTLY outnumbered by the Arminians and Wesleyans who believe and teach OSAS, yes? (no matter what their official church doctrine may or may not have to say about it )

I simply do not mind the fact that we have Lutherans and Calvinist saved, with many of them just as good as any other Christian. And I do not believe the only good Calvinist a dead Calvinist.

Martin Luther and John Calvin both started out good. In their elderly years they could really write some hateful and mean things about people. Luther's poor physical health made him short-tempered and even harsher in his writings and comments. His wife Katharina was overheard saying, "Dear husband, you are too rude," and he responded, "They are teaching me to be rude."

Though I think the reformation a good thing, I would have cautioned the reformers not to get just as bad as the group they reformed from.

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Calvinists all understand that man has a free will. It's a will which is free to sin.

Hi Brother Jimmy,

To understand what your saying, can it be said:

Freedom of will with the knowledge of good and evil is free to sin and we all have this in our heart since adam and eve.

All souls have and will sin and fall short of the Glory of God, way way way (* eternity) short.

All are incapable of His law.

All souls will be judged against the perfect law of God.

Freedom in Christ Jesus is freedom from His Righteous Judgment and punishment destined for sinful man. Freedom given not because of any works, but by His mercy and grace for those He loved first), those He calls to repentance, who will hear and believe in His atoning sacrifice for the remission of sin His Son Jesus Christ, who are then sanctified by the Holy Spirit, being born again into His everlasting Kingdom.

Being born again begins as a bub and the flesh is brought into obedience by the saving work of God by His food, His Word His Holy Spirt.

My question,

Are there freedoms in Christ, what is will as a bub? the bub who grows more and more a son God is making in Christ.

What is will as a son in Christ?

e.g. Before the fall adam was free to do all God's graces He created for adam, except what He had forwarned adam not to do.

God's amazing Glorious plan for His children in Christ Jesus is in no way comparable to what adam was in the garden before the fall.

Is there freedom in His graces?

And when everything is restored after the book of life, we are free to eat of the tree of life again.

So what is will as a son?

Is it like God giving us a infinite amount of options that are all good and all in and to His Glory?

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Love, is there will in love. The greatest being loving God as He loved us first?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

If I don't like the Calvin guy it is because I believe the teaching gives people, especially of my generation, a false sense of eternal security,

As opposed to no sense of security, which is what we get from your gospel. Where's the "good news"?

 

[Senkaku]

for me, it's not calvinism that bugs me, but calvinists. I don't like what calvinism has done to it's people. Calvinists I have met (minus 1) seem to be very pushy, arrogant and aggressive about what they believe and can't seem to let it go until people believe them. They try really hard to convince people. It was worse in bible college, but that's another story. They just don't come off as people at ease or at peace with God, like something is bugging them or something like that. I just don't understand why anyone would want to believe in something that causes you to have to defend that point of view so aggressively. It's like 2+2=4, no one even bats an eye when someone wants to believe it's something else because we know it's not true. we don't get stressed, in fact, we'd probably laugh at them. So, I'm usually weary when someone tries really hard to prove something, just comes off as insincere or maybe unnatural. But hey, that's just my opinion

 

[Hammster]

for me, it's not calvinism that bugs me, but calvinists. I don't like what calvinism has done to it's people. Calvinists I have met (minus 1) seem to be very pushy, arrogant and aggressive about what they believe and can't seem to let it go until people believe them. They try really hard to convince people. It was worse in bible college, but that's another story. They just don't come off as people at ease or at peace with God, like something is bugging them or something like that. I just don't understand why anyone would want to believe in something that causes you to have to defend that point of view so aggressively. It's like 2+2=4, no one even bats an eye when someone wants to believe it's something else because we know it's not true. we don't get stressed, in fact, we'd probably laugh at them. So, I'm usually weary when someone tries really hard to prove something, just comes off as insincere or maybe unnatural. But hey, that's just my opinion

I think if you read some of the recent threads on Calvinism, you'll find the opposite to be the case.

 

[RC1970]

for me, it's not calvinism that bugs me, but calvinists. I don't like what calvinism has done to it's people. Calvinists I have met (minus 1) seem to be very pushy, arrogant and aggressive about what they believe and can't seem to let it go until people believe them. They try really hard to convince people. It was worse in bible college, but that's another story. They just don't come off as people at ease or at peace with God, like something is bugging them or something like that. I just don't understand why anyone would want to believe in something that causes you to have to defend that point of view so aggressively. It's like 2+2=4, no one even bats an eye when someone wants to believe it's something else because we know it's not true. we don't get stressed, in fact, we'd probably laugh at them. So, I'm usually weary when someone tries really hard to prove something, just comes off as insincere or maybe unnatural. But hey, that's just my opinion

As a Calvinist, I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, there are many Calvinists that do exactly what you are describing.

 

[Albion]

I kinda sympathize with what you said, Senkaku, but some of that sharp edge must owe to the almost hateful campaign of some other Christians against Calvinism (or what they think to be Calvinism).

I mean, if a lot of self-righteous churchgoers were telling me that I believe that God is evil or that Election means that you can sin all you want since you will be saved regardless, I think it would get under my skin, too.

 

[RC1970]

I kinda sympathize with what you said, Senkaku, but some of that sharp edge must owe to the almost hateful campaign of some other Christians against Calvinism (or what they think to be Calvinism).

I mean, if a lot of self-righteous churchgoers were telling me that I believe that God is evil or that Election means that you can sin all you want since you will be saved regardless, I think it would get under my skin, too.

This is very true as well. Too much smugness all the way around.