Fitness/Diet Accountability Thread

[RDKirk]

I started taking some Fenutrax, which is a standardized fenugreek extract. It's supposed to help increase free testosterone and might help also with weight loss (it's used in traditional Chinese and Indian medicine as a tonic, and it's found in the Chinese culinary spice blend Five Spices). I'm taking only about 500mg a day, because I already eat some fenugreek occasionally in my diet and I want to start with a low dose anyways. Fenugreek seems to have better support for its usage than other herbs like Tongkat Ali, which I've seen some studies suggesting is mostly ineffective at actually significantly raising free testosterone. Hopefully, when I lose more fat and get in better shape, I won't need the fenugreek anymore, but it seems to have a decent safety record (though it's not safe in large amounts for pregnant women, as it has hormonal effects and has a reputation for inducing labour).

Hmm. I've just recently started taking Tongkat Ali to free up testosterone. My total testosterone is fairly high (too high for my doctor to consider replacement therapy), but my free testosterone level is in the basement. I may try Fenutrax if the Tongkat Ali doesn't show results in six or eight weeks.

 

[FireDragon76]

Hmm. I've just recently started taking Tongkat Ali to free up testosterone. My total testosterone is fairly high (too high for my doctor to consider replacement therapy), but my free testosterone level is in the basement. I may try Fenutrax if the Tongkat Ali doesn't show results in six or eight weeks.

I've had problems with low testosterone before, in my mid 30's. My testosterone was very low. I went to a doctor trained in traditional Chinese medicine (she was from mainland China) and got a course of acupuncture and herbs to take. She specialized in treating fertility problems, that was most of her business: infertile women. My testosterone went up into the normal range and my family doctor was pleased with the results, so he didn't have to put me on TRT.

 

[timewerx]

I prefer brown or black rice but white rice isn't the worst food you could eat. Just make sure the white rice is fortified.

I did like brown or black rice. Mexican rice is probably a favorite but too expensive to become part of daily meals.

Also, try to find some green vegetables, cabbage, or herbs that are safe to eat, even if you can oly afford to eat it a few times a week it can make a big difference. Getting enough vitamin C has made a big difference in my joint health.

I already do. Fortunately, we have cheap, home-cooked steamed vegetables at the wet market. Always part of daily meals and I do like the taste of green vegetables!

I've also wondered if drinking some glucose before exercise wouldn't allow me to get more fat burning by increasing the intensity. It's something I'll have to research.

Maximum fat burn rate is achieved while exercising at around 65 to 75% of your maximum heart rate. Such exercise would be well within aerobic metabolism, hence cardio. It may peak at around 70% max heart rate and starts dropping after that.

This is roughly a heart rate of 112 to 130 bpm for you during a cardio workout. But don't try to be hitting 130 too soon. This may take few months before you get there.

Your advice has been helpful in pointing me in the right direction. I've started being able to push up my cardio workouts. I normally use a slight incline on the treadmill, and a walking pace, and try to get my heart rate up to around 105-110. I can do that for about thirty minutes before my legs start getting sore.

Good to know!

On weekend or days off, you may do two or more 30 minute sets with 15 minutes rest in between

If your legs are sore, switch to another cardio workout using your arms so your legs will get some rest.

Arm cardio like the row boat machine or even doing quick reps with light 3 lb dumbbells with both arms simultaneously for 15 minutes.

But if you're catching you breath after 30 minutes of cardio, then do a full rest or any very easy workout with your arms.

 

[FireDragon76]

I did like brown or black rice. Mexican rice is probably a favorite but too expensive to become part of daily meals.

What is "Mexican rice"? Over here there's rice that's been colored yellow, maybe with a little chicken or vegetable broth added. It seems to be common in any country with a legacy of Spanish colonialism. For instance, people on Guam ate this when I lived there, and local people here in Orlando also eat it too. Sometimes there's peas and carrots added.

Maximum fat burn rate is achieved while exercising at around 65 to 75% of your maximum heart rate. Such exercise would be well within aerobic metabolism, hence cardio. It may peak at around 70% max heart rate and starts dropping after that.

This is roughly a heart rate of 112 to 130 bpm for you during a cardio workout. But don't try to be hitting 130 too soon. This may take few months before you get there.

You can also burn alot of glucose at higher heart rates, which can come out of muscle tissue if you are exercising in a fasted state. That's why I'm taking a small amount of sugar before exercise. I use about two teaspoons of dextrose powder per 100 calories burned before the workout.

Good to know!

On weekend or days off, you may do two or more 30 minute sets with 15 minutes rest in between

I learned a new dumbell exercise called an Arnold Press (named after Arnold Schwarzenegger, who favored the exercise). I'm only using a two pound weight to start out because I have a shoulder injury from the past, and I do enough sets till I feel fatigue in my shoulder. If you mix that with some rows, squats, and some pushups (I do 45 degree's, not flat, at the moment), you have a whole body exercise routine that doesn't take alot of time.

 

[timewerx]

What is "Mexican rice"? Over here there's rice that's been colored yellow, maybe with a little chicken or vegetable broth added. It seems to be common in any country with a legacy of Spanish colonialism. For instance, people on Guam ate this when I lived there, and local people here in Orlando also eat it too. Sometimes there's peas and carrots added.

Yup, that's it. It can be yellow or orange. Ironically, Mexican rice isn't part of our local cuisine in the Philippines. They only serve them in Spanish or Mexican restaurants here.

When I lived and worked in Saudi Arabia, the Pakistani restaurants served chicken barbecue with salsa sauce, spinach sauce, assorted veggies, and Mexican rice. I was like

Even the Arabs love it! And it only cost $1 with very generous serving of Mexican rice!

You can also burn alot of glucose at higher heart rates, which can come out of muscle tissue if you are exercising in a fasted state. That's why I'm taking a small amount of sugar before exercise. I use about two teaspoons of dextrose powder per 100 calories burned before the workout.

There's no need to do what you're doing. If you fact, you shouldn't be doing it if losing weight is your goal.

The muscles using its own glycogen doesn't cause any problems.

I do my 6 hours non-stop bicycle ride in the mountain during my fasting window without eating anything. Zero calorie intake. No coffee/caffeine either.

The last hour would include several high intensity intervals yet I finish this ride with muscles still strong, no fatigue, no soreness. no DOMS.

If you're not getting significant/intense hunger cravings during your workouts, the cause of your muscle fatigue/soreness is something else. According to modern studies, is due to accumulation of hydrogen ions. You're simply not used to longer workouts.

As you get used to longer workouts, your body gets better at getting rid of waste products and avoid accumulation of h-ions and you become more resistant to fatigue and soreness even if you don't eat before or during exercise.

two pound weight to start out because I have a shoulder injury from the past, and I do enough sets till I feel fatigue in my shoulder.

That's a great thing to do in between cardio workouts if you decide to make to do two 30 minute workouts.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yup, that's it. It can be yellow or orange. Ironically, Mexican rice isn't part of our local cuisine in the Philippines. They only serve them in Spanish or Mexican restaurants here.

When I lived and worked in Saudi Arabia, the Pakistani restaurants served chicken barbecue with salsa sauce, spinach sauce, assorted veggies, and Mexican rice. I was like

Even the Arabs love it! And it only cost $1 with very generous serving of Mexican rice!

Here in the US, it's commonly called "Spanish rice".

There's no need to do what you're doing. If you fact, you shouldn't be doing it if losing weight is your goal.

The muscles using its own glycogen doesn't cause any problems.

Muscles will eventually run out of glycogen, though, then the liver produces glucose from muscle tissue itself. The body's pool of protein is actually mostly just muscle tissue and the little bit of waste products inside cells. We don't store protein anywhere else, and the blood has a very limited capacity to carry protein. Fasting occasionally helps clear out the waste products of metabolism, but too much fasting can also be detrimental to lean muscle mass.

Carbohydrates can actually be "protein sparing", and if they are consumed in small amounts combined with exercise, they won't be stored as fat. They allow your body to better use protein to build muscle or burn fat, instead of burning protein as fuel.

I do my 6 hours non-stop bicycle ride in the mountain during my fasting window without eating anything. Zero calorie intake. No coffee/caffeine either.

You're on a very different training regimen with different goals. I'm just aiming for the equivalent of getting 7,000-10,000 steps a day, and trying to preserve muscle mass as much as possible.

I think it's a case of moderation being best when it comes to cardio. If you enjoy six hour bike rides, then that's reason enough for you to engage in them, but I don't think there's good evidence that is necessarily healthier than just getting some walking in most days of the week. And too much cardio volume definitely has its downsides: some professional cyclists, after all, develop some disturbing cardiovascular abnormalities (enlarged hearts, atrial fibrilation and other arrythmias), not to mention eating huge amounts of food for no other reason than to become a human dynamo, but for them, it's all part of the risks and costs of playing their game.

The last hour would include several high intensity intervals yet I finish this ride with muscles still strong, no fatigue, no soreness. no DOMS.

If you're not getting significant/intense hunger cravings during your workouts, the cause of your muscle fatigue/soreness is something else. According to modern studies, is due to accumulation of hydrogen ions. You're simply not used to longer workouts.

I think it's due to a combination of aging/injuries, fibromyalgia and being out of shape, in my case. It seems to be improving, though. Especially after I got a deep massage on my legs. Now the limiting factor is when I start to get pain in my shins, I know it's time to stop for the day and let my legs rest.

 

[FireDragon76]

First thing in the morning I got up, took my supplements and drank about two teaspoons of dextrose sugar in some water. Then I went to the gym and burned about 100 calories on the treadmill and did several sets of heavy fly exercises on the pulley machine to near failure. We made some beans and rice for breakfast with a side of greens. Then I met with my parents for lunch at Bolay (it's a kind of a fast casual place that serves grain bowls or "Buddha bowls", depending on what you want to call this style of food). I played some pinball at a pinball arcade, I got some coffee and talked with my dad and mom a little, and walked about 4500 steps at their shopping mall. I ended up getting some coconut water because I was feeling a bit hungry (it was the only healthy thing I could find that I'd actually want to eat or drink). And that held me over till I got home; then I had a glass of soymilk and some popcorn.

Suburban Americans have gotten even wierder, that's all I can say about the shopping mall. I feel like I'm a stranger in a strange land when I go to places like that.

My overall calories for the day was around 1500, which was a significant deficit, according to Cronometer (I burned around 2500), but I don't feel hungry. I ate about 71 grams of protein and 45 grams of fat, and about 30 grams of fiber (the rest of course was digestible carbohydrates, at around 280 grams). Using dextrose sugar with exercise in the morning may have helped a great deal to not feel like I was starving.

 

[timewerx]

Muscles will eventually run out of glycogen, though, then the liver produces glucose from muscle tissue itself. The body's pool of protein is actually mostly just muscle tissue and the little bit of waste products inside cells. We don't store protein anywhere else, and the blood has a very limited capacity to carry protein. Fasting occasionally helps clear out the waste products of metabolism, but too much fasting can also be detrimental to lean muscle mass.

Carbohydrates can actually be "protein sparing", and if they are consumed in small amounts combined with exercise, they won't be stored as fat. They allow your body to better use protein to build muscle or burn fat, instead of burning protein as fuel.

The volume of workouts you do even if you double, triple it won't come close to getting your glycogen levels dangerously low.

If you're worried about losing muscle mass, it's better to load up on easily digestible protein food with minimal amount of carbs before the workout if you wish to lose body fat as well. A good example of this is unsweetened cocoa powder like that sold by Ricoa or Hersheys. You can turn it into a beverage but if you're trying to lose fat, don't add sweetener unless you're using calorie-free sweetener. It will taste bitter without sweetener. But don't put too much, just enough to remove some of the bitterness. Even calorie-free sweeteners can mess up your hunger hormones so be careful. Best if you don't put any sweetener at all. Dark chocolate is NOT a good substitute because it is still loaded with sugar and other potentially toxic synthetic ingredients.

You have to trust me, I didn't come down to <7% body fat just reading articles and exercising. I did the work, did experiments on both exercise and nutrition, prayed and received guidance.

You're on a very different training regimen with different goals. I'm just aiming for the equivalent of getting 7,000-10,000 steps a day, and trying to preserve muscle mass as much as possible.

I think it's a case of moderation being best when it comes to cardio. If you enjoy six hour bike rides, then that's reason enough for you to engage in them, but I don't think there's good evidence that is necessarily healthier than just getting some walking in most days of the week.

I never recommended you to do such volume. At most, I'm only recommending you 1/3 the length of the cardio workout. 2 hrs in just one day each week and then much shorter exercise session in other days of the week like 30 minutes each day.

A few weeks ago, I did only one 2.75 hrs of cycling ride per week and 20 minutes of lifting each day and couple of months before that and did pretty well with it. I only gained 2 lbs of weight (mostly in fat) and not any more and maintained it for several weeks.

I'm in total agreement with you.

And too much cardio volume definitely has its downsides: some professional cyclists, after all, develop some disturbing cardiovascular abnormalities (enlarged hearts, atrial fibrilation and other arrythmias), not to mention eating huge amounts of food for no other reason than to become a human dynamo, but for them, it's all part of the risks and costs of playing their game.

My weekly volume still pales in comparison to the pros. Pros do at least 14 hrs of weekly training. Many upwards of 20 hrs /week and some even pushing it to 31 hrs/week. I only do 8 hrs/week at most.

I don't have the problems you listed.

I don't even eat a lot I only eat 1,600 Calories a day including the day I did 6 hr bike ride.

I've also done these rides fasted and sometimes without drinking anything before and during the exercise. No sane article will tell you do that because the results can be fatal. I won't recommend anyone to do it. But when I workout, I only drink when thirsty and I have indeed gone 6 hrs continuous bike ride without feeling thirsty even in the summer heat so I didn't drink. I came out perfectly fine, no issues at all.

God did promised these things in the Bible. You will no longer thirst, you will no longer get hungry, you will run and not grow weary, the sun won't beat down on you anymore. Maybe I'm taking things out of context but seems to be working out for me. I still won't recommend going these extremes. Definitely don't do it, stay safe!

 

[FireDragon76]

I weighed myself this morning, and body fat is back on the way down. I think cutting calories, increasing exercise intesity, but consuming a small amount of carbs before cardio is helping.

 

[timewerx]

I find "the hair of the dog that bit you" to be most helpful to prevent or mitigate DOMS, but it has to be applied soon after the dog bites you.

That is to say, follow such a strenuous exercise with an easy helping of the same exercise within 12 hours of that exercise.

However...if your legs are getting sore while exercising (and I'm talking about something other than "feeling the burn"), you might need to scale back and work more slowly. Or look at other factors, such as the fit and style of your shoes. You shouldn't be feeling pain during a moderate exercise.

What you're saying is called "active recovery"

When I'm cycling in the mountains for 6 hrs, the first 4 hrs would be hardest because that's where most of the long climbs will be and facing the most resistance from the heavy bike and sometimes even strong headwinds in the mountain where my loose hoodie can catch the wind like a small parachute. My legs and back would be sore but nothing too unpleasant to ruin the experience.

The next 2 hrs would be mostly descents and flat roads. I don't stop pedaling if possible but I will be taking it easy (the active recovery phase). During this time, the soreness would go away slowly. The last 30 minutes I'd be almost free of soreness and regain full strength. I'd be doing couple high intensity intervals during this time.

I arrive home without soreness and without DOMS (even after a few days later). The afternoon, same day, I would still do weight lifting at my full weight capacity and then weight lifting again the next day and for another couple of days.

It seems I can recover very quickly from a long exercise, in just a matter of few hours. Perhaps because I'm still relatively young at 42.

Another theory based on what I read in published studies is that ketones in the blood may speed up repair of damaged tissues. You'll get ketones if you exercise long enough whether you're taking in carbs before or during the workout or nothing at all.

I always exercise fasted so I'll have elevated levels of ketones sooner. Research has also shown that active recovery makes more efficient use of blood "lactate" to help repair damaged tissues.

You get increased production of blood lactate during exercise and you get even more if you combine exercise with fasting. However, with active recovery, the blood lactate level may still be relatively low because the muscles would metabolize them quickly for energy and for repair/recovery.

Natural antioxidants in the body behaves similarly. You get increased production during exercise and also get more during fasting which can help prevent/minimize tissue damage and aid in repair, including DNA repair.

Another compound produced by similar practice is "pyruvate" also aids in healing and providing energy to muscles.

It may sound very simplistic that combining fasting with exercise may grant rapid healing and recovery and turns your blood into the ultimate natural medicine but it does seems to work. Certain things only fasting can deal with according to Jesus but back in those days, people are also very physically active. Most do and when they fast, they also inevitably end up doing it with high levels of physical activity.

 

[FireDragon76]

The DOMS muscle soreness seems to have gone down a great deal, I'm not getting nearly as sore the next day, even though intensity of training is higher.

 

[FireDragon76]

I notice as I continue to lose body fat, my hunger cues are changing. I still get hungry if I've done quite a bit of walking or exercise but I don't get the "Chinese food syndrome" that I sometimes got in the past, having to snack constantly (usually healthy stuff like rice cakes or carrots, but still snacking). The threshold seems to be around 22 percent body fat. If my body fat goes above this, I start getting hungry more often.

It's actually a little spooky. This morning I only ate 650 calories, including lunch, and I don't feel particularly hungry. I think I could easily push myself to only eat 1200 calories today, but that might be cutting calories too low.

I'm doing quite a bit of macronutrient manipulation. My diet has been about 25-30 percent protein in the past few days, which is slightly less than double what it usually is when I'm not cutting calories. I'm trying to keep protein up so I don't lose muscle mass. On the contrary, I seem to have continued to gain a little bit of muscle as I lose weight. I'm eating a mixture of whole plant foods (broccoli, collards, some beans, a little rice and fruits), processed plant-protein foods (Daring plant chicken is one of my favorites, good with sofrito or Jamaican curry), and protein powder.

One thing I've found helpful is consuming some homemade electrolytes using about a quarter teaspoon NoSalt (potassium) with a dash of table salt. It goes a long way making up for the fact alot of protein concentrates are often low in minerals, and getting enough potassium is important for long-term kidney health. I also usually take a tablespoon of magnesium citrate liquid in the morning to help get enough magnesium (it's available with the laxatives in a drugstore).

 

[FireDragon76]

Today we went to an infrared sauna. It was fairly intense, they had it set at 140F. I think next time I'll request they set it at 120-130. I never got really uncomfortable, but when I stepped out, I felt a little bit queasy or unpleasant, sort of like you feel after you are getting over the cold or flu. Sitting in the sauna itself, I didn't sweat as much as I expected, mostly just on my back.

My S.O. didn't sweat much at all. It must be due to different body types. I'm relatively stocky and don't have long legs. She grew up in Florida and hardly sweats.

It did result in improvement in my heart rate variability in the evening afterwards. It was bad this morning, relatively low. This might be worth doing once in a while, but I wouldn't recommend a high setting, I would stick with a low setting (120F in this case)

It might be worth doing once in a while in the future on the few cold days we have, when I don't feel like exercising... but I think I will look try looking into a sauna suit and just exercising in that, it would probably do about the same thing. Sometimes I do like getting warm in a hot bath as a kind of detox, but my bath tub is a little small an inadequate to really be immersed in hot water.

 

[FireDragon76]

I got on the scales today, and I'm a pound lighter than 2 days ago, the body fat percentage is down slightly, and I've lost two pounds since last week. Ketones are about 1 mmol/DL, which seems to be optimum. I'm eating at a 500 calorie deficit, so going back to a stricter diet seems to have paid off.

@timewerx mentioned that exercise could suppress appetite but I was a bit skeptical, but then I came across this video a few days ago. I recently found Dr. Miche's channel and she has alot of science-based fitness and health research:

I think the secret is to keep your heart rate at around 50-60 percent of maximum, just below the point you can't have an easy conversation, and do that for about twenty minutes or so. Heavy weight lifting tends to make me hungry, but low intensity cardio doesn't. It seems to help curb appetite, maybe resetting hunger hormones.

Also, I've been working out more with heavier therabands on some days, like today. It's less intense than weights, but you can add more volume much more easily, and it exercises the muscles differently. You can also autoregulate the resistance progression much more easily than with a weight machine.

 

[timewerx]

Today we went to an infrared sauna. It was fairly intense, they had it set at 140F. I think next time I'll request they set it at 120-130. I never got really uncomfortable, but when I stepped out, I felt a little bit queasy or unpleasant, sort of like you feel after you are getting over the cold or flu. Sitting in the sauna itself, I didn't sweat as much as I expected, mostly just on my back.

My S.O. didn't sweat much at all. It must be due to different body types. I'm relatively stocky and don't have long legs. She grew up in Florida and hardly sweats.

It did result in improvement in my heart rate variability in the evening afterwards. It was bad this morning, relatively low. This might be worth doing once in a while, but I wouldn't recommend a high setting, I would stick with a low setting (120F in this case)

It might be worth doing once in a while in the future on the few cold days we have, when I don't feel like exercising... but I think I will look try looking into a sauna suit and just exercising in that, it would probably do about the same thing. Sometimes I do like getting warm in a hot bath as a kind of detox, but my bath tub is a little small an inadequate to really be immersed in hot water.

The sauna can cause adaptations in the blood like increased oxygen-carrying capacity and improved oxygen delivery to the muscles.

These adaptations can make exercising feel easier, especially with cardio.

I workout in sauna-like conditions in the hottest several months of the year with our very humid climate and direct exposure to the sun. Home workouts are the same, in the balcony of our apartment exposed to the sun without using fan were temperatures will be above 100F.

 

[timewerx]

@timewerx mentioned that exercise could suppress appetite but I was a bit skeptical, but then I came across this video a few days ago. I recently found Dr. Miche's channel and she has alot of science-based fitness and health research:

I think the secret is to keep your heart rate at around 50-60 percent of maximum, just below the point you can't have an easy conversation, and do that for about twenty minutes or so. Heavy weight lifting tends to make me hungry, but low intensity cardio doesn't. It seems to help curb appetite, maybe resetting hunger hormones.

It doesn't always work though especially with insulin problems and if you're eating all the time.

The hypothesis that exercise won't make you compensate for the extra calories burned is only true if you eat at the same times each day and avoid eating/snacking/drinking caloried beverages between meals.

It is still easily possible to over-compensate exercise calories by eating between meals/eating all the time.

 

[RDKirk]

When you're seeing weight fluctuations of two or more pounds within a day or two, that's not fat, that's water.

 

[FireDragon76]

It doesn't always work though especially with insulin problems and if you're eating all the time.

The hypothesis that exercise won't make you compensate for the extra calories burned is only true if you eat at the same times each day and avoid eating/snacking/drinking caloried beverages between meals.

It is still easily possible to over-compensate exercise calories by eating between meals/eating all the time.

Snacking itself isn't necessarily bad, it's more about what people are snacking on. Choosing low calorie snacks like carrots can help alot, because they have few calories.

 

[timewerx]

Snacking itself isn't necessarily bad, it's more about what people are snacking on. Choosing low calorie snacks like carrots can help alot, because they have few calories.

I suppose that's okay (who can be wrong with carrots?) if for the sake of suppressing hunger hormones.

But it would be better if you don't eat anything at all apart from water between meals according to some studies I read.

The positive adaptations only happen if you keep to time restricted feeding.

Take advantage of doing short, light exercises between meals to suppress hunger. One short, light exercise, no more than 5 minutes will keep hunger away for at least another hour. Ofc, you can do another short, light exercise an hour later when hunger comes back to push back hunger for another hour. Keep repeating until your next meal.

This light exercise should be light enough that you're either not sweating or only very mildly sweating. You shouldn't be sweating too much you feel like hitting the shower each time and it would be a waste of time showering several times a day.

Perhaps, avoid lifting weights during these exercises, strictly light, low impact cardio only.

 

[FireDragon76]

When you're seeing weight fluctuations of two or more pounds within a day or two, that's not fat, that's water.

I think you are right, at least most of the weight lost was probably water. But I suspect some was fat, perhaps only a pound. Trying to build muscle and lose fat at the same time is very tricky.

My scale body fat today was completely bogus (26 percent fat, 58 percent water). It's strange because I don't feel the least bit dehydrated, but the scale seems to think so. So I am probably going to check the battery with a voltmeter. I've started relying more on tape measurements at this point, because the body fat scales can be unreliable.