Fish finger fossils show the beginnings of hands

[pitabread]

"Evolutionary stasis is an alternative scientific interpretation to the widely accepted Neo-Darwinism. It means that most species show little evolutionary change through history, instead, evolution occurs more abruptly and it can result in one species becoming two different species. The theory originated among paleontologists who study fossils. They found that (no intermediate forms of fossils exist).”

My Emphasis on the last sentence! https://phys.org/news/2013-02-species-sudden.html

What this the context of that quote though? IOW, what do you think they are specifically talking about?

 

[SkyWriting]

Causal determinism.

"Causal determinism is, roughly speaking, the idea that every event is necessitated by antecedent events and conditions together with the laws of nature. The idea is ancient, but first became subject to clarification and mathematical analysis in the eighteenth century. Determinism is deeply connected with our understanding of the physical sciences and their explanatory ambitions, on the one hand, and with our views about human free action on the other. In both of these general areas there is no agreement over whether determinism is true (or even whether it can be known true or false), and what the import for human agency would be in either case."

--Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy​

"There is no agreement?"
I'm confident that could never be said about anything.

 

[Aussie Pete]

So what's the point of it? All the world's biologists have been trapped into giving lip service to a false theory. Who's running this conspiracy and why?

You probably know that Christianity is (or should be) focused on the Kingdom of God. The world system (Cosmos, not the physical earth) is at war with the Kingdom of God. The evolution dictatorship is one of many attempts to silence Christians and anything that promotes the knowledge of God. I don't know what your religion is. I don't know how much you know about Christianity. We know that this warfare is not physical. It is a battle of ideas.

"For though we live in the flesh, we do not wage war according to the flesh.The weapons of our warfare are not the weapons of the world. Instead, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We tear down arguments, and every presumption set up against the knowledge of God; and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.…"

If the world system can silence Christians then it thinks it will win. It's a vain hope but that's all it has. So we find the world's institutions are doing their best to shut Christians down. Some of the pressures:

• The pro abortion lobby. They bitterly oppose Christians. Oddly, countless families are desperate to adopt. Why not allow the baby to be born and adopt out. No, abortion is against God so it has to be supported at any cost.
• Climate change. I'm not convinced but neither do I rule out the possibility. However, the outcry against so-called deniers is more like Soviet Russia than democracy. Recently a professor, who is a denier, was sacked for saying so publicly. To their credit, the court awarded the Professor aus 1 million in damages. No doubt the university concerned is far from happy.
• Evolution of course denies the existence and power of God the Creator. It casts doubts on His word - the very first temptation that faced man in the garden of Eden
• Finance. The world runs on money. Governments dare not let the economy collapse. When it does, sooner or later, they will lose control of the population. Lord Jesus said that the love of money is the root of all evil
• Consumerism. Goes along with finance. It's the false premise that you will be happy if you have more.
• Sports and entertainment. Marx called religion the opiate of the masses. Rubbish, unless you call sports a religion. Which is not that far off
• Total control - heading your way soon. Facial recognition, tracking satellites, data matching, undermining of privacy laws - all designed to monitor every aspect of your life. 1984 is about 20 years late but it is well on its way. Why? China has been able to crack down on Christian gatherings far more effectively using the new technology.
  
• "Racial vilification". This is attempting to suppress Christianity by stopping us from speaking the truth. In Australian schools it is not permitted to talk about sin, even in religious instruction classes. If people are ignorant of sin, they cannot be convicted and they therefore cannot be saved.
• The gender blender/homosexual/bisexual etc "rights" movement. It is incredibly powerful. If you speak the truth in the UK you risk going to jail. it is not a crime in itself and the courts have yet to find anyone guilty of quoting the Bible on the issue. That does not stop the police arresting Christians. How long before the Bible is classified as hate speech? What better way of suppressing Christians?

This list is not comprehensive. I hope it helps you to see what goes on behind the scenes and why. The world system will collapse completely one day and the Kingdom of God will replace it. It will not be without a fight.

 

[pitabread]

The evolution dictatorship is one of many attempts to silence Christians and anything that promotes the knowledge of God.

Except that many Christians readily accept evolution. This is just a false dichotomy.

It is also why creationists can never hope to truly "defeat" evolution. Instead of acknowledging the reality of modern biology and evolution, they are fighting a fictitious battle based on an imagined opponent.

Evolution of course denies the existence and power of God the Creator. It casts doubts on His word - the very first temptation that faced man in the garden of Eden

If your religious beliefs are dependent on a scientific theory being wrong, then that doesn't say much for your religious beliefs.

If the world system can silence Christians then it thinks it will win. It's a vain hope but that's all it has. So we find the world's institutions are doing their best to shut Christians down.

What you describe as "shutting down" Christians is just cultural change over time. Which is something that happens as cultures change over time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Atheism is The atheist elephant - Adam4d.com

Wow! Quite the strawman there.

And why are you confusing the fact of evolution with atheism? It appears that you are claiming that atheism is a fact as well when you do that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not to Be Used Again: Homologous structures and the presumption of originality as a critical Value - creation.com

When you use joke sites you only make a joke of yourself.

To even work at creation.com one must swear not to use the scientific method. That makes them all but worthless in a scientific debate.

 

[essentialsaltes]

• Evolution of course denies the existence and power of God the Creator.

• 
  
• No, it doesn't. That is not on the syllabus in science class.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You probably know that Christianity is (or should be) focused on the Kingdom of God. The world system (Cosmos, not the physical earth) is at war with the Kingdom of God. The evolution dictatorship is one of many attempts to silence Christians and anything that promotes the knowledge of God. I don't know what your religion is. I don't know how much you know about Christianity. We know that this warfare is not physical. It is a battle of ideas.

"For though we live in the flesh, we do not wage war according to the flesh.The weapons of our warfare are not the weapons of the world. Instead, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We tear down arguments, and every presumption set up against the knowledge of God; and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.…"

If the world system can silence Christians then it thinks it will win. It's a vain hope but that's all it has. So we find the world's institutions are doing their best to shut Christians down. Some of the pressures:

• The pro abortion lobby. They bitterly oppose Christians. Oddly, countless families are desperate to adopt. Why not allow the baby to be born and adopt out. No, abortion is against God so it has to be supported at any cost.

No, they oppose antiabortion Christians. Not all Christians are antiabortion. Especially since the Bible appears to support it, at least under some conditions.

• Climate change. I'm not convinced but neither do I rule out the possibility. However, the outcry against so-called deniers is more like Soviet Russia than democracy. Recently a professor, who is a denier, was sacked for saying so publicly. To their credit, the court awarded the Professor aus 1 million in damages. No doubt the university concerned is far from happy.

Climate change is not disputed by those that follow the scientific method either. And to oppose it one must be a denier of science these days. The verdict is in. We are the cause. But until you learn the basics of science you will not be able to understand how this is known.

• Evolution of course denies the existence and power of God the Creator. It casts doubts on His word - the very first temptation that faced man in the garden of Eden

No, it simply says that God is not a liar. That the endless evidence that we see supports evolution and evolution only. To make the error of translating the Bible literally is also the error of calling God a liar. Once again to understand this you need to understand the basics of science.

• Finance. The world runs on money. Governments dare not let the economy collapse. When it does, sooner or later, they will lose control of the population. Lord Jesus said that the love of money is the root of all evil

When government lose control the people suffer. It is more than just finance. The New Testament also says that one should obey political leaders.Romans 13 1-7. The Bible can be used to support all sorts of arguments.

• Consumerism. Goes along with finance. It's the false premise that you will be happy if you have more.
• Sports and entertainment. Marx called religion the opiate of the masses. Rubbish, unless you call sports a religion. Which is not that far off
• Total control - heading your way soon. Facial recognition, tracking satellites, data matching, undermining of privacy laws - all designed to monitor every aspect of your life. 1984 is about 20 years late but it is well on its way. Why? China has been able to crack down on Christian gatherings far more effectively using the new technology.
  
• "Racial vilification". This is attempting to suppress Christianity by stopping us from speaking the truth. In Australian schools it is not permitted to talk about sin, even in religious instruction classes. If people are ignorant of sin, they cannot be convicted and they therefore cannot be saved.
• The gender blender/homosexual/bisexual etc "rights" movement. It is incredibly powerful. If you speak the truth in the UK you risk going to jail. it is not a crime in itself and the courts have yet to find anyone guilty of quoting the Bible on the issue. That does not stop the police arresting Christians. How long before the Bible is classified as hate speech? What better way of suppressing Christians?

This list is not comprehensive. I hope it helps you to see what goes on behind the scenes and why. The world system will collapse completely one day and the Kingdom of God will replace it. It will not be without a fight.

And off the deep end.

 

[Strathos]

Saying that evolution is inherently anti-Christian is no different from saying that a round earth is inherently anti-Christian (and many flat earthers say that very thing). It's just the degree of how literally you take certain parts of the Bible.

 

[DaveISBA]

You failed in your burden of proof by not understanding the article that you used. They are talking about the very small changes from one species to another. The speciation that they are talking about is that of Homo erectus to Homo heidelbergensis or Homo heidelbergensis to Homo sapiens. On that very fine scale changes appear to be sudden.

Once again learning the terminology and asking questions is what you should be doing.

That article does not imply that more general transitional fossils are not to be found.


Transitional fossil - Wikipedia



The above article is a good starting point to understand this concept.

"A transitional fossil is any fossilized remains of a life form that exhibits traits common to both an ancestral group and its derived descendant group."

Transitional does not necessarily mean ancestral, but they are clear evidence for evolution.

Prominent researchers who are evolutionists like Stephen Jay Gould that examine the observable evidence state that not just a few species but most, some argue all life, appear abruptly with no transitional forms, then exhibit stasis throughout their history of existence!

Stephen Jay Gould Professor of Zoology and Geology at Harvard University, (The Panda’s Thumb): p. 182 "The history of (most fossil species) includes two features particularly inconsistent with gradualism: 1. Stasis. (Most species) exhibit no directional change during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear; morphological change is usually limited and directionless. 2. Sudden appearance. In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and "fully formed." My emphasis!

Steven M. Stanley, American paleontologist, evolutionary biologist (Macroevolution): Pattern and Process, p. 39) “The known fossil record fails to document a single example of phyletic evolution accomplishing a major morphological transition, and hence offers no evidence that the gradualistic model can be valid.”

Wikipedia? Oh my goodness! This disclaimer is from their own website!
"Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time. This means that any information it contains at any particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or just plain wrong."

 

[Larniavc]

I know enough to know that evolution is a con.

That’s an odd thing to say when you have stated quite clearly that you will not read links provided to you.

I think you have ruled yourself out of any discussion about ToE.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Prominent researchers who are evolutionists like Stephen Jay Gould that examine the observable evidence state that not just a few species but most, some argue all life, appear abruptly with no transitional forms, then exhibit stasis throughout their history of existence!

Stephen Jay Gould Professor of Zoology and Geology at Harvard University, (The Panda’s Thumb): p. 182 "The history of (most fossil species) includes two features particularly inconsistent with gradualism: 1. Stasis. (Most species) exhibit no directional change during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear; morphological change is usually limited and directionless. 2. Sudden appearance. In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and "fully formed." My emphasis!

Steven M. Stanley, American paleontologist, evolutionary biologist (Macroevolution): Pattern and Process, p. 39) “The known fossil record fails to document a single example of phyletic evolution accomplishing a major morphological transition, and hence offers no evidence that the gradualistic model can be valid.”

Wikipedia? Oh my goodness! This disclaimer is from their own website!
"Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time. This means that any information it contains at any particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or just plain wrong."

Your last statement is wrong. Wikipedia is a reliable source when used correctly. It is rather difficult for vandals to get away with anything for any length of time these days. And the fact that anyone can edit it is largely why. One cannot just sign up and edit away these days. One's first edits are checked. And if someone makes false edits those are quickly caught and the person loses his ability to edit. It is too much work for internet trolls to put much in the way of garbage into Wikipedia today. You are about ten years behind the times. At least.

And you are behind the times in regard to what paleontologists think as well. There have been many new discoveries since their times. Many "gaps" have been filled in. This thread is about another filled gap.

And of course you do not understand what Stanley and Gould were claiming. They were stating that there are long periods of stasis along with short periods of rapid evolution. When they claimed that species appeared suddenly they were talking about geologic time. And they were essentially correct. Their work allowed people that followed to concentrate their studies in the areas of rapid evolution. Concentrating on those time periods allowed specific gaps to be filled in. Tiktaalik is the best known example of using a focused search for a transitional species.

And of course paleontology is only the most obvious evidence for evolution thar the uneducated and deniers can see. The genetic difference is far stronger and one that creationists have no answer to except for denial.

Right now it looks as if you are making excuses not to accept reality. There is a reason that I offer to cover the basics. One cannot honestly deny that there is only evidence for evolution and evidence against a literalistic interpretation of Genesis if one understands the basics. Evolution does not refute Christianity. It only refutes literalism. But then so does a spherical Earth.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Gee, what desperate lengths they'll go to in hopes of there being no coming Judgment.

They got there and were told
sorry you don't get in.

Their reply
wasn't my fault that I fell for the fish finger story.

M-Bob

 

[Subduction Zone]

They got there and were told
sorry you don't get in.

Their reply
wasn't my fault that I fell for the fish finger story.

M-Bob

No, people that do not believe the Genesis story simply do not believe that God is a liar.

 

[Speedwell]

They got there and were told
sorry you don't get in.

Their reply
wasn't my fault that I fell for the fish finger story.

M-Bob

It sounds to me like you believe that belief in biblical creationism is a requirement of salvation.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

It sounds to me like you believe that belief in biblical creationism is a requirement of salvation.

I believe God made it and
God said, it was good.
M

 

[Speedwell]

It looks like you have been seriously pranked. Most of that disgusting rant is off topic for this forum, except for this:

• Evolution of course denies the existence and power of God the Creator.

• Which is a bald-faced lie. The theory of evolution says nothing about the existence of God, one way or the other. Unfortunately, for a minority of Christians it upsets their shallow and theologically inadequate interpretation of Genesis. In their arrogance they claim that the theory denies the existence of God, in order to puff themselves up. But it isn't true.

 

[Speedwell]

I believe God made it and
God said, it was good.
M

So do I, and I believe that the "fish finger" story as you call it is evidence of it.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

So do I, and I believe that the "fish finger" story as you call it is evidence of it.

Sorry, apparently I didn't read into it enough.
Check out more of the story later.
M-Bob

 

[Speedwell]

Sorry, apparently I didn't read into it enough.
Check out more of the story later.
M-Bob

I can save you the trouble: the theory of evolution does not deny the existence of God or our salvation in Christ.