Fish finger fossils show the beginnings of hands

[xianghua]

Can you make your question clearer? Dogs evolved from fish, and cats evolved from fish. This is a fact. So yes, this is possible.
This does not mean that cats can evolve from dogs. Fish followed different historical paths to get to cats and dogs. The tape cannot run backwards to undo these histories.

why not? if a cat can evolve from a fish why it cant evolve from a dog? we only need the right mutations.

 

[pitabread]

mutations have nothing to do with inheritance? realy?

Explain how you think inheritance works.

 

[pitabread]

but you said that you have no problem with 15234 scenario, right? if so we have no problem if we will find human with a dino. we can just push back the origin of human and dinos.

The "15234" scenario you keep referring to is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how evolution works. IOW, it's irrelevant to the discussion. There is no sense trying to argue something based on not understanding of the thing you keep trying to argue.

The only option for you at this point is to try to learn instead of just arguing.

 

[Speedwell]

mutations have nothing to do with inheritance? realy?

No, mutations have nothing directly to do with why a population of dogs can't evolve into a population of cats. No amount of mutations would do it. All mutations could do is make cat-like creatures out of dogs, not actual cats.

 

[xianghua]

For a population of canines to evolve to have a genetic makeup indistinguishable from felines would be a genetic convergence of astronomically unlikely odds, even given the necessary timescale and environmental conditions. Note that no only would it require all the functional genome to match indistinguishably, but all the non-coding DNA, including incidental mutations and all viral insertions back to their shared ancestor... That really would be a miracle!

what is the problem? they can say that since we might have infinite number of universe (the multiverse) if it happened it prove that its possible.

 

[Speedwell]

what is the problem? they can say that since we might have infinite number of universe (the multiverse) if it happened it prove that its possible.

And after all of that, they still wouldn't be cats, merely cat-like dogs.

 

[xianghua]

-

 

[xianghua]

And after all of that, they still wouldn't be cats, merely cat-like dogs.

if the genome will be identical it will be a cat.

 

[essentialsaltes]

why not? if a cat can evolve from a fish why it cant evolve from a dog? we only need the right mutations.

You're ignoring the history. Two brand new cars come off the lot, bought by different drivers. After 10 years of driving, they each have their own catalog of scratches, dents, cracks, and replacements. The process by which this happens is as natural as time passing. But you can't change one car into the other one.

 

[xianghua]

The "15234" scenario you keep referring to is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how evolution works.

no its not and you are keep saying that without any reference.

IOW, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

its very relevant actually. if human is more modern than a dino then it cant appeare before a dino. according to you its possible that a dino can appeare after a human fossil.

The only option for you at this point is to try to learn instead of just arguing.

sorry but so far it seems that you are the one who need to learn about that topic.

 

[Subduction Zone]

if the genome will be identical it will be a cat.

Are you familiar with the silly odds arguments that creationists try to use to refute evolution? Those arguments apply to your argument. The need for specific mutations to be repeated to do that pushes this far beyond what is generally considered to be impossible.

 

[Speedwell]

if the genome will be identical it will be a cat.

No. It will still be a member of the family Canidae which by an improbable series of events became genetically identical to a member of the family Felidae.

 

[xianghua]

You're ignoring the history. Two brand new cars come off the lot, bought by different drivers. After 10 years of driving, they each have their own catalog of scratches, dents, cracks, and replacements. The process by which this happens is as natural as time passing. But you can't change one car into the other one.

cars dont have genome. if they had genome then its indeed possible to change one into another.

 

[xianghua]

Are you familiar with the silly odds arguments that creationists try to use to refute evolution? Those arguments apply to your argument. The need for specific mutations to be repeated to do that pushes this far beyond what is generally considered to be impossible.

the multiverse can solve this problem. why not?

 

[xianghua]

No. It will still be a member of the family Canidae which by an improbable series of events became genetically identical to a member of the family Felidae.

how no? a creature with a genome that is identical to a cat genome isnt a cat?

 

[Subduction Zone]

the multiverse can solve this problem. why not?

Can it? The multiverse is a hypothesis and I am not sure that it even suggests that there could be an infinite number of universes.+

 

[pitabread]

no its not and you are keep saying that without any reference.

The "15234" is just somethng you made up. There is nothing else to reference.

its very relevant actually. if human is more modern than a dino then it cant appeare before a dino. according to you its possible that a dino can appeare after a human fossil.

Sure, the latter is possible because there is nothing requiring all dinosaurs to have gone extinct. But that is different than humans appearing before a dinosaur fossil (or even at the same time <65 Mya).

What do you think the difference is?

sorry but so far it seems that you are the one who need to learn about that topic.

I've studied biological evolution and population genetics in University. I'm comfortable with my knowledge of the subject.

When and where have you studied it?

 

[xianghua]

Can it? The multiverse is a hypothesis and I am not sure that it even suggests that there could be an infinite number of universes.+

so what? no one can refute that option and thus any one can solve it by a multiverse.

 

[Speedwell]

how no? a creature with a genome that is identical to a cat genome isnt a cat?

Not necessarily. It would depend on its ancestry. In any case, there is no such thing as a single "cat" genome as no two cats have identical genomes.

 

[xianghua]

Sure, the latter is possible because there is nothing requiring all dinosaurs to have gone extinct. But that is different than humans appearing before a dinosaur fossil (or even at the same time <65 Mya).

What do you think the difference is?

great. the tetrapod case is basically very similar to the the dino example. the first tetrapod predate many of the suppose transitional fossils. even some scientists aware about this problem:

"Prof. Narkiewicz, co-author of the article on the Zachelmie trackways, claimed that the Polish discovery has disproved the theory that elpistostegids were the ancestors of tetrapods"

this is because the first tetrapod cant predate the transitional fossil between fish and tetrapod. but this is what we actually find. and what biologists do in such a case? one option is to push back the origin of tetrapods. but we also need to push back the origin of all of these suppose transitional links.