First Century Christian Church records doctrinal error springing up from within repeatedly.

[BobRyan]

The New Testament writers - tell of a first century church lead by the Apostles and holding the Bible , scripture as the infallible standard of truth AND YET also having a great struggle with the fact that the Church itself was the source of many doctrinal errors arising repeatedly. With the warning that after the Apostle's departure even more error would be springing up from within the church.

============================================================

Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore, be on the alert,

>>apostasy was to arise from WITHIN the church according to Acts 20

1 Tim 1:3 Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to useless speculation rather than advance the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now. 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith. 6 Some people have strayed from these things and have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

18 This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, 19 keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

>>Blasphemers arise from within the church - and are handed over to satan - but not "exterminated" like Lateran IV commanded.

3 John 1
9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us (Apostles) with malicious words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brothers either, and he forbids those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.

>>> "The church" casting out those who believe the Apostles's teaching --

The church predicted as going into apostasy 2 Thess 2 -

2 Thess 2: Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, a
"deduced" by "some" via "Extreme inference" is not the same as "taught by the writer"

So then Paul himself subject to "sola scriptura testing"

"They studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things taught by the apostle Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11

Gal 1:6-9 "Though WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from HEAVEN should teach a different doctrine a different gospel other than has been taught - let him be accursed!" - Gal 1:6-9

>>-- rank means nothing - it is the pure truth , pure doctrine that matters according to the Apostle Paul in Gal 1.

History shows that even Popes accuse fellow popes of being "antichrist" as history show.

IN the NT we see the many errors that they were facing - as coming from within the church of the first century -

Jude 1:
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


8 Yet in the same way these people also, dreaming, defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak abusively of angelic majesties. 9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him an abusive judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these people disparage all the things that they do not understand; and all the things that they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have given themselves up to the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are the ones who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, like shepherds caring only for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, churning up their own shameful deeds like dirty foam; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.

>> shepherds in the church teaching false doctrine vs 12

... 16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.


Titus 1:
7 For the overseer (Elder) must be beyond reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not overindulging in wine, not a bully, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, self-controlled, righteous, holy, disciplined, 9 holding firmly the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.

10 For there are many rebellious people, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of dishonest gain.



Instead of NO false doctrine being taught - what we see is tons of false doctrine being taught in the first century church and a great struggle to try and keep it from getting out of hand. How much more so when the apostles themselves had died off.


=============================

The NT writers present the NT age as one of strife and contention and false doctrine arising from WITHIN the church

 

[HTacianas]

The New Testament writers - tell of a first century church lead by the Apostles and holding the Bible , scripture as the infallible standard of truth AND YET also having a great struggle with the fact that the Church itself was the source of many doctrinal errors arising repeatedly. With the warning that after the Apostle's departure even more error would be springing up from within the church.

============================================================

Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore, be on the alert,

>>apostasy was to arise from WITHIN the church according to Acts 20

1 Tim 1:3 Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to useless speculation rather than advance the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now. 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith. 6 Some people have strayed from these things and have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

18 This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, 19 keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

>>Blasphemers arise from within the church - and are handed over to satan - but not "exterminated" like Lateran IV commanded.

3 John 1
9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us (Apostles) with malicious words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brothers either, and he forbids those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.

>>> "The church" casting out those who believe the Apostles's teaching --

The church predicted as going into apostasy 2 Thess 2 -

2 Thess 2: Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, a
"deduced" by "some" via "Extreme inference" is not the same as "taught by the writer"

So then Paul himself subject to "sola scriptura testing"

"They studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things taught by the apostle Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11

Gal 1:6-9 "Though WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from HEAVEN should teach a different doctrine a different gospel other than has been taught - let him be accursed!" - Gal 1:6-9

>>-- rank means nothing - it is the pure truth , pure doctrine that matters according to the Apostle Paul in Gal 1.

History shows that even Popes accuse fellow popes of being "antichrist" as history show.

IN the NT we see the many errors that they were facing - as coming from within the church of the first century -

Jude 1:
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


8 Yet in the same way these people also, dreaming, defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak abusively of angelic majesties. 9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him an abusive judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these people disparage all the things that they do not understand; and all the things that they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have given themselves up to the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are the ones who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, like shepherds caring only for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, churning up their own shameful deeds like dirty foam; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.

>> shepherds in the church teaching false doctrine vs 12

... 16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.


Titus 1:
7 For the overseer (Elder) must be beyond reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not overindulging in wine, not a bully, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, self-controlled, righteous, holy, disciplined, 9 holding firmly the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.

10 For there are many rebellious people, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of dishonest gain.



Instead of NO false doctrine being taught - what we see is tons of false doctrine being taught in the first century church and a great struggle to try and keep it from getting out of hand. How much more so when the apostles themselves had died off.


=============================

The NT writers present the NT age as one of strife and contention and false doctrine arising from WITHIN the church

There were all sorts of heresies floating around in the first century. If you know what they were it makes it easy to see the polemics against them written in the new testament. Thankfully the Church was able to weed them out and preserve the teachings of the apostles.

 

[BobRyan]

There were all sorts of heresies floating around in the first century. If you know what they were it makes it easy to see the polemics against them written in the new testament. Thankfully the Church was able to weed them out and preserve the teachings of the apostles.

As the OP notes - the Apostles predicted a lot of error would follow including outright apostasy. The only solution was to be careful and watch for it.

But it was soooo bad as the first century was ending - that as John points out -- christians were being expelled from Christian churches because they held to the pure teaching of the Apostles.

This means that the extreme claims that nothing could go wrong 200 or 300 years after the Apostles passed away -- is an example of not paying close attention to what the first century apostles warned us about.

What is more -- Mark 7:7-13 is the only solution that works - and Christ demonstrates how it is done.

 

[concretecamper]

The New Testament writers - tell of a first century church lead by the Apostles and holding the Bible , scripture as the infallible standard of truth AND YET also having a great struggle with the fact that the Church itself was the source of many doctrinal errors arising repeatedly. With the warning that after the Apostle's departure even more error would be springing up from within the church.

============================================================

Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore, be on the alert,

>>apostasy was to arise from WITHIN the church according to Acts 20

1 Tim 1:3 Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to useless speculation rather than advance the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now. 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith. 6 Some people have strayed from these things and have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

18 This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, 19 keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

>>Blasphemers arise from within the church - and are handed over to satan - but not "exterminated" like Lateran IV commanded.

3 John 1
9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us (Apostles) with malicious words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brothers either, and he forbids those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.

>>> "The church" casting out those who believe the Apostles's teaching --

The church predicted as going into apostasy 2 Thess 2 -

2 Thess 2: Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, a
"deduced" by "some" via "Extreme inference" is not the same as "taught by the writer"

So then Paul himself subject to "sola scriptura testing"

"They studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things taught by the apostle Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11

Gal 1:6-9 "Though WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from HEAVEN should teach a different doctrine a different gospel other than has been taught - let him be accursed!" - Gal 1:6-9

>>-- rank means nothing - it is the pure truth , pure doctrine that matters according to the Apostle Paul in Gal 1.

History shows that even Popes accuse fellow popes of being "antichrist" as history show.

IN the NT we see the many errors that they were facing - as coming from within the church of the first century -

Jude 1:
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


8 Yet in the same way these people also, dreaming, defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak abusively of angelic majesties. 9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him an abusive judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these people disparage all the things that they do not understand; and all the things that they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have given themselves up to the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are the ones who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, like shepherds caring only for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, churning up their own shameful deeds like dirty foam; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.

>> shepherds in the church teaching false doctrine vs 12

... 16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.


Titus 1:
7 For the overseer (Elder) must be beyond reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not overindulging in wine, not a bully, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, self-controlled, righteous, holy, disciplined, 9 holding firmly the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.

10 For there are many rebellious people, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of dishonest gain.



Instead of NO false doctrine being taught - what we see is tons of false doctrine being taught in the first century church and a great struggle to try and keep it from getting out of hand. How much more so when the apostles themselves had died off.


=============================

The NT writers present the NT age as one of strife and contention and false doctrine arising from WITHIN the church

Thank God for the Church. This is a fine example of how looking to Tradition is needed to keep pure the Word of God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

.

 

[BobRyan]

Thank God for the Church. This is a fine example of how looking to Tradition is needed to keep pure the Word of God.

I quoted nothing in that post said "they relied on tradition to keep the Word of God pure"

In fact in Gal 1:6-9 Paul says that "though we (Apostles) or an Angel from heaven bring to you a different doctrine , a different gospel, let him be accursed".

So much so that when Paul spoke in Acts 17 "They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul -- were SO" Acts 17:11

2 Tim 3:16 does not say "All tradition is inspired by God and to be used for doctrine"
RATHER it says "All SCRIPTURE is inspired by God AND to be used for doctrine"


that Christians are to kill/exterminate/torture/steal from fellow Christians if there is a doctrinal difference between them

Some people fully embrace the sola-scriptura method of testing of all tradition,doctrine and practice that Christ uses in Mark 7 -- others reject it.


The NT teaching of Christ shows the traditions and commandments of men - slam hammered by the Word of God "sola scriptura testing" style.

Mark 7:7-12
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’

11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother,

13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

 

[concretecamper]

I quoted nothing in that post said "they relied on tradition to keep the Word of God pure"

You would never admit to it, but the answer to your post is Sacred Tradition.

Mark 7:7-12
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

Ok, I'll wash my hands before eating meals, anything else you want us all to do?

 

[concretecamper]

2 Tim 3:16 does not say "All tradition is inspired by God and to be used for doctrine"
RATHER it says "All SCRIPTURE is inspired by God AND to be used for doctrine"

Paul is referring to the Tanahk. Jesus commands us to listen to the Church. You can't get around this obvious fact.

 

[DragonFox91]

Are there specific doctrines you have in mind? Why do you think the Church was stumbling so much if they were all set up by the Apostles?

 

[The Liturgist]

There were all sorts of heresies floating around in the first century. If you know what they were it makes it easy to see the polemics against them written in the new testament. Thankfully the Church was able to weed them out and preserve the teachings of the apostles.

Indeed so, including the original Gnosticism of Simon Magus, the Docetism of Cerinthus, the Nicolaitan Gnostics, and those who demanded the retention of Jewish customs like circumcision, and around the end of the century was when Marcion popped up like some poisonous mushroom.

 

[The Liturgist]

Thank God for the Church. This is a fine example of how looking to Tradition is needed to keep pure the Word of God.

Amen to that.

 

[The Liturgist]

Paul is referring to the Tanahk. Jesus commands us to listen to the Church. You can't get around this obvious fact.

A point further emphasized by St. Paul himself in Galatians 1:8-9 and more explicitly in 2 Thessalonians 2:15. Nuda scriptura, the combination of perspicuity of Scripture and sufficiency of Scripture that is commonly confused with Sola Scriptura*


*This doctrine is not terribly far removed from our own centralization of scripture within tradition insofar as it embraces tradition, which is why the theology expressed by our Lutheran friends like @MarkRohfrietsch and @ViaCrucis and our Anglican friends like @Shane R and @Philip_B exist in the same traditional theological continuum as Catholics, Assyrians, and Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy. Indeed probably the best Traditional Latin Mass in London is served at an Anglican parish, St. Magnus the Martyr. And Bach’s Lutheran church music was intended for use in the Latin language, at a small chapel in Prussia and later at the Thomaskirche and Nicohlaskirche, the two main churches of Leipzig, the music of which Bach was responsible for as Thomaskantor.

 

[HTacianas]

Indeed so, including the original Gnosticism of Simon Magus, the Docetism of Cerinthus, the Nicolaitan Gnostics, and those who demanded the retention of Jewish customs like circumcision, and around the end of the century was when Marcion popped up like some poisonous mushroom.

Yet the Church prevailed. Just like Jesus said:

Mat 16:18...I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The New Testament writers - tell of a first century church lead by the Apostles and holding the Bible , scripture as the infallible standard of truth AND YET also having a great struggle with the fact that the Church itself was the source of many doctrinal errors arising repeatedly. With the warning that after the Apostle's departure even more error would be springing up from within the church.

You do know, I hope, that the infallible standard of truth is God, and that scripture is useful for godly people to be trained in righteousness. Scripture is intended to be used to train candidates for holy office in the Church, but it is the Church that is the ground and pillar of truth. So, despite the written and more or less unchanging content of scripture, it is a source for many deeply erroneous interpretations that heretics used to trouble the Church for centuries and which heretics continue to use for that purpose right up to our own time. Heresies such as sola fide, sola scriptura, legalism of various sorts, claims to be prophets, apostles, and seers of various kinds, heretics have written works that are claimed to be inspired revelation by God, some have additional testaments allegedly given to their founders, people such as Mary Baker Eddy, Ellen White, Joseph Smith, and others who claim to be God's "mouthpiece", such as the governing body of Jehovah's witnesses. Scripture alone has never been able to ward off the false claims of its interpreters. Without the Church to sift the claims, adjudicate on the contents of the interpretations, and decide between contesting varieties of teaching we'd all be hopelessly divided into thousands of religions all claiming to be in receipt of divine wisdom that proves all of our contradictory claims. I guess that explains why there are so many denominations contending against one another.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The Catholic Church tells us that heretics come from within the Church. Arius was a Bishop, I believe that Pelagius was part of the Church. Martin Luther was a priest. Calvin started out in the Church. Modern day leaders of rebellion include Teilhard de Chardin, Hans Kung, Marcel Lefebvre, Thomas Merton, Charles Curran. There are rebels in her, but so what? We are told the gates of hell will not prevail, but that does not mean that Satan is not trying with fury. He tries yet the Church remains. We do not look at the men in her, rather the teaching, the faith once delivered to the saints. Those that maintain humility and listen to the voice of Christ prevail.

If what you say is true, Bob, we would expect the SDA to have the purest doctrine around. You should keep all the commandments, but every so called church that has left the Catholic Church has allowed its doctrine to change and go astray while they remain steadfast in their reason for rebellion.

We have only to look on Christ’s teaching about sexual morality and find that no Protestant upholds it, NONE. For 1900 years, all of Christendom had taught that contraception was sinful. Then in 1930, over the objections of Pope Pius XI, the Anglican Church taught that contraception was acceptable for married couples, and then all Protestants followed suit. The teaching has even deceived Catholics and there was a time, when many thought the Church would change, but PaulVI wrote Humanae Vitae, upholding Church teaching. Many rebelled and fell away or remained and tried to pervert Church teaching.

Jesus said that if any man look on a woman to lust after her, he has committed adultery in his heart. That begs the question, how then should we look on a woman? She is your Mother, sister, daughter, Aunt, cousin, wife, the mother of your children. We look on women with proper dignity. If she is not the mother of my children, I have no reason to look on her sexually. If she is the mother of my children, I have no reason to treat her as if she is not. She deserves proper dignity and respect. Contraception would allow me to use her as an object, and it allows a woman to use a man in the same way. Wives are no longer subject to their husbands as God commands, but are now free to destroy masculinity. Husbands no longer need love their wives, but are made to dance around like fools to beg for her sexual favors. Contraception has destroyed the family, and clouded the judgement of all who practice it.
We no longer understand what marriage is or even who men and women are.

Romans 1 tells us what happens when we leave the natural use of the woman, which is procreation in the bonds of holy matrimony. A man is supposed to love his wife and give himself for her as Christ loved the Church. I realize that it is very hard to do that when sex is not properly part of the marriage, rather a favor to be given and withheld. That is not godly behavior. Churches do not teach it any more, and the SDA actively promotes contraception in the name of stewardship. It fell prey to the satanic lie that following the laws of God would destroy the earth. Population explosion, ozone layer, global
warming, don’t follow Gods command to be fruitful and multiply, humans are bad for the earth, kill them amy way you can, abortion , euthanasia, war, famine. Don’t listen to God, follow Satan’s advice and the earth will be fine. What a load of filth. Woe to him who calls the evil good and the good evil.

Who cares if you live like Satan and clean up the earth. So what? You still have to face God at death and tell Him why you did it. Oh but Lord, if we had listened to you, we would have destroyed the Earth. Let me know how that goes, do I hear the sound of stewards wailing and gnashing their teeth? All these modern woes can be traced back to the decision to abandon God and follow contraception
You may say that Francis is a liberal Pope and wants to Change Church teaching. It hasn’t happened and it won’t happen. We can see the Holy Spirit restraining him in his latest decrees
Women will not be priests and God cannot bless sin. Francis wanted to counter traditionalist that have gone too far, like the Church that forgot her first love. Homosexuals are your brothers and sisters, they are hurting because they have followed the lie that sexual pleasure leads to bliss. It does not. Sex for pleasures sake is like a drug one can never get enough of. That is why Christians are to mortify the deeds of the flesh
In God’s kingdom there is neither gay, nor straight, only the Chaste. The unchaste are in darkness, and a man that uses contraception is no different with respect to the law of God than a homosexual, they both are in mortal sin and must repent

Out brothers and sisters are hurting. We as Christians need to obey the law of God, fast and pray, call them back to the truth. They will not be convinced by our words, yet if we obey God, they will see the good that we do and give glory to
God

 

[The Liturgist]

Arius was a Bishop,

Actually, Arius was a priest, not a bishop, in the Patriarchal archdiocese of Alexandria. He was deposed by St. Alexander of Alexandria, but continued to promote his heresy, and the controversy from this resulted in St. Constantine convening the FIrst Ecumenical Synod in Nicaea. At Nicaea, the protodeacon of St. Alexander of Alexandria, St. Athanasius the Great, successfully prosecuted Arius for heresy, and the council by a unanimous vote anathematized Arius and Arianism.

However, there was a bishop who supported the idea of Arianism who was not present at the council, Eusebius of Nicomedia, whose connivances resulted in communion being restored to Arius, to the horror of the Orthodox Catholic Christians, but Arius died in the lavatory of the Hagia Sophia before having the chance to receive the Eucharist of a severe incident of diarrhea. After that, Eusebius of Nicomedia, not to be confused with the great Patristic historian Mor Eusebius of Caesarea, became the primary torchbearer for Arianism, orchestrating the arrest and exile to Trier of St. Athanasius at an Arian synod convened in the Levant on the basis of a false accusation that he murdered a layman in his diocese (the Alexandrian presbyters found the layman in question and attempted to show him, very much alive, to the council but were rebuffed), and also managed to baptize St. Constantine on his deathbed, and to convert the Emperor’s son Constantius to Arianism, which resulted in the persecution of Christians by Arians for the next several decades, until the death of Emperor Valens and the coronation of the Orthodox Emperor St. Theodosius, who not only abolished the persecution of Christians but also made Arianism illegal within the borders of the Empire (which did not stop it, as several Gothic tribes had been converted to it, one of whom, the Ostrogoths, would conquer Italy in the 7th century, which is why in Ravenna there are two ancient baptistries, one built for the Christians and another built for the Arians; the decoration is almost identical, however, the Arians depicted Christ as a beardless youth.

Also, Nestorianism was the result of an attempt by Nestorius, the Patriarch of Constantinople, to reduce Marian veneration, which he pursued in such a way as to introduce a Christological heresy.

Finally, Arius is believed to have been influenced by Lucian of Antioch who in turn was influenced by the corrupt Patriarch of Antioch, Paul of Samosata, who was deposed for what amounted to embezzlement or larceny with, unusually, the assistance of local Roman authorities; I believe this happened during what the Copts call “The Little Peace of the Church” when the persecutions stopped before resuming with a vengeance under Diocletian. Paul of Samosata is credited with being the first heresiarch to deny the deity of Christ, after a long line of Docetics who deny His humanity.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

One of the issues with regard to the epistles in the NT is undue focus. By this, I mean virtually all the epistles were written to address doctrinal and sin issues in the church. Reading the epistles is like listening to one side of a phone call without hearing the other. You are just getting the one side, and in many cases, assuming context. Some of the passages are self-explanatory. Some, I think, are not so clear. It is up to the reader to supply context. The person on the other end may be talking about chicken soup. Unless you have extensive knowledge of the people and places involved, that may be difficult for you to do. Supplying a mistaken context to a passage can cause you to miss it and miss it badly!
Another problem is one of weight. Paul or John may address an issue in one of the churches. It is not necessarily a major issue, and it may not be an issue to us at all. But because we see a whole passage or even whole chapters devoted to this subject, we naturally move any associated doctrine up the list of importance, when, in fact, it may not be an issue at all. Thus, a relatively minor issue may get inflated into a full-fledged doctrine.
So I think when reading the epistles, we have to take great care in determining both context and priority.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The New Testament writers - tell of a first century church lead by the Apostles and holding the Bible , scripture as the infallible standard of truth AND YET also having a great struggle with the fact that the Church itself was the source of many doctrinal errors arising repeatedly. With the warning that after the Apostle's departure even more error would be springing up from within the church.

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Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore, be on the alert,

>>apostasy was to arise from WITHIN the church according to Acts 20

1 Tim 1:3 Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to useless speculation rather than advance the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now. 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith. 6 Some people have strayed from these things and have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

18 This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, 19 keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

>>Blasphemers arise from within the church - and are handed over to satan - but not "exterminated" like Lateran IV commanded.

3 John 1
9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us (Apostles) with malicious words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brothers either, and he forbids those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.

>>> "The church" casting out those who believe the Apostles's teaching --

The church predicted as going into apostasy 2 Thess 2 -

2 Thess 2: Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, a
"deduced" by "some" via "Extreme inference" is not the same as "taught by the writer"

So then Paul himself subject to "sola scriptura testing"

"They studied the scriptures daily TO SEE IF those things taught by the apostle Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11

Gal 1:6-9 "Though WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from HEAVEN should teach a different doctrine a different gospel other than has been taught - let him be accursed!" - Gal 1:6-9

>>-- rank means nothing - it is the pure truth , pure doctrine that matters according to the Apostle Paul in Gal 1.

History shows that even Popes accuse fellow popes of being "antichrist" as history show.

IN the NT we see the many errors that they were facing - as coming from within the church of the first century -

Jude 1:
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


8 Yet in the same way these people also, dreaming, defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak abusively of angelic majesties. 9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him an abusive judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these people disparage all the things that they do not understand; and all the things that they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have given themselves up to the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are the ones who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, like shepherds caring only for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, churning up their own shameful deeds like dirty foam; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever.

>> shepherds in the church teaching false doctrine vs 12

... 16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.


Titus 1:
7 For the overseer (Elder) must be beyond reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not overindulging in wine, not a bully, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, self-controlled, righteous, holy, disciplined, 9 holding firmly the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.

10 For there are many rebellious people, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of dishonest gain.



Instead of NO false doctrine being taught - what we see is tons of false doctrine being taught in the first century church and a great struggle to try and keep it from getting out of hand. How much more so when the apostles themselves had died off.


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The NT writers present the NT age as one of strife and contention and false doctrine arising from WITHIN the church

God told us He made one Church. I pray Father that they may be one as we are one. Paul asks, is Christ divided? From the parable of the wheat and the tares we can see that Satan will try to send his minions in order to bring the Church down .

Given that we have the promise of the Holy Spirit that the gates of hell will not prevail, and the teaching of the wheat and the tares to let them go until the judgement, schism is viewed as a grave sin against the body of Christ.

As the schismatic prayer goes My kingdom come, my will be done on Earth cause it ain’t in heaven. Give us this daily our daily wink and forgive us our pride because we sure love to accuse others and leave, and forget about temptation because we can’t see the evil.

It is better to remain in the Church and heal the body of Christ. If we have horrendous leaders as it appears now, we fast and pray and repent in dust and ashes. Are we doing that or do we just live to lament Francis until we can build up justification for schism.

If we repent, God has told us He will hear from Heaven and heal our land. If all we do is grumble and leave, how are we different than the Israelites that angered God and were forced to walk the desert for forty years?

 

[Markie Boy]

Having been in the Catholic Church - and now entering the season of Lent, is a great example.

Not long ago meatless Fridays were mandatory all year - and to eat a burger on Friday was mortal sin, sending one to Hell if not confessed to the priest. But - now meatless Fridays are only mandatory Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, and Fridays during Lent. So salvation is a moving target, when not going by Scripture.

On top of that, I have seen when St. Patrick's day fell on a Friday in Lent - and the bishop in one diocese gave a dispensation so his people could eat corned beef, but the next diocese over did not get that - so what was OK for one guy, was mortal sin for the other guy across the road.

Try to teach that to kids that are young and free thinkers, that have not been programmed "how" to think yet - and they look at you like you are nuts.

 

[The Liturgist]

and to eat a burger on Friday was mortal sin,

Really? That seems unusual. Gluttony is a mortal sin but there have always been scenarios where the Lenten fast does not apply. At least in Orthodoxy, it does not apply to persons who are sick, traveling or receiving a meal as someone’s guest.