Fire Judgement

[Waterwerx]

I believe most of the carnage you read about in Revelation is caused by mankind. Many of the judgments are cause & effect.

Jeremiah 6:22-24
22. Thus says the Lord:
“Behold, a people comes from the north country,
And a great nation will be raised from the farthest parts of the earth.
23. They will lay hold on bow and spear;
They are cruel and have no mercy;
Their voice roars like the sea;
And they ride on horses,
As men of war set in array against you, O daughter of Zion.”
24. We have heard the report of it;
Our hands grow feeble.
Anguish has taken hold of us,
Pain as of a woman in labor.
Jeremiah 50:41-43
41. “Behold, a people shall come from the north, And a great nation and many kings Shall be raised up from the ends of the earth.
42. They shall hold the bow and the lance; They are cruel and shall not show mercy. Their voice shall roar like the sea; They shall ride on horses, Set in array, like a man for the battle, Against you, O daughter of Babylon.
43. “The king of Babylon has heard the report about them, And his hands grow feeble; Anguish has taken hold of him, Pangs as of a woman in childbirth.

Same wording, same direction in relation to Jerusalem, same weapons(same Hebrew word is used for "spear" and "lance"), same time frame. It's also involving the same aggressive confederation of nations
when you compare Jeremiah 51:27 (Ararat, Minni, and Ashkenaz) and the nations mentioned in Ezekiel 38:3-6 .
The logical conclusion is that they're all describing the same event(s) from a different perspective.

Given the fact that there is a war going on during this time that increases in scope, I can clearly see how one third of the earth is burned by the use of nuclear weapons as opposed to some huge CME, or a series of comets/asteroids striking the earth. Although a nuclear war will wipe out a lot of people and make life miserable during this time, God won't allow it to completely destroy everything.

 

[keras]

Although a nuclear war will wipe out a lot of people and make life miserable during this time, God won't allow it to completely destroy everything.

God will not allow a nuke war, especially in His holy Land.

Nuclear and all weapons of war are neutralized and armies are destroyed by a CME, that the Lord will instigate on His Day of wrath:

Amos 5:9 The Lord flashes forth destruction upon the strongholds of the powerful nations.

Zephaniah 1:16 A Day of battle cries against fortified cities.

Isaiah 30:25-30 ....on the Day of massacre, when fortresses fall….The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength....The Lord’s arm will descend in His fierce anger, with devouring flames of fire…..

Deuteronomy 32:22 For fire is kindled by My wrath, it burns to the realms of death below. [weapons stored underground] It devours the earth and its harvest and penetrates to the foundations of the mountains. [The electromagnetic pulse effect of huge coronal mass ejection.]

Jeremiah 25:32 Disaster spreads from nation to nation, [as the earth rotates] a mighty storm of military destruction comes.

Psalm 46:9 In all the world, He breaks the bow, snaps the spear and burns the shields in the fire.

Jeremiah 50:22-27 See how the hammer of the world is shattered. The Lord has opened His armoury, the weapons of His wrath to do His work in the land of the Babylonians. [the godless peoples] Put all warriors to the sword, lead them to slaughter, for their time has come.

Amos 2:14-16 ....the warrior will not save himself, on that Day they will all throw away their weapons and run, but they cannot escape.
Proverbs 12:12 The strongholds of the wicked crumble like clay.

Psalm 76:3 The Lord has broken the flashing arrows [nukes] and all weapons of war.

Ezekiel 7:14 The trumpet has sounded, but no one goes to war, for their actions have called forth My wrath. [An attack on Israel by the Islamic peoples. Psalms 83]

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Isaiah 34:2 The Lord’s anger is against all the nations, His wrath is against their armed forces, they will be slaughtered, their dead will stink.

Hosea 10:13-14.....because you have trusted in your chariots and in the number of your warriors, destruction will arise against your people [Israel and the Western nations.] and all your fortresses will be overthrown. [military power destroyed]

Hosea 2:18..... I shall break the bow and sword, I shall sweep all weapons of war off the earth, so that My people may lie down without fear.

Haggai 2:21-22 I shall shake the heavens and the earth, shall overthrow the thrones of kings, break the power of the heathen realms, overturn chariots, horses and riders will fall. [armies] Fear will cause them to fight amongst themselves.

Micah 5:10-11 On that Day, I shall slaughter your horses and burn your chariots and raze your [military] fortifications to the ground.

Jeremiah 49:35 I shall break the bow of Elam, [Iran] the chief weapon of their might. [bow and arrows, military code names for nuclear weapons]

 

[Waterwerx]

God will not allow a nuke war, especially in His holy Land.

Nuclear and all weapons of war are neutralized and armies are destroyed by a CME, that the Lord will instigate on His Day of wrath:

Amos 5:9 The Lord flashes forth destruction upon the strongholds of the powerful nations.

Zephaniah 1:16 A Day of battle cries against fortified cities.

Isaiah 30:25-30 ....on the Day of massacre, when fortresses fall….The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength....The Lord’s arm will descend in His fierce anger, with devouring flames of fire…..

Deuteronomy 32:22 For fire is kindled by My wrath, it burns to the realms of death below. [weapons stored underground] It devours the earth and its harvest and penetrates to the foundations of the mountains. [The electromagnetic pulse effect of huge coronal mass ejection.]

Jeremiah 25:32 Disaster spreads from nation to nation, [as the earth rotates] a mighty storm of military destruction comes.

Psalm 46:9 In all the world, He breaks the bow, snaps the spear and burns the shields in the fire.

Jeremiah 50:22-27 See how the hammer of the world is shattered. The Lord has opened His armoury, the weapons of His wrath to do His work in the land of the Babylonians. [the godless peoples] Put all warriors to the sword, lead them to slaughter, for their time has come.

Amos 2:14-16 ....the warrior will not save himself, on that Day they will all throw away their weapons and run, but they cannot escape.
Proverbs 12:12 The strongholds of the wicked crumble like clay.

Psalm 76:3 The Lord has broken the flashing arrows [nukes] and all weapons of war.

Ezekiel 7:14 The trumpet has sounded, but no one goes to war, for their actions have called forth My wrath. [An attack on Israel by the Islamic peoples. Psalms 83]

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Isaiah 34:2 The Lord’s anger is against all the nations, His wrath is against their armed forces, they will be slaughtered, their dead will stink.

Hosea 10:13-14.....because you have trusted in your chariots and in the number of your warriors, destruction will arise against your people [Israel and the Western nations.] and all your fortresses will be overthrown. [military power destroyed]

Hosea 2:18..... I shall break the bow and sword, I shall sweep all weapons of war off the earth, so that My people may lie down without fear.

Haggai 2:21-22 I shall shake the heavens and the earth, shall overthrow the thrones of kings, break the power of the heathen realms, overturn chariots, horses and riders will fall. [armies] Fear will cause them to fight amongst themselves.

Micah 5:10-11 On that Day, I shall slaughter your horses and burn your chariots and raze your [military] fortifications to the ground.

Jeremiah 49:35 I shall break the bow of Elam, [Iran] the chief weapon of their might. [bow and arrows, military code names for nuclear weapons]

And I suppose you're one of them that disregards the fact that God uses both nature and man as agents of destruction. You seem to have this fixation with "Coronal Mass Ejections" and like selectively plugging it into Scripture. It sounds to me like you read too much stuff from pseudo-science websites and then try to regurgitate it here as Gospel.

First of all, CME's do not generate E1 pulses. E1 pulses are produced by nuclear detonations, which is what affects all unprotected electronics, even the electronics not connected to a power grid.
Secondly, CME's affect the power grids, the devices connected to it, and unprotected electronics in space that are orbiting the earth. They do not have the potential to fry "all" electronics like an EMP would.

Thirdly, to say "all" nuclear weapons are neutralized by a CME is just simply asinine. Refer back to the above blue text. The only nuclear weapons that could "potentially" be affected by a CME are the ones that have been launched and are traveling through space(i.e. outside of Earth's atmosphere) when a CME hits. CME's don't just spontaneously hit our planet without warning, either.

God will not allow a nuke war...

No, you believe God will not allow a nuke war based on the reasoning of pseudo-science and/or fantasy. Obviously your idea or theory of nuclear warfare requires everything be destroyed and that the nuclear powers involved are mostly using cobalt bombs or similarly salted nuclear weapons detonated on or just below the ground. Every square mile of earth will be covered by lethal radiation as a result and kill every living thing, so God can't allow a nuclear war.

You do not seem to know much about nuclear weapons beyond what has been scared up in the past by the media & some of the environmentalists. With the way some people talk about the subject, you would think the nuclear powers have every 10-20 square miles of their enemy's country targeted with a nuclear weapon, which just isn't the case.

 

[keras]

And I suppose you're one of them that disregards the fact that God uses both nature and man as agents of destruction. You seem to have this fixation with "Coronal Mass Ejections" and like selectively plugging it into Scripture.

God has usually used nature and man to fulfil His purposes. He will do so again, on His Day of wrath, with an explosion of the sun: a CME of unprecedented magnitude. This being a seemingly natural event, it will still allow the godless people to continue in their atheism.

Secondly, CME's affect the power grids, the devices connected to it, and unprotected electronics in space that are orbiting the earth. They do not have the potential to fry "all" electronics like an EMP would.

A Massive CME, like what is prophesied, will induce very high voltage in all metal conductors. Electrical transmission lines, pipelines and even fences. Even appliances switched off, but still plugged in; will be burned out.

No, you believe God will not allow a nuke war based on the reasoning of pseudo-science and/or fantasy.

I base my understanding on the Bible. Do you call Hosea 2:18, Haggai 2:21-22, Amos 5:9, Jeremiah 25:32, Psalms 76:3 and many others: fantasy?

 

[Waterwerx]

God has usually used nature and man to fulfil His purposes. He will do so again, on His Day of wrath, with an explosion of the sun: a CME of unprecedented magnitude. This being a seemingly natural event, it will still allow the godless people to continue in their atheism.

A Massive CME, like what is prophesied, will induce very high voltage in all metal conductors. Electrical transmission lines, pipelines and even fences. Even appliances switched off, but still plugged in; will be burned out.

I base my understanding on the Bible. Do you call Hosea 2:18, Haggai 2:21-22, Amos 5:9, Jeremiah 25:32, Psalms 76:3 and many others: fantasy?

No, you base your understanding on pseudo-science and end up using those Scriptures erroneously, not to mention ignoring a bunch of others relating to the tribulation.

You said in the previous post,

Nuclear and all weapons of war are neutralized and armies are destroyed by a CME, that the Lord will instigate on His Day of wrath:

Then you contradict yourself in the following post:

A Massive CME, like what is prophesied, will induce very high voltage in all metal conductors. Electrical transmission lines, pipelines and even fences. Even appliances switched off, but still plugged in; will be burned out.

Which would have no affect/impact on the functionality of nuclear weapons. What you're presenting is exactly what I said: fantasy. Please refer yourself to the nearest college and invest in some astrophysics courses.

 

[keras]

No, you base your understanding on pseudo-science and end up using those Scriptures erroneously, not to mention ignoring a bunch of others relating to the tribulation.

Is Heliophysics, branch of NASA, a pseudo science? We do have much information from intensive research of the sun and the SOHO satellites watching it continuously.
Richard Fisher is [was?] their Director. He said: it isn't a matter of will the sun strike the earth, it a matter of when and we will be sent back into the dark age.

Which would have no affect/impact on the functionality of nuclear weapons.

I prefer to go by what the Bible prophets tell us. Jeremiah 49:35 said: The Lord says: I shall break the bow of Elam, [Iran] the chief weapon of their might.
A massive EMP would cause an armed nuke missile to explode on the launch pad.
Deuteronomy 32:34-3 I have in My storehouse, waiting for the Day of punishment and vengeance, for the moment when their foot slips, [makes a mistake; the mistake of attacking Israel]...their doom is fast approaching.

 

[Waterwerx]

I prefer to go by what the Bible prophets tell us. Jeremiah 49:35 said: The Lord says: I shall break the bow of Elam, [Iran] the chief weapon of their might.
A massive EMP would cause an armed nuke missile to explode on the launch pad.

This pseudo-science, for example(see the above underlined red text quoted from your post). Your puerile commentaries/responses just simply reinforces that you lack credibility regarding science in general and have a disdain towards any established facts that completely debunks your "It must be a CME!!!" theory.

No, my obtuse friend, you prefer adding your own ideas, no matter how nonsensical they are, and plugging it into Scripture.

 

[keras]

We shall see soon enough. I have plenty of Bible prophesy to prove what the Lord will do. Objections without proper rebuttal are simply the ranting of fools.

Isaiah 28:21 The Lord will arise as He did on Mt Perazim, [1 Chronicles 14:11] and storm with rage as He did in the valley of Gibeon, [Joshua 10:9-15] to do what He must do, to perform a strange and alien task.

Isaiah 29:5 Suddenly, in an instant the horde of your enemies will crumble into dust, punishment will come from the Lord, with thunder, earthquakes, with storm and tempest and flames of devouring fire.

Isaiah 13:6-13 Cry out: for the Day of the Lord is at hand, it will come in a mighty destruction. Fear will grip everyone, men will lose courage at the coming disaster. That cruel Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath is coming to reduce all the earth to a desolation and to destroy the evil and godless people on it. It will be a Day of darkness, on the day that the Lord brings disaster onto the world and due punishment to the wicked. He will put an end to arrogance and will humble the pride of the ruthless. Humans will become as scarce as fine gold, on the Day that the heavens will be moved and the earth shaken from its place, at the wrath of the Lord, in the Day of His blazing anger. Ref. REB, some verses abridged.

As Isaiah tells us: The Lord has in the past acted to destroy His enemies and now: once again, He will take action and perform His fiery punishment.

Isaiah 42:14 Long have I restrained Myself…now I groan like a woman in labour. I shall lay to waste the earth and cause the streams and lakes to dry up. Isaiah 59:18, Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 64:1-2, Psalms 68:1-2, Jer. 12:14, Deuteronomy 32:26-35

The Lord will arise, to perform a strange task – to punish His enemies, the attackers of Israel and to humble the godless.
Punishment will come from the Lord – not a nuclear war or anything instigated by man, but God instigated, triggered by an Islamic attack onto Israel. Isaiah 21:2 & 22:6

Suddenly, in an instant – This is the event that ‘will come like a thief’, unexpectedly.
earthquakes – Earthquakes will be caused by the microwave effect of the electromagnetic pulse in a massive coronal mass ejection. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1

devouring fire – The fireball of the high temperature cosmic particles of a CME.
the Day of the Lord is at hand – This is the logical result of most of mankind’s rejection of God and His Laws. Hebrews 10:27
Fear will grip everyone – This sudden and shocking event will terrify all those people unaware of God’s plans. Ezekiel 7:15-19

a mighty destruction, to reduce the earth to desolation – A worldwide disaster.

a day of darkness – The approaching mass from the sun obscures it, also smoke from city and forest fires and ash from volcanoes.
Humans will become scarce – Millions will die from the initial strike and millions more from famine and the fighting afterward. Jeremiah 9:22
the heavens move – the magnetosphere and the atmosphere will be pushed aside at the impact area. 2 Peter 3:10, Rev. 6:14

the earth will shake from its place – the hit from this CME may cause the earth’s orbit to speed up, thereby giving us a 360 day year, which is the prophetic year. Isaiah 24:1

His blazing anger – It is appropriate that the Lord will use the sun, our life sustainer, to judge mankind. Deut.32:34-35 A CME solar flare perfectly and literally fulfils all the prophesied effects, but it will quickly pass by, leaving the world to recover. A world that will never be the same again and the stage will be set for all the other prophesied things to happen before the Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.

 

[Waterwerx]

Objections without proper rebuttal are simply the ranting of fools.

I've already pointed out to you what both CME's and EMP's do and what they don't do. Its not my problem if you refuse to take any time to do some actual research, for example:
Could an extremely powerful solar flare destroy all the electronics on Earth?

Ch. 1: The Dangers from Nuclear Weapons: Myths and Facts - Nuclear War Survival Skills

Then maybe you wouldn't be posting utter nonsense like this:

the earth will shake from its place – the hit from this CME may cause the earth’s orbit to speed up, thereby giving us a 360 day year, which is the prophetic year.

I was a 54B-L5 in the US Army and served part of my enlistment time as an NBC NCO during the first Gulf War in an infantry unit before continuing on into an NBC Reconnaissance unit. So don't try to tell me and everyone else here that a nuclear war can't or won't happen because you falsely believe it will destroy everyone and everything. I know the weapons, what they do, and how they are deployed.
You can keep quoting all the Scripture you want and plugging in silly ideas like above, but its not going to change the facts.

 

[keras]

I've already pointed out to you what both CME's and EMP's do and what they don't do.

My research is valid, scientists do say that a big CME will send us back to 1800's technology. We are so reliant on electricity in our modern lifestyle, that to lose the supply, even for a week; let alone years, will cause massive disruption. But the main proof for this happening, is the over 100 Bible prophesies, carefully described and detailed about this forthcoming worldwide disaster, that can and will be literally fulfilled by a CME of unprecedented magnitude. Your calling this truth; 'a silly idea', simply places you in the category of a scoffer, just as 2 Peter 3:1-7 says.
There is no way that a nuke war could fulfil all the earth effects, let alone the cosmic signs that are clearly prophesied to happen on the forthcoming Lord's Day of wrath.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

My research is valid, scientists do say that a big CME will send us back to 1800's technology.

But the main proof for this happening, is the over 100 Bible prophesies, carefully described and detailed about this forthcoming worldwide disaster, that can and will be literally fulfilled by a CME of unprecedented magnitude.

Matthew 24:21-22King James Version (KJV)
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Neither of your arguments are remotely consistent with Jesus's description of the tribulation.

 

[keras]

Neither of your arguments are remotely consistent with Jesus's description of the tribulation.

No, That is because I am not talking about The Great Tribulation of the Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls.
The worldwide disaster I am referring to is the Sixth Seal. Revelation has a plain sequence of events: The first Five Seals; already opened, as we know from history, soon to come is the Sixth Seal, the Lord's Day of wrath, the Day Jesus stopped before, in His quote of Isaiah 61:1-2. Luke 4:18-19
It is this terrible Day that will 'come as a thief', unexpectedly and will reset the worlds civilization, preparing the way for a One World Govt, but we Christians have the Lord's promise of His protection, Acts 2:21, on that Day and then our gathering to live in all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-31, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26

 

[Erik Nelson]

Please consider the words "fire" (G4442) from "heaven" (G3772) in Revelations 20:9 = 2 Peter 3:7.

Those words make a primary allusion to:

• Luke 9:54 -- James & John ask to bring fire from heaven down on a Samaritan village "like Elias did"
• Luke 17:29 -- fire from heaven smote Sodom

Thus, the Eschatological Prophesies of the Apostles John & Simon Peter primarily echo the "fire from heaven" episodes of Elias vs. the two fifties of soldiers from apostate King Ahaziah who worshipped the pagan god Beel-zebub (2 Kings 1), and the Judgement of Sodom (Genesis 19).

Thus, the primary allusion is to apostasy, away from The LORD, to false pagan religions; and to vice, license, & sin. The usual picture of "fire from heaven" consuming Sodom and the soldiers facing Elijah resembles that of a meteor shower impact event:

The Apostle Simon Peter states that the event will have enough energy to boil away earth's oceans:

There are ~1.4 billion cubic kilometers of water & ice on earth, vaporizing which would require approximately 4e28 J of energy, equivalent to ~10 Sun-seconds (the whole entire Solar power flux focused on planet earth for ten seconds).

Such a fate will befall earth because humans will forsake "The LORD" for false religions & idols (King Ahaziah vs. Elijah), and so degenerate into wanton sinfulness (Sodom). Such could be brought about, by a train of cometary or asteroidal debris impacting the planet -- as already occurred on Jupiter in 1994 (comet Schumaker-Levy 9 which released ~4e23 J of energy).



In addition, a secondary allusion, from those primary references, may be to "northern Kingdom Israelites" and their "Samaritan" descendants.

According to the NIV First Century Study Bible, Israelites & Samaritans had been harassing Judaeans for 800 years, since the days of the Israelite invasion of king Ahaz in the late 8th century BC. After the fall of the northern kingdom in 712 BC, the Israelites married Assyrians and so their Samaritan descendants "were considered half Jewish, or a mixed race, by other Jews". They were further despised because, in the 5th century BC, the Samaritans began building rival shrines and eventually a rival temple on Mt. Gerizim, and continued worshipping there even after Jewish king John Hyrcanus destroyed the place in 128 BC. During one Passover, Samaritans desecrated the Jerusalem Temple with scattered bones. Each side "often engaged in spats of guerrilla warfare".

So, a secondary allusion may be to "Spiritual Samaritans", who syncretize Faith with admixtures with false religious elements, and set up the same as a false alternative to Faith -- an "anti-Christian anti-Gospel" perhaps.

Moreover, a secondary allusion from "Sodom" plausibly refers back to Revelations 11:8, "the great city where their Lord was Crucified" -- namely physical 1st century AD Jerusalem of the Sadducees & Pharisees who tried to kill Jesus to prevent the Gospel from escaping their to reach gentiles. Arguably, "Gog & Magog" will be marshalled by a "synagogue of Satan" spiritually similar to those 1st century AD leaders of the physical temple of Jerusalem, which had by then become a Samaritan-like false alternative to the True Spiritual Temple of the Church.