Finding My Way

[LittleGirlLost]

I am in a really weird spot right now and I need some kind of guidance. So, my life story in a nutshell:

I grew up in a pseudo christian household, meaning that we always had some version of an understanding of God & Jesus and if we wanted to go to church it made our parents very happy, but we weren't required to do so. When I was 15, I joined the United Pentecostal Church and was in that until about 1.5 years ago. At that point I started really studying the holiness standards (no haircuts, no make up, no jewelry, only skirts on women, ect.) and determined that they weren't actually backed up by scripture. (This is not meant to debate w/ members of the UPC) Anyway, I left the UPC and started going to a non-denominational church, which I really enjoyed. However, after being asked about messianic prophecy and studying it, I determined that Jesus did not fit the messianic prophecy in the way that a Jew of his time would have understood them. I decided that God would not have told the Jews what to look for and then sent them something else, so Jesus must not have been the messiah. (Once again, this is not meant to be a debate. I'm just trying to explain where I"m coming from so that you guys can talk to me from an educated standpoint) After that, I started to look into converting to Judaism, but further study determined that if the stories in the Bible are 100% true, the God of the Bible is sort of a jerk, and not at all a God that I would think of as kind or good. Ultimately I left altogether, went through a stage of 'trying on' other religions and then became an atheist. I have been very comfortable in my atheism.

All that being said... I miss God. I just miss him. Logically, I would tend to think he doesn't exist, but my heart misses him. What I don't miss, are people telling me that if I don't look like them I am going to hell. I don't believe that the Bible is 100% infallible, but is rather a compilation of stories that are meant to guide you in the right direction. Meaning that the it's the meaning that counts as opposed to a word for word interpretion. I think that literalists are very dangerous. I don't believe that anything is wrong with homosexuality or premarital sex. I believe that the problem lies with whoring around and disrespecting yourself and/or other people. I do not believe that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus, or that Jesus remained unmarried. The latter is mostly because in his day a Jewish man who was unmarried would not be respected or even viewed as a full man, which is why all Rabbi's of that time were married.

I am very drawn to Catholocism. The main reasons are that I find the concept of saints very comforting. I am very attracted (in a spiritual sense) to the history and tradition of Catholocism. I also appreciate that Mary is seen as divine.... to me, that leaves a lot of room to teach a very powerful respect for women to my son something that I don't believe is as available in the denominations that teach all about Eve and little about Mary. The Rosary reads to me as a great form of meditation, something that I find very helpful in my daily life... more helpful than I ever found quite prayer. (I know that sounds weird, but that's how it is ) I believe that I can talk to God directly, but also like the concept of confession because of the extra guidance that it allows you.

Based on all of that, I've determined that I would like to join the Catholic church, if I go back, but I am also very, very liberal and am unsure if they would have me. I spent a long time in a church were I had to think and look and act like everyone else in order to feel comfortable and I will not join another one. I think that God made us all different because he appreciates our differences, even when those views mean that we see him differantly.

Anyway, I feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I was thinking of joining a Universalist Unitarian church, but there isn't one around. My next choice is Catholocism, but my understanding is that they are very conservative and strict, which I don't like... I just don't know what to do... Any one??

 

[Letalis]

I am very drawn to Catholocism. The main reasons are that I find the concept of saints very comforting. I am very attracted (in a spiritual sense) to the history and tradition of Catholocism. I also appreciate that Mary is seen as divine.... to me, that leaves a lot of room to teach a very powerful respect for women to my son something that I don't believe is as available in the denominations that teach all about Eve and little about Mary. The Rosary reads to me as a great form of meditation, something that I find very helpful in my daily life... more helpful than I ever found quite prayer. (I know that sounds weird, but that's how it is ) I believe that I can talk to God directly, but also like the concept of confession because of the extra guidance that it allows you.

Based on all of that, I've determined that I would like to join the Catholic church, if I go back, but I am also very, very liberal and am unsure if they would have me. I spent a long time in a church were I had to think and look and act like everyone else in order to feel comfortable and I will not join another one. I think that God made us all different because he appreciates our differences, even when those views mean that we see him differantly.

Anyway, I feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I was thinking of joining a Universalist Unitarian church, but there isn't one around. My next choice is Catholocism, but my understanding is that they are very conservative and strict, which I don't like... I just don't know what to do... Any one??

My main advice to you would be to talk to a priest. I think to reject something you should first know why we believe what we do. Go to Mass, start praying the Rosary, perhaps join RCIA. Then you can decide if you would like to be Catholic. If you have any questions for me, you can PM me. Good luck on your journey.

 

[diamond717]

In my experience, the more I read the Bible, the more it changed ME. I also could see that legalistic churches were not scriptural. On the other hand, there are some definite things that God expects out of us, not that we can earn salvation. It just follows that faith would make us want to please Him in the ways that Jesus taught. Anyway, that is just my experience in a smaller nutshell than yours. I agree with Letalis, if it is the Catholic faith you are most interested in, then talk to a priest, and maybe take some classes to learn what they believe, and why. God is not afraid of honest questions, by the way.

 

[dodad91]

Lay aside what you "think" may fit you with respect to what church to join. There is only one true church. That's the BODY OF CHRIST. We who have accepted the Lord in their life as their personal saviour is within this Body. I believe when we seek religion, we're in fact trying to look or search for the things that "make us feel comfortable". Don't get me wrong, we should be relax and at ease when we enter the house of the Lord, but when we look for the exclusive purpose for the church to "cater to our needs" then our motive becomes unpure and without sincere purpose.

I suggest that you seek a church that teach the bible without compromise. Because it appears that you have been exposed to bible, in particular when you were part of the non-denominational church. However, you must be care ful when it comes to churches that call themsleves non-denominational, because what happens is sometimes they are actually a denomination of the non-denominational religion.

Therefore, by being exposed to so many religions could be a good or a bad thing depending on your spiritual growth. I trust and suggest that you wholly depend on the word of God, and not the theology of man and his doctrine. Get with some bible believing, bible teaching saints in bible study first before pursuing church membership again.

 

[LittleGirlLost]

I know what Catholics believe and why. Not because I have studied the Catholic church specifically, but because peoples reasons for being against homosexuality and things of that nature are basically the same no matter what creed you adhere to. I am simply not a conservative. Studying the Bible is something that I've done in the past. I don't want to say that I wouldn't change after study, but I'm not going to bank on it. What I'd like to find a liberal church that is similiar to the Catholic Church. And of course, to get advice on where to go from here...

I want to talk to a priest, but I'm having a hard time finding a local church (parish?). There is one nearby that is Roman Catholic, which I understand to be very conservative...

 

[LittleGirlLost]

Lay aside what you "think" may fit you with respect to what church to join. There is only one true church. That's the BODY OF CHRIST. We who have accepted the Lord in their life as their personal saviour is within this Body. I believe when we seek religion, we're in fact trying to look or search for the things that "make us feel comfortable". Don't get me wrong, we should be relax and at ease when we enter the house of the Lord, but when we look for the exclusive purpose for the church to "cater to our needs" then our motive becomes unpure and without sincere purpose.

The thing is that since I've been in so many churches I am very aware of how joining a group of people who are so drastically differant than myself can affect my faith. A church should feel like home. The people there should feel like family, even if they are family you don't necessarily like . There should be a certain amount of comfort. One thing that can drastically effect that comfort is if you attend a church were the people look down on you because you are not a conservative person, because you have homosexual friends, because you dress or talk differently. I'm not looking for a church that caters to my needs... I have studied certain things in the Bible and I do not believe that everything that people teach as sinful is in fact sinful according to God. Often I find that churches that call themselves Bible-Believing teach things that are not necessarily in the Bible if it benefits them. I prefer to find a church that is a liberal church because I believe that they are more likely to be able to find that they have been wrong in the past and change their teachings accordingly. Afterall, growing and changing is the definition of a living thing, and I would rather be a part of a living church than join a stagnant organization that only grows and changes in theory, but not practice.

 

[Letalis]

What I don't understand is that you say you value the history and tradition of the Catholic Church, but you are unwilling to accept what that tradition entails.

 

[LittleGirlLost]

What I don't understand is that you say you value the history and tradition of the Catholic Church, but you are unwilling to accept what that tradition entails.

When I refer to the history and tradition of the Church I am not talking about doctrine. I'm talking about communion, the rosary, the saints, confession, the services, ect. However, within those types of things, I believe, you must also be able to alter your thinking if evidence (or common decency) dictates that you do. Being against homosexuality (since that keeps coming up ) is not part of the history and tradition of the church, it is a doctrine that I do not believe after studying the subject is a doctrine that God cares about. It is one that people are concerned with for their own reasons. I would not want to join a church where I am considered a sinner because I will not align myself with a belief that is wrong.

That being said, I'm not here to debate, I'm asking for advice. If you would like to give me some, I'd appreciate it... It's just that advising that I will change my mind about certain things is not helpful... Not saying I won't, but, "If you study the Bible you will discover just how wrong you are" or "Don't try to find a church you are comfortable in" are the types of things that keep people from going at all. I'm coming to you guys as someone who wants to go, but is unsure of where she fits...

 

[Letalis]

When I refer to the history and tradition of the Church I am not talking about doctrine. I'm talking about communion, the rosary, the saints, confession, the services, ect. However, within those types of things, I believe, you must also be able to alter your thinking if evidence (or common decency) dictates that you do. Being against homosexuality (since that keeps coming up ) is not part of the history and tradition of the church, it is a doctrine that I do not believe after studying the subject is a doctrine that God cares about. It is one that people are concerned with for their own reasons. I would not want to join a church where I am considered a sinner because I will not align myself with a belief that is wrong.

That being said, I'm not here to debate, I'm asking for advice. If you would like to give me some, I'd appreciate it... It's just that advising that I will change my mind about certain things is not helpful... Not saying I won't, but, "If you study the Bible you will discover just how wrong you are" or "Don't try to find a church you are comfortable in" are the types of things that keep people from going at all. I'm coming to you guys as someone who wants to go, but is unsure of where she fits...

Alright, well, from what you have told me about yourself, I think you would be best suited for the Anglican communion. They are catholic in that they hold to the traditional liturgy style, the worship, et al. that you seem to be interested in. They also don't have a set belief system. So you're pretty much set to believe in whatever you want (so long as it's not outrageous like not believing in the Trinity). Many Anglicans don't believe that homosexuality is immoral and other such 'sticky' topics. I suggest you visit their forum here or go to one of their churches.

 

[LittleGirlLost]

Alright, well, from what you have told me about yourself, I think you would be best suited for the Anglican communion. They are catholic in that they hold to the traditional liturgy style, the worship, et al. that you seem to be interested in. They also don't have a set belief system. So you're pretty much set to believe in whatever you want (so long as it's not outrageous like not believing in the Trinity). Many Anglicans don't believe that homosexuality is immoral and other such 'sticky' topics. I suggest you visit their forum here or go to one of their churches.

I've heard about them, but I live out in the boonies and their church isn't an option for me. A Catholic friend of mine (very conservative) told me that she didn't want to go to a local church because it is 'Old Catholic'. I've been to some websites about that and it seems to be similiar to Angelican.

It feels sort of weird, though, going to talk w/ a priest when I'm not even Catholic and relatively unsure of where I stand. I guess that's why I'm here....

Anyway, thanks for the input.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Hi LittleGirlLost,

I'm Episcopalian, so in reading your narrative, I desperately tried to think of a church other than the Episcopal Church that I could recommend to you, so I wouldn't seem biased. As I read your story, though, I kept coming back to my own church, so I hope you'll forgive me if I recommend it to you.

The Episcopal Church (Which is part of the Anglican Communion that Letalis mentioned) is Catholic in terms of it's polity and liturgy, which means that we have bishops, priests, and deacons just like the Roman Catholic Church and our services are almost exactly like Roman Catholic masses in most parishes. Like in Roman Catholicism, prayer to Mary, and praying the rosary, are considered perfectly acceptable, though they're emphasized a bit less than in Roman Catholicism, and are generally considered optional. We even have confession before a priest, though it's very optional, and some Episcopalians never choose to confess in that manner (We figure God can forgive you himself and that confession before a priest is just an extra level of grace and assurance that we offer to those who desire it. ).

One of the big differences between the Episcopal Church and the Roman Catholic Church, though, is that the Episcopal Church is generally more liberal. We have both women and, in some areas, homosexual priests. We also tend to be more open to meeting people where they are. We believe in scripture and the ancient creeds as a church, but we have individual members who disagree with our stances, and are very welcome to be members and to come to our table to receive the Eucharist each week even though they disagree. We're all about love and grace and finding reasons to love people rather than reasons to send them away.

For the most part, we consider your relationship with God as being something between you and God. The priest will offer advice in his or her sermon, but usually you won't see anyone looking down their noses at anyone or trying to tell you what to do. We figure it's up to God to judge and up to everyone to live their own lives and work things out with God for themselves. As a community, we're just there to help if people want us to.

And your questioning attitude would fit in really well. There are posters in a lot of parish halls around the country that have a picture of Jesus with the caption "I came to take away your sins, not your brain". We derive our beliefs from what we call the Anglican three-legged stool: scripture, tradition, and reason. Yes, that's right, you get to use your brain.

We even have some clergy who question. In the 60s and 70s, there was a famous bishop named Bishop Pike who decided he didn't believe in the virgin birth and, more recently, the former Bishop of Newark (New Jersey), John Shelby Spong, questioned a lot of fundamental tennents of Christianity. Granted, they were not the most popular bishops in the history of the Episcopal Church, to put it mildly, but they were accepted. We believe that God loves all of his children, even the ones other churches might call heretics and kick out the door.

More information can be found at:
http://www.episcopalchurch.org
Then you may want to click on the "seeks and vistors" link on the main page, which has a lot of the type of information you might be looking for for!

Best of luck on your spiritual journey!

John

 

[Fish and Bread]

I'm talking about communion, the rosary, the saints, confession, the services, ect.

Oh, and I forgot to mention -- Episcopalians believe in Saints and have weekly communion at most parishes.

John

 

[LittleGirlLost]

Thanks, Fish & Bread. That was very helpful, and I think there is a Episcopal church in my town. I am going to the website that you listed right now.

It feels sort of weird, thinking of going back to church. I've been away for so long... Like I said earlier, logically, I still don't think I believe in God, but I miss him. I don't know if that makes any sense. Any thoughts on how to mesh those two things?

 

[Fish and Bread]

I've heard about them, but I live out in the boonies and their church isn't an option for me. A Catholic friend of mine (very conservative) told me that she didn't want to go to a local church because it is 'Old Catholic'. I've been to some websites about that and it seems to be similiar to Angelican.

The Anglican Communion and the Old Catholic Church have actually had a "full communion" agreement in place for about seventy years where we mutually recognize each other's ministries and sacraments as being valid. I suppose, in a way, you could call the Old Catholics our sister church. The main difference would probably be that Episcopalians are a bit like a moderate-liberal intellectual cross between Roman Catholics and Lutherans whereas Old Catholics are basically in many respects just a more liberal version of the Roman Catholics. So, the Old Catholics would definitely be something that'd be worth checking out. We have a couple of Old Catholic priests on the STR board you might want to private message. I'm sure they could give you more specific and more accuarate information about their church than I could. There is a strong charimatic strain in Old Catholicism, I'm told, though, with stuff like speaking in tongues, etc., which may not be something you'd like.

John

 

[LittleGirlLost]

The Anglican Communion and the Old Catholic Church have actually had a "full communion" agreement in place for about seventy years where we mutually recognize each other's ministries and sacraments as being valid. I suppose, in a way, you could call the Old Catholics our sister church. The main difference would probably be that Episcopalians are a bit like a moderate-liberal intellectual cross between Roman Catholics and Lutherans whereas Old Catholics are basically in many respects just a more liberal version of the Roman Catholics. So, the Old Catholics would definitely be something that'd be worth checking out. We have a couple of Old Catholic priests on the STR board you might want to private message. I'm sure they could give you more specific and more accuarate information about their church than I could. There is a strong charimatic strain in Old Catholicism, I'm told, though, with stuff like speaking in tongues, etc., which may not be something you'd like.

John

Speaking in tongues is neither attractive nor unattractive to me... It's just sort of something I'm used to.

Do you happen to know who the Old Catholic priests are? I would like to talk to one of them.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Thanks, Fish & Bread. That was very helpful, and I think there is a Episcopal church in my town. I am going to the website that you listed right now.

I'm glad I could help! Please let me know what you think.

It feels sort of weird, thinking of going back to church. I've been away for so long... Like I said earlier, logically, I still don't think I believe in God, but I miss him. I don't know if that makes any sense. Any thoughts on how to mesh those two things?

Well, I guess there are a couple of ways to go about that. One thing you might consider is praying about it, if you're comfortable with that. Sometimes God can answer those questions for us. Another idea might be to just compartmentalize for a little while. Your intellect and your spiritual life don't always have to be in complete agreement right away. Sometimes things work themselves out with time.

I actually stayed away from church for over ten years, during which I consider myself an agnostic leaning towards atheism. I thought God probably didn't exist and, if he did, he wouldn't necessarily be a very moral being, based on some parts of the bible. So, your post reminded me a lot of the way I used to think. I actually never thought I'd step foot in church again, but I had some experiences that led me to give it a shot and eventually became a fairly average (albeit fairly liberal and intellectual) Christian. But it wasn't something that happened overnight. I did a lot of reading up on stuff and hesistantly stepped foot in a few different churches for a few weeks at a time, did a little bit of prayer, and one day I woke up and realized that at some indeterminate point, I had acquired faith and actually believed in the stuff.

One thing that helped with some of those Old Testament was the idea that they didn't necessarily have to be taken literally as actual events and that some parts of it could be morality tales of some sort or just the way people perceived God as acting (i.e. a commentary done from the perspective of a human being with his or her opinions that color the account). Another thing that helped was the idea that God may have been doing some questionable things so he could put Israel in a position to give birth to Jesus and spread God's truth and love around the world. If some tribe of pagans had wiped out the Israelis at some point, we may have lost out on a lot of the teachings of love that eventually would lead to the end of things like slavery and the reduction of evils like poverty, etc. And, of course, on the closer relationship with God that many Christians believed resulted from the Incarnation.

John

 

[Fish and Bread]

Speaking in tongues is neither attractive nor unattractive to me... It's just sort of something I'm used to.

Do you happen to know who the Old Catholic priests are? I would like to talk to one of them.

One is "Father Rick" and the other is "Rev. Smith". I don't know if those are their exact screen names, but if they aren't they're a close variation on those. Father Rick is more on the conservative side of Old Catholicism (Though still more liberal than a Roman Catholic!) and Rev. Smith is more on the liberal side of things, from what I can tell.

By the way, I should mention that all information I provide about Old Catholicism is with the disclaimer that I've never actually been to an Old Catholic Church. It's just from what I pick up and could be slightly off. I know a lot more about the Episcopal Church.

John

 

[GodsGrl2]

Wow, i don't really know what to do other than tell you that I will be praying for you!
God Bless, GG2

 

[humbled4Jesus]

That longing in your heart you feel is God knocking at the door of your heart calling you to him.... Answer the Door!

 

[humbled4Jesus]

You haven't seen your dad in 6 years. People can really change a lot in 6 years. I know you don't want to see him or have anything to do with him, but you just might be missing the opportunity of a lifetime to resolve your relationship with him. Is he coming specifically to apologize to you? It is a truly horrible feeling to want to get forgiveness from someone and they won't do it. If you truly want to not see him, could you get a hotel room for a couple of days?