Finding balance in the current immigration debate

[Michie]

A great national discussion over immigration is heating up across our land. And that is part of the problem: There is often more heat than light in such discussions. As with many issues, Catholics on both sides are likely to reflect their political leanings more than their faith or the teaching of the Church.

The Catholic teaching on immigration, as stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is straightforward and balanced: “The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him. Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens” (No. 2241).

This teaching balances the natural right to immigrate with the common good. Prosperous nations such as ours are obliged, to the extent we can, to welcome foreigners and recognize that they have a natural right to immigrate. However, immigrants are to obey the law of the receiving country and respect its heritage. This surely includes the laws and “juridical conditions” assigned to the immigration process itself. This pertains to the common good.

Border disorder benefits no one​

Continued below.

Finding balance in the current immigration debate

Msgr. Charles Pope offers a Catholic perspective on immigration, calling for a balance on compassion and legal order in today's society.

www.oursundayvisitor.com

 

[Fantine]

What I see is that the bipartisan immigration bill, derailed by the current president despite being very sound and sensible, should have gone forward.
The nominally balanced article contains a lot of the incendiary rhetoric and fallacies of the far right, and sadly, some misplaced trust in exactly how far the current president will go in his plans.
My experience between 2016 and 2020 has shown me it would be dangerously naive to trust this administration.

 

[Michie]

Very balanced article from Msgr. Pope.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I identify with W. Bush's compassionate conservatism and support his comprehensive immigration reform. Minor adjustments to his reform bill could help us find common ground.

• Revise the asylum law to address its ambiguities. The current law does not specify that a person must cross the border legally to seek asylum. In my view, unless someone is in imminent physical danger in their own country, all asylum seekers MUST apply at their local US embassy.
• If asylum law clarifies ambiguities, it becomes easier to deport individuals who have crossed the border without a visa or legal status.
• Instead of a large physical wall, let's use electronic surveillance, fiber optics, and modern technologies to secure the border.
• Require all businesses to conduct E-verification for their employees, and impose substantial fines for non-compliance.
• Facilitate and expedite the process for obtaining H1B and other Guest Worker Visas to meet business needs promptly. However, ensure strict rules to visa expiration policies unless proper extensions are granted.
• Undocumented individuals who have committed violent crimes should be deported without delay. This policy may already be established in current legislation.
• Provide a path to legal status and potential citizenship for undocumented immigrants in the USA who have not committed a felony. ( I think this is where most republican today and I differ, majority President Trump’s supporter do not want to give any legal status to any undocumented immigrants )

 

[Fantine]

Very balanced article from Msgr. Pope.

I guess even priests fail to realize as soon as they use dog whistles like "open borders" they have lost the respect of all but the most ardent Trump followers.
The rest of us see the rabble-rousing languages and think, "Ugh! More far right rhetoric!" Perhaps he should do a rhetoric free rewrite which might be looked at as serious.

 

[Michie]

I guess even priests fail to realize as soon as they use dog whistles like "open borders" they have lost the respect of all but the most ardent Trump followers.
The rest of us see the rabble-rousing languages and think, "Ugh! More far right rhetoric!" Perhaps he should do a rhetoric free rewrite which might be looked at as serious.

I don’t think the majority of people care what your prejudices are. The majority see through the double standards. It just depends on what political party it is for some. Most of us try to take in the big picture.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I guess even priests fail to realize as soon as they use dog whistles like "open borders" they have lost the respect of all but the most ardent Trump followers.
The rest of us see the rabble-rousing languages and think, "Ugh! More far right rhetoric!" Perhaps he should do a rhetoric free rewrite which might be looked at as serious.

I am just curious, what did you find wrong with the article?

 

[Fantine]

The article greatly exaggerated our current border situation--disordered, chaos, immigrants getting free debit cards, openly invited, etc.
And minimizes the danger of Trump's policies--although he has talked loudly and clearly.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

The article greatly exaggerated our current border situation--disordered, chaos, immigrants getting free debit cards, openly invited, etc.
And minimizes the danger of Trump's policies--although he has talked loudly and clearly.

I agree with everything you said. However, I found the article more reasonable than anything from Trump's side. To solve this contentious issue quickly, we must overlook some of the language differences and focus on finding a common solution.

 

[Vambram]

The article greatly exaggerated our current border situation--disordered, chaos, immigrants getting free debit cards, openly invited, etc.
And minimizes the danger of Trump's policies--although he has talked loudly and clearly.

I'm sorry, but I say to those who really believe that the border situation during the Biden Administration was NOT as the description given by Msgr. Charles Pope:
The common good includes both the citizens of the receiving country and immigrants. The chaos and disorder at our borders have caused great harm to everyone involved. State governments, city officials and local citizens are overwhelmed in trying to supply housing and basic human care for the vast numbers coming across the southern border. But immigrants too are afflicted with every sort of suffering, including human and sexual trafficking, exploitation, extortion, rape, robbery and endless other woes. Our disordered system opens them to this abuse. Good order and enforcement of legal norms benefit and protect everyone.

Then I respectfully suggest that those who disagree with Msgr. Pope haven't been paying attention to ALL of the news reports from the various forms of media regarding our USA borders, illegal immigrants, and everything else connected with those situations.

 

[Fantine]

I believe this issue was grossly inflated for campaign purposes and reckless publicity stunts by Abbott and DeSantis.
And I read reputable news.

 

[Vambram]

I believe this issue was grossly inflated for campaign purposes and reckless publicity stunts by Abbott and DeSantis.
And I read reputable news.

Does that mean reputable news sources that only fit into the narrative that the Democratic Party appears to want us to believe?

 

[Michie]

I guess Our Sunday Visitor is not reputable. Lol! Along with Msgr. Charles Pope. *gasp*

 

[Fantine]

Msgr. Pope wrote an opinion essay. Opinion essays are just that, not journalism.
I think that WSJ and Forbes generally publish reliable facts, and they are conservative.
I am sure OSV's news stories are reliable.
I think OSV is at least ten times as reliable as Christian Post, which never ceases to shock me.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

A great national discussion over immigration is heating up across our land. And that is part of the problem: There is often more heat than light in such discussions. As with many issues, Catholics on both sides are likely to reflect their political leanings more than their faith or the teaching of the Church.

The Catholic teaching on immigration, as stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is straightforward and balanced: “The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him. Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens” (No. 2241).

This teaching balances the natural right to immigrate with the common good. Prosperous nations such as ours are obliged, to the extent we can, to welcome foreigners and recognize that they have a natural right to immigrate. However, immigrants are to obey the law of the receiving country and respect its heritage. This surely includes the laws and “juridical conditions” assigned to the immigration process itself. This pertains to the common good.

Border disorder benefits no one​

Continued below.

Finding balance in the current immigration debate

Msgr. Charles Pope offers a Catholic perspective on immigration, calling for a balance on compassion and legal order in today's society.

www.oursundayvisitor.com

Great! Those who wish to come to this country legally with the intention of fleeing their failed societies are welcome. But if criminal thugs think they can just waltz into this country so boadly and expect us to kiss their feet and make us capitulate to their demands to recreate the failed society that the "fled," they need to go pound sand.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Msgr. Pope wrote an opinion essay. Opinion essays are just that, not journalism.
I think that WSJ and Forbes generally publish reliable facts, and they are conservative.
I am sure OSV's news stories are reliable.
I think OSV is at least ten times as reliable as Christian Post, which never ceases to shock me.

Why do you not find Christian Post reliable?

 

[Fantine]

Because the reliable, referenced, doubly sourced, award winning publications I see say just the opposite.
I also find many of the social justice positions of the religious right bear little or no resemblance to the gospel teachings of Jesus.

 

[Hazelelponi]

A great national discussion over immigration is heating up across our land. And that is part of the problem: There is often more heat than light in such discussions. As with many issues, Catholics on both sides are likely to reflect their political leanings more than their faith or the teaching of the Church.

The Catholic teaching on immigration, as stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is straightforward and balanced: “The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him. Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens” (No. 2241).

This teaching balances the natural right to immigrate with the common good. Prosperous nations such as ours are obliged, to the extent we can, to welcome foreigners and recognize that they have a natural right to immigrate. However, immigrants are to obey the law of the receiving country and respect its heritage. This surely includes the laws and “juridical conditions” assigned to the immigration process itself. This pertains to the common good.

Border disorder benefits no one​

Continued below.

Finding balance in the current immigration debate

Msgr. Charles Pope offers a Catholic perspective on immigration, calling for a balance on compassion and legal order in today's society.

www.oursundayvisitor.com

Is the Pope complaining?

Look, we will get the criminals out, and those who are under deportation orders from the court.

Right now those who's asylum cases have been fully adjudicated and been denied asylum are about 1.6 million people.

Known criminals runs about 150,000 ..

Those are the known open targets

Then there's the Cartels and gangs and terrorist organizations that we know are here but we don't have their names and addresses or even their exact numbers etc etc.

^^^ that's going to be the main focus, probably over and above the two aforementioned groups because these pose the greatest danger to citizens.

People who are awaiting their asylum cases to be heard will stay so long as they are not breaking any laws, but as a citizen if they are adjudicated and denied asylum, they should be deported...

Quite a few will be staying I'm sure, but we didn't ask them to come and can't support them...

If people can't support themselves maybe they should leave and go somewhere they can.

If the Pope can afford to support these people then they need to go to his country. This isn't his nation and he's got zero business telling us anything about how to run ours.

 

[Michie]

Is the Pope complaining?

Look, we will get the criminals out, and those who are under deportation orders from the court.

Right now those who's asylum cases have been fully adjudicated and been denied asylum are about 1.6 million people.

Known criminals runs about 150,000 ..

Those are the known open targets

Then there's the Cartels and gangs and terrorist organizations that we know are here but we don't have their names and addresses or even their exact numbers etc etc.

^^^ that's going to be the main focus, probably over and above the two aforementioned groups because these pose the greatest danger to citizens.

People who are awaiting their asylum cases to be heard will stay so long as they are not breaking any laws, but as a citizen if they are adjudicated and denied asylum, they should be deported...

Quite a few will be staying I'm sure, but we didn't ask them to come and can't support them...

If people can't support themselves maybe they should leave and go somewhere they can.

If the Pope can afford to support these people then they need to go to his country. This isn't his nation and he's got zero business telling us anything about how to run ours.

Oh he is okay to close the the area he occupies. He just wants everyone else to do the opposite.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Because the reliable, referenced, doubly sourced, award winning publications I see say just the opposite.
I also find many of the social justice positions of the religious right bear little or no resemblance to the gospel teachings of Jesus.

Why are you replying via separate post and not to my post? Do you not know that I will not receive a notification unless you hit the "reply" button to my post? Seem kinda suspiscious to me. Care to share some of these "reliable, referenced, double sourced, award winning" propaganda publications you are referring to?

Regarding the gospel teachings of Jesus, where is a country required to accept and harbor criminal thugs and rapists that are dumped onto them from other countries?