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I thought it was only after the fall, when they had knowledge of good and evil that they gained a conscience (and need of one).
Good call Ray. I am sorry DomainRider, I had carelessly used the word "conscience" when in fact all they did was disobey a single command that God had given them. I'll shoot back to the post and rephrase it now..I thought it was only after the fall, when they had knowledge of good and evil that they gained a conscience (and need of one). But there are probably a number of interpretations...
If you really understand, perhaps you could explain how the spirit world influences the material world? The material world is physical, and the basic mechanisms of the physical are well understood down to the subatomic level - so how does the spirit world affect the physical? what is the mechanism?
This is interesting. I don't see the Bible saying anything about conscience with regard to this event, either way. I've been meaning to ask Antz about his statement "tree of conscience" anyway; this is the perfect occasion.
Yes, I suppose we are inspired to think a bit more when we have so many variations at hand.Thanks! I'm less interested in what one version translates it as, and more interested in the Author's original intent(Seeking Truth, you know.)
One valid way of doing that is to check with other believers. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but the Word seems to support this connection between the tree or partaking of it, and the conscience: John 3:19, the condemnation that Light has come into the world, and men prefer darkness because our deeds are evil; 1 Timothy 4:2 which speaks of "seared with a hot iron."
'To follow like sheep' - it's a figure of speech, suggesting blind or thoughtless group behaviour. I mentioned it because, as I said at the time, what you meant by your reference to sheep and goats wasn't clear to me, so I was suggesting possible meanings to try to clarify it. Judging from your response, you weren't using 'sheep and goats' in that way, so I still don't know what you meant.By the way, what makes you think sheep don't think?
OK, looks like we're on completely different wavelengths here.I did explain it, I just said I'm not going to waste time describing it. Here it is again:
"I'm not going to waste time trying to describe it. You can ask God for it and receive the enlightenment in one single thought - that is, if you really want to."
If so, then there should be objective evidence for it - have you any examples of such evidence?No it is objectively real before they believed it.
See explanation above.I'd like to hear you explain why you made the comment that sheep don't think.
We're still talking about the flood and Noah's ark here aren't we?Based on the assumptions of people who would like to prove it false, and don't recognize what was actually said about it. So, their conclusions are meaningless.
The question was asking how people are influenced, i.e. what are the mechanics of the process by which this is achieved... I don't see how 'people' describes that mechanism any more than 'God/spirits' does. To make a crude analogy, people drive cars - the equivalent question would be 'how? what is the mechanism by which this is achieved?' a useful answer might include a description of how the steering wheel, gas pedal, and brakes control the car.There are an incredible variety of ways to address this. I'm going to pick 2:
1) Ordinarily, that mechanism is people. The gist of your conversation is how G-d (or other spirits) affect people, or not. What you need to look at is objective, then it becomes much clearer.
I'm not exactly saying that. It's a process of inductive logic. Anything that affects the physical world must itself be physical, or have some physical component to effect that influence. This means that, in principle, it is detectable and can be measured. If it cannot itself be directly detected in practice, then its physical effects must be detectable and measurable. If this is not the case, then it is reasonable to say that there is no physical influence, because physical change is, by definition, observable - therefore detectable. The fundamental ways in which matter can be influenced are known - interactions are governed by the four fundamental forces, acting independently or in concert. These forces and their effects can be detected and measured.2) You're basically saying if G-d can't be put in a test tube, you won't believe He exists. Well, G-d can't be put in a test tube.
So you see that Jesus has taken the first step by giving you the world as your oyster. When you one day realize that there must be more to life than just observing atoms and far-off planets, you can take the next step which He says is to obey Him.
Jesus is a good guy, He isn't going to make you feel bad for admitting that you want to love Him. Only a person who doesn't have any love for you will treat you that way
'To follow like sheep' - it's a figure of speech, suggesting blind or thoughtless group behaviour. I mentioned it because, as I said at the time, what you meant by your reference to sheep and goats wasn't clear to me, so I was suggesting possible meanings to try to clarify it. Judging from your response, you weren't using 'sheep and goats' in that way, so I still don't know what you meant.
I consider an empty tomb with no forthcoming accounts from secular realms to be evidence enough. Perhaps you will refute this evidence if you have more faith in your fellow Godless humanity. I happen to put my faith in God-fearing humanity.If so, then there should be objective evidence for it - have you any examples of such evidence?
You are a big boy, I trust you can make your own decision about this. It would be good to investigate the benefits of believing these other prophets. As you ought to know, Jesus doesn't promise to make your life easier than you have already made it, but He does promise to give you life everlasting in the new earth where there is no serpent and where He is everyone's chosen leader. You have the option to join Him should you want to, all you have to do is obey Him. I'm sure I've said this to you before, this is Jesus' attitude about it:There are countless other religions and cults, both monotheist and polytheist, from Scientology to Neopaganism, from Islam to Shinto, making similar sounding claims and offers. I haven't heard anything that makes the offer and claims that you have presented any more believable than those others, nor have I seen any credible evidence that they are realistic claims and offers. Having grown up in one of these religious groups and finding nothing credible in its core belief structure, I simply don't see any need for such beliefs. This doesn't stop me being curious as to why people have these beliefs, and the different forms they take.
We're still talking about the flood and Noah's ark here aren't we?
If so, AIUI, the version generally used is that in the King James bible. Is that not suitable?
The question was asking how people are influenced
I'm not exactly saying that. It's a process of inductive logic. Anything that affects the physical world must itself be physical, or have some physical component to effect that influence.
So if you say something (say, God) influences people (changes them in some material way), then the physical component causing the material effect should be detectable and measurable, as should the results of its action.
This is an interesting area of research.Just wondering, how does science detect a thought?
The cortex contains about 16 billion neurons,
a single cc of cortex contains as many connections as there are stars in our galaxy (200-400 billion).
At present, the resolution is low, and these systems must be trained for each individual and their thought patterns, but it is (crudely) possible to detect someone's thoughts, and in specific cases, what they are actually thinking about.
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