Fighting back against big tech censorship

[hislegacy]

You don't have a right to Facebook, Twitter or Google.

ok, thank you.

 

[Halbhh]

If there was only one bakery available you would have a point. But this censure is system wide.

if the speech is banned from Facebook, Twitter, Google, and YouTube where can you go?

Apple just eliminated the ability for Parler to function.

I can go to any one of dozens of bakeries, where can I go when big tech has silenced, potentially, 75,000,000 Americans who voted for one candidate.

Suppose you decided not to publish my words.

Would I then still have 'free speech'?

Answer: Yes.

That you refused to publish my words didn't at all stop my actual free speech.

I can go to another business/platform/publisher. (there are very, very many)

Same for anyone else, any other group -- they can go somewhere else, If they can find one willing to freely enter business with them (freely, as in "free enterprise").

They can even fund their own new platform, etc.

It's "freedom". "Free enterprise".

(But there are still real limits: you can't incite violence without being held liable)

We already know that the extreme pro-Trump people have many widely watched/read platforms.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Honestly, If LGBTQ, Atheists, etc promised (and held to that promise) that they would never again challenge the religious freedom of any Christian, trying to force them under the law to go against the tenents of their faith or the dictates of their consciences, or that of any Christian based organisation or company again, in any way, shape, or form....

Then I wouldn't fight against the monopoly that is BIG tech who has more power than governments...

But the sad fact is... the former will never occur.

 

[Halbhh]

Honestly, If LGBTQ, Atheists, etc promised (and held to that promise) that they would never again challenge the religious freedom of any Christian, trying to force them under the law to go against the tenents of their faith or the dictates of their consciences, or that of any Christian based organisation or company again, in any way, shape, or form....

Then I wouldn't fight against the monopoly that is BIG tech who has more power than governments...

But the sad fact is... the former will never occur.

If it were possible that Big Tech could stop me from telling people the gospel, I would definitely challenge and work against them trying to stop me.

Of course, they cannot stop me, and aren't trying to either. (but it's a pertinent, strong example)

But, if in some future time they tried to stop me, then I would not let them stop me, I hope and expect. (because God is more important than mere temporal things like mere political parties or who's elected today, and who tomorrow, and other trivial stuff)

In practical terms though, it's hard to even imagine any way they could stop me. If I somehow could even be blocked over the internet (a far off and unlikely seeming possibility), I would still be able to easily go in person to people and continue unhindered.

But in practical terms, if several of the largest Big Tech businesses tried to stop me from telling the gospel, they could not even do so technically. Because they have too many competitors, other providers.

 

[RDKirk]

I Look at it this way:

Big Tech = Christian Bakery

and

Donald Trump = Gay wedding Cake

You don't seem to understand the laws involved.

The bakery ran afoul of the state Civil Rights Act passed by the state government. Their intended defense was the federal First Amendment, which precludes state and federal government from infringing free speech or compelling any particular speech. Both of those acts by the government are precluded. Those were laws in conflict, which is why the baker had a case to begin with.

Government can't compel Amazon to carry Donald Trump's speech any more than they can compel me to loan you my cell phone. That's the First Amendment...there is no law in conflict with that in this case.

 

[RDKirk]

Honestly, If LGBTQ, Atheists, etc promised (and held to that promise) that they would never again challenge the religious freedom of any Christian, trying to force them under the law to go against the tenents of their faith or the dictates of their consciences, or that of any Christian based organisation or company again, in any way, shape, or form....

Then I wouldn't fight against the monopoly that is BIG tech who has more power than governments...

But the sad fact is... the former will never occur.

That's because Christians will often make up what we consider our "religious freedom" and "dictates of their consciences" on the spot. And funny how often those "dictates of their consciences" are nowhere to be found in scripture.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Of course, they cannot stop me, and aren't trying to either. (but it's a pertinent, strong example)

Look at how many churches use Facebook for Sunday services during COVID... our religious freedom in this country is on the exact same solid constitutional ground as freedom of speech.

If they are allowed to stifle, shut down, ban, and deplatform people for exercising their constitutional right to free speech, they can just as easily do the same to your constitutional right to the free exercise of your religion...

Don't worry, your head is on the chopping block too...

I find it humorous when people think this kind of thing will never affect their pet constitutional rights, so they ignore that guys constitutional rights being removed... but if we learn anything from history, is that when we allow one persons freedom to be taken, it always opens the door for our own to be removed.

 

[RDKirk]

yes, in fact they are indeed capable of it because of their monopoly on the venue. I can find dozens of bakeries, name where I can go when Facebook, Twitter, Google, YouTube censures the voices and Parler was driven off the net.

If there was only one bakery available you would have a point. But this censure is system wide.

if the speech is banned from Facebook, Twitter, Google, and YouTube where can you go?

Plus Instagram, Snapchat, Tiktok, and several others. Heck, MySpace is even still out there. New ones pop up ever year. That is not a monopoly, nowhere close to being a monopoly.

Of course, some shizzle stinks so much nobody will want to carry it. There's that.

I can go to any one of dozens of bakeries, where can I go when big tech has silenced, potentially, 75,000,000 Americans who voted for one candidate.

That's sufficient market for wealthy conservative investors to set up their own hosting service. In fact, Bluehost is already owned by the Mormons. It doesn't need to be as big as Facebook, it only has to scale up to the size of its target market.

 

[RDKirk]

Look at how many churches use Facebook for Sunday services during COVID... our religious freedom in this country is on the exact same solid constitutional ground as freedom of speech.

If they are allowed to stifle, shut down, ban, and deplatform people for exercising their constitutional right to free speech, they can just as easily do the same to your constitutional right to the free exercise of your religion...

Don't worry, your head is on the chopping block too...

I find it humorous when people think this kind of thing will never affect their pet constitutional rights, so they ignore that guys constitutional rights being removed... but if we learn anything from history, is that when we allow one persons freedom to be taken, it always opens the door for our own to be removed.

My church uses Facebook, YouTube, our own Roku channel, and our own website for services every day of the week. If necessary, we can host the website on our own. Any group of churches can get together and host their own services.

This isn't difficult. Individuals do it on their own servers at home. If church members contribute to scale up as necessary, anyone can be Twitter.

How do you think the "dark web" exists?

 

[Hazelelponi]

My church uses Facebook, YouTube, our own Roku channel, and our own website for services every day of the week. If necessary, we can host the website on our own. Any group of churches can get together and host their own services.

This isn't difficult. Individuals do it on their own servers at home. If church members contribute to scale up as necessary, anyone can be Twitter.

How do you think the "dark web" exists?

Do you really want your church even associated with what goes on in the dark web?

Let's wait until Christianity is illegal for that why don't we?

 

[RDKirk]

Do you really want your church even associated with what goes on in the dark web?

Let's wait until Christianity is illegal for that why don't we?

 

[Halbhh]

Look at how many churches use Facebook for Sunday services during COVID... our religious freedom in this country is on the exact same solid constitutional ground as freedom of speech.

If they are allowed to stifle, shut down, ban, and deplatform people for exercising their constitutional right to free speech, they can just as easily do the same to your constitutional right to the free exercise of your religion...

Don't worry, your head is on the chopping block too...

I find it humorous when people think this kind of thing will never affect their pet constitutional rights, so they ignore that guys constitutional rights being removed... but if we learn anything from history, is that when we allow one persons freedom to be taken, it always opens the door for our own to be removed.

We are discussing more than 1 thing here.

An important part --
There is no right of free speech to "shout fire in a crowded theater" or to directly incite violence.

Our "free speech" extends only to the limits as determined by the Supreme Court --

Freedom of speech and expression, therefore, may not be recognized as being absolute, and common limitations or boundaries to freedom of speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, inappropriate contentography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, food labeling, non-disclosure agreements, the right to privacy, dignity, the right to be forgotten, public security, and perjury.
Freedom of speech - Wikipedia

 

[parousia70]

yes, in fact they are indeed capable of it because of their monopoly on the venue. I can find dozens of bakeries, name where I can go when Facebook, Twitter, Google, YouTube censures the voices and Parler was driven off the net.

Wait... is it your position that internet access is a civil right?

 

[xpower]

 

[hislegacy]

Wait... is it your position that internet access is a civil right?

I have objection to a small group of companies that disseminate information to almost 2,000,000,000 people globally saying who and who can speak.

they are NOT designed as private forums, but as public message venues. They were also used as communication hubs for the violent attacks of police and government buildings for months. they were also used by members of the incoming administration, including the person who will be Vice President to raise funds for bail for those who attacked those federal facilities.

 

[SummerMadness]

I have objection to a small group of companies that disseminate information to almost 2,000,000,000 people globally saying who and who can speak.

they are NOT designed as private forums, but as public message venues. They were also used as communication hubs for the violent attacks of police and government buildings for months. they were also used by members of the incoming administration, including the person who will be Vice President to raise funds for bail for those who attacked those federal facilities.

It seems you are still avoiding a very direct question. Are you arguing that Internet access is a civil right and that companies that provide access are required to give you space to say whatever you please?

My prediction is we're going to start hearing a big call for net neutrality from the folks wailing about big tech this week.

 

[hislegacy]

It seems you are still avoiding a very direct question. Are you arguing that Internet access is a civil right and that companies that provide access are required to give you space to say whatever you please?

My prediction is we're going to start hearing a big call for net neutrality from the folks wailing about big tech this week.

You completely ignored my points also.

there ya go!

 

[parousia70]

I have objection to a small group of companies that disseminate information to almost 2,000,000,000 people globally saying who and who can speak.

Gotcha... so you are a staunch proponent and advocate for Big Gov't regulation of, and intervention into, Private Business, because you believe private business does not have the right to decide for themselves what they want to allow on their platform.

Noted.

 

[RDKirk]

It seems you are still avoiding a very direct question. Are you arguing that Internet access is a civil right and that companies that provide access are required to give you space to say whatever you please?

My prediction is we're going to start hearing a big call for net neutrality from the folks wailing about big tech this week.

You mean the same net neutrality that Trump's lackey Ajit Pai was appointed to the FCC to destroy?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Do you, 'hislegacy', think Government should force me to sell you a cake, against my will?

It's an interesting question.
Weird because we wouldn't say the govt should force you to deliver your product to all who request it.

On the other hand, you make your living in the public space that we all have to share. The state provides security, legal resources that protect your land and building etc, order for you to carry out your business function (or that's a reasonable assumption?? Perhaps not??) - so ought the state be due obedience if they are interested in serving all people?

Definately an interesting question.

The way I've heard the debate framed over here in the UK regarding big tech is; Do American's want freedom of speech being in the hands of just a few people? (FB, AWS and Google).