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Fiery Hell

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Jpark

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maybe not that specific thing, but I expect there are people who (somehow!) believe we grill forever much the same as there are people from your rival religion, that believe they will get 72 virgins in paradise as reward for killing infidels.

I don't understand how anyone can take anything in the Bible seriously let alone take some of it literally. This thread merely assumes a literal never ending burning for such audiences who believe it.
For the rest of you? feel free to kick back knowing it isn't your God being referred to in this thread
Speaking of grilling forever :cool:, I hear that in hell, just when your skin is nearly dissolved, your flesh grows back and the whole cycle starts again. So to continually contend with what is described in Zechariah 14:12 would be a great deal of torment. :idea:

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
 
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Yuyuchan

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Wow. I need to study that bible passage. But why did you post this post? I mean is it because you are curious or that you want to see what Christians say? The current point is that a person should Love God not because of fearing to go to the lake of fire, but because they love God and want to be with Him. I am not sure how the people will be tormented. I have not given it that much thought. But I have came to the conclusion that I will go to heaven and be with my Lord. I study the Bible, but I am still seeking to learn more about it. :3 I cannot say I know everything. But I am blessed with curiosity and I shall use it to push me forward. :D
 
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LJSGM

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See, I don't believe any of it of, so I shall leave it to those who do eagerly lick their chops at the thought of us heathens grilling eternally to argue this case.

Most true christians preach the gospel for the opposite effect, that of saving you from it.

Suffice it to say that these verses imply very scary indeed and given that there are some horrifically painful ways to die other than being consumed in fire one would expect that if God was trying to scare us he'd be threatening a little bit more than a moments suffering.

gnashing of teeth was an expression of extreme hatred and anger, not pain or suffering. Weeping is an expression of loss and sadness.

I leave it to those who share this view to figure out exactly how this is accomplished by their ever righteous and virtuous God.

Perhaps God's purpose is to reconcile all things by getting rid of the curse of sin and all those that chose it.
 
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packermann

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For all you Bible literalists out there:

I experience pain as a physical human because my human body has pain receptors. If when I die and go to hell (and if your belief is correct then that is indeed where I am going), will your loving God be outfitting my soul with spiritual pain receptors (and teeth to gnash) such that I never miss even the briefest agonising sensation of his righteously created fires of eternal torment?


Wow! That's a mouthful!

I am not so sure that hell is a place of literal fire. The Bible is full of metaphors. At one place Jesus described hell as a lake of fire. At another place it is described as a placeb of outer darkness. Well, how can you have literal fire and yet have a literal darkness? The two seem contradictory, which makes me to think that these are merely metaphors to describe what hell is like.

Fire symbolizes the torment in hell. The torment would come primarily from the sense of the loss of God for all eternity. You will realize by then that God is the source of all good. As Augustine once said "Thou hast made us for Yourself. And our hearts our every restless until they rest in Thee". True happiness can only be found in God, and the torment would be the realization for eternity you are seething with regret for missing that true happiness.

Fire is also a symbol in the Bible for hatred. God is love. He is the source of all love. God gives the gift of his love to all of us, even when we do not seek Him. Theologians call this common grace. Without this common grace, we would be unable to love our spouses, our children, our friends, etc. If we go through life saying that we do not need God, that we do not want God, then at Judgement Day, God gives us what we want. We want our lives without God. Very well. He gives it to us. He withdraws Himself entirely from us. That means He even withdraws that common grace from us. We are no longer able to love our spouses, our parents, our children. or our friends. Anyone we meet in hell would be nothing but a source of irritation toward us. Others in hell would just increase our rage, hatred, anger, jealousy and resentment. That hatred would burn into our souls, just as it were fire. This hatred toward others can be so string that it can be very, very painful. I know that from first-hand experience. I once hated someone so much that it caused me physical pain. Fire also symbolizes guilt and shame. For all eternity, the sins that he has commited are always before him.

This brings then the symbol of outer darkness. If only those in Hell would repent, then I would think they would be accepted into heaven. But although they are filled with regret, although they realize that God is the source of all good, they are unable to repent. They are in darkness as to realizing the remedy to getting out of hell. They make all the excuses for why they should not need to repent. They will blame others instead of blaming themselves. They curse others in hell that they knew for being the reason they are in hell. This only alienates them more from everyone else in hell. Darkness also symbolizes loneliness. Although there are others in hell, their hatred cause them to feel aone. Darkness also symbolizes emptiness - nilhilism. It is a feeling that nothing really matters. There is no purpose to one's existence.

So this is what I see hell is like - everlasting regret for losing God, who is the source of all good, for all eternity. As a result of losing God, to experience for all eternity guilt, rage, hatred, a darkened mind, loneliness, and an inner emptiness.
 
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LJSGM

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So this is what I see hell is like - everlasting regret for losing God, who is the source of all good, for all eternity. As a result of losing God, to experience for all eternity guilt, rage, hatred, a darkened mind, loneliness, and an inner emptiness.

If you have any of these things, guilt, rage, hatred, a darkened mind, loneliness or an inner emptiness, it means that you are still alive. Whether alive in hell or alive in heaven doesn't matter.

Only those that believe in Jesus the Christ, son of the living God, have eternal life.
 
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LJSGM

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Matthew 10
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

I do not believe this verse to be a metaphor.

It directly says that the body and soul are destroyed in hell.

There are many other verses that say the same.
 
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packermann

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Matthew 10
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

I do not believe this verse to be a metaphor.

It directly says that the body and soul are destroyed in hell.

There are many other verses that say the same.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that you are stating a belief that you do not believe in the continued existence of the soul in hell. It seems thyat you believe in the annihilation of the sould and the body in hell. The only group of professing Christians that I know of that believe in anihilation are the Jehovah's Witnesses, which is a cult. Both Catholics and Protestants would disagree with you.

I would be more than happy to discuss this with you, but that would violate the rules posted from this section. If you want to PM me, I would happy to discuss this. Or I suggest you open a thread in the theology section (under Eschatology). Or at least open your own thread in this section.
 
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LJSGM

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Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that you are stating a belief that you do not believe in the continued existence of the soul in hell. It seems thyat you believe in the annihilation of the sould and the body in hell. The only group of professing Christians that I know of that believe in anihilation are the Jehovah's Witnesses, which is a cult. Both Catholics and Protestants would disagree with you.

I would be more than happy to discuss this with you, but that would violate the rules posted from this section. If you want to PM me, I would happy to discuss this. Or I suggest you open a thread in the theology section (under Eschatology). Or at least open your own thread in this section.

The variation in people's concept of hell, whether RCC, EO, protestant, or other, is overwhelming.

I put great stock in what the Scriptures say, not what anyone else tries to guilt trip me into believing.
 
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ebia

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Let me just say that I'm more than happy to kick back and let people air and attempt to resolve their conflicting opinions within this thread.

I state right here I shall not be offended in any way.
You may not mind, but the people doing so are breaking forum rules. This particular forum in not for Christians to debate with each other - if they want to do so they need to take it elsewhere.

On this as many other topics there are a range of Christian positions and Christian responses need to stick to answering your questions from their position - not engaging in discussion with each other.
 
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Grega

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You may not mind, but the people doing so are breaking forum rules. This particular forum in not for Christians to debate with each other - if they want to do so they need to take it elsewhere.

On this as many other topics there are a range of Christian positions and Christian responses need to stick to answering your questions from their position - not engaging in discussion with each other.

Interestingly, no one actually seems to have answered my questions barring the comments made by some that they don't believe in a literal eternal torture whilst others claim the contrary. No one who holds the notion that eternal fiery suffering is true seems to have sat back and thought about what must also be true of their formulation of God for this to be so.
 
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Jpark

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Interestingly, no one actually seems to have answered my questions barring the comments made by some that they don't believe in a literal eternal torture whilst others claim the contrary. No one who holds the notion that eternal fiery suffering is true seems to have sat back and thought about what must also be true of their formulation of God for this to be so.

Romans 3:6 For then how will God judge the world?

His judgment is an expression of His love. (Romans 8:38-39)

His holy character requires that He judge sin. (Romans 3:5)

God is a jealous God. God could tolerate no form of idolatry. (Deuteronomy 4:24)

Numbers 25:5 So Moses said to the judges of Israel, "Every one of you kill his men who were joined to Baal of Peor."

The judges were responsible to execute the apostates.
 
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Grega

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Romans 3:6 For then how will God judge the world?

His judgment is an expression of His love. (Romans 8:38-39)

His holy character requires that He judge sin. (Romans 3:5)

God is a jealous God. God could tolerate no form of idolatry. (Deuteronomy 4:24)

Numbers 25:5 So Moses said to the judges of Israel, "Every one of you kill his men who were joined to Baal of Peor."

The judges were responsible to execute the apostates.
What I meant in my last post is that for eternal toasting to be true either spiritually or physically; requires a degree of micromanagement on behalf of your *loving* God, or the construction of a suitable vessel (one that we do not currently have) such that we never fail to miss a single moment of horrific and never ending suffering.
This has implications for the character of your God in addition to those you posted.
 
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Jpark

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What I meant in my last post is that for eternal toasting to be true either spiritually or physically; requires a degree of micromanagement on behalf of your *loving* God, or the construction of a suitable vessel (one that we do not currently have) such that we never fail to miss a single moment of horrific and never ending suffering.
This has implications for the character of your God in addition to those you posted.

I believe the hell fire will be surreal. (Matthew 10:28) God has prepared us no such vessel.

God is a loving God. (Romans 8:22-23) Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41)
 
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Grega

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I believe the hell fire will be surreal. (Matthew 10:28) God has prepared us no such vessel.

God is a loving God. (Romans 8:22-23) Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41)
Please elaborate on this point so I can accurately respond to the rest of this post.
 
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Jpark

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Please elaborate on this point so I can accurately respond to the rest of this post.

The hell fire will certainly be quite lethal. It will kill (destroy) your body and your soul. (Matthew 10:28) Destruction for the sinner will not result in annihilation or extinction. It is not the loss of being, but of well-being. It is spiritual poverty.

Destitution includes the absence of His Spirit, which is the same as the presence of God. (Psalm 51:11) Now I believe God will be there in hell. His judgment is an expression of His love. For nothing can seperate one from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39) And two, God is not subject to the boundaries that seperate people in heaven and hell. (Luke 16:26) I believe the absence of His presence means He is concealing His presence from the sinners in hell.
 
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Grega

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The hell fire will certainly be quite lethal. It will kill (destroy) your body and your soul. (Matthew 10:28) Destruction for the sinner will not result in annihilation or extinction. It is not the loss of being, but of well-being. It is spiritual poverty.

Destitution includes the absence of His Spirit, which is the same as the presence of God. (Psalm 51:11) Now I believe God will be there in hell. His judgment is an expression of His love. For nothing can seperate one from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39) And two, God is not subject to the boundaries that seperate people in heaven and hell. (Luke 16:26) I believe the absence of His presence means He is concealing His presence from the sinners in hell.
What part of me will remain in Hell to experience/perceive/be aware of this spiritual poverty given that this fire apparantly destroys my body and soul?
 
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ebia

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One interesting speculation I've come across (and remembering that everything the bible has to say on the matter is symbolic all answers to your questions are speculations, just some better founded than others) is the idea that all people are resurrected but - because we become like that which we worship - those who refuse right relationship with God will become less and less like God, eventually loosing their image-of-God-ness althogether - at which point they are no longer human at all. Their soul, their personhood, is gone.
 
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Jpark

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What part of me will remain in Hell to experience/perceive/be aware of this spiritual poverty given that this fire apparantly destroys my body and soul?

Well, your body and soul will remain. Your body and soul will not be wiped out. Instead, your body will likely see corruption. You soul will remain in hell. Not only is the torment from the physical pain to your body, but also excruciating pain to your mental health. There will be grief, suffering, and regret.

Acts 2:31 concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
 
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