Feminist Given Award for Designing Chair Which Intentionally Makes Men Feel Uncomfortable

[SummerMadness]

Here's what you do if someone is actually spreading their legs to the degree that they are actually blocking other people from sitting somewhere: "Excuse me, can you please move over a bit so I can sit there?"

OHMYGOD THE FRICKING WORLD IS OVER, ISN'T IT!

But it's more than people not allowing others to sit, it also includes people that sit next to you encroaching on your seat. I speak up, but I think most people like to be non-confrontational, just look at the outbursts and complaints in this thread and none of these people are even sitting on a train. The main issue is that once manspreading started to be discussed in a broader sense, you have a bunch of men that get ultra defensive, which is quite ridiculous.

 

[SummerMadness]

Oh dear, did I quote you as saying "It's about being inconsiderate," rather than "It's simply being inconsiderate." What a grievous misrepresentation.

Hey, I get it. When your arguments are in shambles you start fishing around for red herrings, right? I understand that. Inconsiderate, but understandable.

Saying someone is being inconsiderate and attributing being inconsiderate to motivation (saying they are "about being") are two different things. It is a misrepresentation because you constructed an entire straw man claiming I said anything about motivation. As I said, if you're going to quote, comprehend what was written before commenting.

 

[bekkilyn]

First, it's not exactly comfortable for women to sit with their legs forced together either. Second, the person who did the project was making a point, and not with the intention of mass producing chairs for the discomfort of everyone. The fact that there is so much angst on this thread from some apparently entitled males who think that they are being persecuted by the very idea that maybe they shouldn't sit in a way that takes up so much space in public due to their own exaggerated machismo so that everyone else has no room to sit at all helps to prove the original point that this person was trying to make. Third, the hotel decided on its own concerning the chairs and is not the fault of the person who completed the project. Since we have an unregulated free market society, those who don't like the hotel's decision have the vast power to immediately put them out of business by simply not giving them their business and thus hitting them hard to their pocketbooks. No problem at all! And then they can go sit in a crowded space and take up five chairs and mock the four wimps who as a result are forced to remain on their feet. Pown3d!

 

[zippy2006]

Saying someone is being inconsiderate and attributing being inconsiderate to motivation (saying they are "about being") are two different things. It is a misrepresentation because you constructed an entire straw man claiming I said anything about motivation. As I said, if you're going to quote, comprehend what was written before commenting.

When you deny discomfort as a motive your parallel hypothesis is in the same species as that which was denied, namely motive. That is the logical way to read, "It's not about discomfort, it's simply being inconsiderate." This is only supported by the previous part of your sentence (i.e. men are small and men don't spread elsewhere, therefore they are not spreading due to a motive of discomfort).

Anyway, I assume you will just continue to ignore all of these points.

 

[dzheremi]

But it's more than people not allowing others to sit, it also includes people that sit next to you encroaching on your seat. I speak up, but I think most people like to be non-confrontational, just look at the outbursts and complaints in this thread and none of these people are even sitting on a train. The main issue is that once manspreading started to be discussed in a broader sense, you have a bunch of men that get ultra defensive, which is quite ridiculous.

Notice how I did not even mention men in my reply, but your reply is about "a bunch of men that get ultra defensive."

Frankly, this is one of the reasons I won't even ride public transportation anymore. I need a chair to sit in because I am physically disabled (and have been since birth, lest anyone gets on the "many people who claim to need those chairs actually don't" train of thought), and it's actually marked all over the bus that you are supposed to give up seats to disabled people or pregnant women, and yet some men don't want to move their bodies (and they want to make an issue of being asked), and some women don't want to move their purses/bags (and they want to make an issue out of being asked). I've experienced both. Everyone who behaves like this, regardless of sex, is a jerk. Yet we're supposed to applaud the person who made this dumb chair? Nope. It's stupid.

 

[tryphena rose]

Are we really trying to throw whataboutism to deflect from people taking up too much space on a seat by spreading their legs? What about people that think cucumbers taste better pickled?

And again, obese people take up too much space by being overly large which could most definitely be seen as a societal issue. Look at the rates of obesity in the US alone. My issue with these chairs in particular is it's clearly catering to the ideologies of the feminist agenda. Aligning with the ideas of "fat-shaming" or "body positivity", which also comes directly from the feminist movement, directly relates to the hypocrisy of this very chair being created and the real motives behind it's creation.

 

[SummerMadness]

When you deny discomfort as a motive your parallel hypothesis is in the same species as that which was denied, namely motive. That is the logical way to read, "It's not about discomfort, it's simply being inconsiderate." This is only supported by the previous part of your sentence (i.e. men are small and men don't spread elsewhere, therefore they are not spreading due to a motive of discomfort).

Anyway, I assume you will just continue to ignore all of these points.

I deny discomfort because these people are not manspreading everywhere else. If we saw this phenomena in places other than public transportation, you might have a point, but people are able to sit everywhere else with little issue. Additionally, if there really was an issue with discomfort, you'd see more of that reflected in ergonomic design of chairs.

One thing that is missed is the artist also created a chair to encourage the spreading of legs, chairs are not made this way either. The simple fact is that it is not uncomfortable to sit with your legs next to each other. Most people survive in other areas without manspreading, and that's the point, it's a behavior that does not consider others. It doesn't make you evil because you manspread, but it's helpful to not take up more than one seat.

 

[SummerMadness]

Notice how I did not even mention men in my reply, but your reply is about "a bunch of men that get ultra defensive."

Frankly, this is one of the reasons I won't even ride public transportation anymore. I need a chair to sit in because I am physically disabled (and have been since birth, lest anyone gets on the "many people who claim to need those chairs actually don't" train of thought), and it's actually marked all over the bus that you are supposed to give up seats to disabled people or pregnant women, and yet some men don't want to move their bodies (and they want to make an issue of being asked), and some women don't want to move their purses/bags (and they want to make an issue out of being asked). I've experienced both. Everyone who behaves like this, regardless of sex, is a jerk. Yet we're supposed to applaud the person who made this dumb chair? Nope. It's stupid.

I already mentioned people that place their bag on more than one seat, I cite both as inconsiderate. The big difference is that you don't have a bunch of people complaining if you were to say, "Occupying an empty seat with your purse or bag," is inconsiderate, you're not going to have a bunch of whining and complaining about how it's more comfortable to place it on the adjacent seat as opposed to your lap. I'm pretty sure the action is more comfortable, but it's inconsiderate. But to suggest that it's uncomfortable to not manspread or place a purse on your lap is ridiculous.

 

[zippy2006]

I deny discomfort because these people are not manspreading everywhere else. If we saw this phenomena in places other than public transportation, you might have a point, but people are able to sit everywhere else with little issue. Additionally, if there really was an issue with discomfort, you'd see more of that reflected in ergonomic design of chairs.

One thing that is missed is the artist also created a chair to encourage the spreading of legs, chairs are not made this way either. The simple fact is that it is not uncomfortable to sit with your legs next to each other. Most people survive in other areas without manspreading, and that's the point, it's a behavior that does not consider others. It doesn't make you evil because you manspread, but it's helpful to not take up more than one seat.

I am a man, and the issue of comfort depends a great deal on factors such as heat and humidity. It is inconsiderate to take up too much space at the expense of others. On the other hand, there are anatomical differences between men and women that generate comfort-related differences in the manner of sitting. We don't need to deny this obvious fact in order to make a point about being considerate.

 

[Bob Crowley]

That's it! Never again am I putting the toilet seat down!!

 

[SummerMadness]

I am a man, and the issue of comfort depends a great deal on factors such as heat and humidity. It is inconsiderate to take up too much space at the expense of others. On the other hand, there are anatomical differences between men and women that generate comfort-related differences in the manner of sitting. We don't need to deny this obvious fact in order to make a point about the being considerate.

I am also a man, most of the public transportation I use is air conditioned and a relief to sit in. It's not the size of anything between your legs unless you have a health issue. If you have a health issue, spread away; however, that is not most men, they do it because they're not thinking of others around them, that is inconsiderate. I say the same thing of a woman with a large purse taking up a seat.

 

[SummerMadness]

That's it! Never again am I putting the toilet seat down!!

My attitude is everyone should look before they sit, but you should flush with the seat and covered closed, all that toilet water sprays droplets all over your bathroom. And if you don't have a WC, that means toilet water spritzed onto your toothbrush.

 

[Silmarien]

I already mentioned people that place their bag on more than one seat, I cite both as inconsiderate. The big difference is that you don't have a bunch of people complaining if you were to say, "Occupying an empty seat with your purse or bag," is inconsiderate, you're not going to have a bunch of whining and complaining about how it's more comfortable to place it on the adjacent seat as opposed to your lap. I'm pretty sure the action is more comfortable, but it's inconsiderate. But to suggest that it's uncomfortable to not manspread or place a purse on your lap is ridiculous.

Another potentially inconsiderate act that you see on buses and certain types of trains and subways: people intentionally sitting in the aisle seat, blocking access to the unoccupied window seat. There are legitimate reasons someone might do this--usually their stop is soon, and they want to be able to get off immediately--but it does mean that you usually need to ask if you want to take the seat next to them.

I think an underlying problem, both with this and "manspreading," is that some people--particularly women--are hesitant to ask someone to get up to let them through, or to move over a bit and not take up three seats, or to put their bag on the ground, and so forth and so on. People need to learn to be politely assertive when it comes to public transportation rather than passive aggressive about it after the fact.

 

[zippy2006]

...they do it because they're not thinking of others around them, that is inconsiderate.

No, they do it because it is comfortable, and they fail to to censure their desire for comfort due to inconsideration. You never gave an alternative motive.

I say the same thing of a woman with a large purse taking up a seat.

No, as I already noted, you think the woman with a large purse is acting on the basis of comfort, which you explicitly denied of men.

 

[~Zao~]

Gender design aside, that looks like one of the most uncomfortable "chairs" I have ever seen.

No kidding. Who sits like that? Knock kneed or what?

 

[zippy2006]

Another potentially inconsiderate act that you see on buses and certain types of trains and subways: people intentionally sitting in the aisle seat, blocking access to the unoccupied window seat.

My favorite is when you have someone blocking off an entire pew in church, and then the 12-child Catholic family comes along and causes them to slide down about 15 feet. ...or even better, when they won't budge and 12 snot-nosed kids are forced to swim and crawl over them to get to the open space. Who says Karma and Christianity don't mix?

 

[dzheremi]

I already mentioned people that place their bag on more than one seat, I cite both as inconsiderate. The big difference is that you don't have a bunch of people complaining if you were to say, "Occupying an empty seat with your purse or bag," is inconsiderate, you're not going to have a bunch of whining and complaining about how it's more comfortable to place it on the adjacent seat as opposed to your lap. I'm pretty sure the action is more comfortable, but it's inconsiderate. But to suggest that it's uncomfortable to not manspread or place a purse on your lap is ridiculous.

The big difference is that there's no way to design a chair that forces a woman (or a man, for that matter) to not put her bag on it that would still be usable as a seat. Both actions (spreading your legs to a wide distance and refusing to close them, and putting your bag down and refusing to move it) are equally inconsiderate, but only one is resulting in this stupid art project that is earning awards for making a tired point that we've all heard 500,000 times in the stupidest, ugliest way possible.

Again, this can be solved with 2 seconds of asking someone politely to not do what they're doing, out of consideration for other human beings. But no, let's make a big project all about it! That way it garners awards, write-ups in the news, blahblahblah, all for hitting the right feminist outrage buttons that get people (pro and anti) talking about it, as we ourselves are currently doing!

Whoops.

 

[dzheremi]

My favorite is when you have someone blocking off an entire pew in church, and then the 12-child Catholic family comes along

The phenomenon of the 12-child Catholic family might also be solved by the uncomfortable art chair...

 

[zippy2006]

The phenomenon of the 12-child Catholic family might also be solved by the uncomfortable art chair...

 

[Silmarien]

There are two chairs. One is for women. A woman is demonstrating it. The chair forces her legs outward. Why aren't you complaining about the inconsideration of that?

I understand that you mentioned purses right there, but your last 5 or so posts were all about how bad it is for men to relax their legs when seated with no mention that the other half of this "project" is designed to have women do the same thing which is inconsiderate for men to do. Half of the project and it was just ignored.

I think we should be complaining about the female chair, actually. I find the idea that women need to be "encouraged" to take up additional space pretty condescending--it makes the same error that radical feminism does by denying women agency and always forcing them into the role of the victim.

It also treats the standard male position like the default, which it really isn't for women. Being told that you're not taking up enough room simply because you're not sitting in a stereotypically masculine pose is actually hugely problematic from a feminist perspective.

Also, some of us actually still like skirts and dresses.