Feminism

[JackRT]

One of those curses being ... "having pain in childbirth" ?

That was not one of the two Biblical curses in Genesis.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.

This statement encapsulates the past, present, and future of mankind, the angels, and God's kingdom.

 

[durangodawood]

...Are you dismissing the spiritual associations of marriage? Hierarchy is a fact of life. The same holds true in the heavenly and demonic realms. God’s orderliness is manifest throughout creation. You can’t escape it. Even the animal kingdom demonstrates the same.....

As a general principle this gets too close to complacency in the face of autocracy, for me. I can think of numerous historical modes of hierarchy that I'm thankful were deposed.

 

[Silmarien]

That is no longer our fate. God has brought us into existence during a time when we have the ability to exercise discernment in our choice of mate.

Yes, but that is specifically thanks to feminism. If you are asking what the pros and cons of feminism are, we've hit upon a very important pro.

Are you dismissing the spiritual associations of marriage? Hierarchy is a fact of life. The same holds true in the heavenly and demonic realms. God’s orderliness is manifest throughout creation. You can’t escape it. Even the animal kingdom demonstrates the same.

No, I would view marriage as ideally sacramental. I see no reason why that needs to be hierarchical, though, and good reason why it should not be. We see hierarchical thinking turned on its head over and over again in the Gospel--Matthew 20:24-28 in particular comes to mind.

If you're conceiving the husband's authority as the husband actually serving the wife, then I think we're getting closer to the sort of mutual submission that I would consider the ideal. But then I'm again left wondering if we're using the right words to describe these things.

Reinforcing a man’s worthlessness and toxicity does the dirty work on their behalf. If you keep hearing someone’s useless and have bought the rhetoric you’ll eventually feel the same in time. The bible tells us that bad company corrupts good morals for a reason.

How does feminism reinforce a man's worthlessness? I've spent a considerably amount of time within the feminist movement, and despite its flaws, this is something I've never seen.

A good marriage is akin to good pilots. I board a plane with little concern for my welfare. I fly airlines with great safety records and customer service. I’m placing my life in their hands on every flight.

If the notion of doing the same with my spouse causes concern or leaves me quaking I need to have a heart to heart with God. I would expect my well-being would be a greater concern for him than the man flying the plane.

We encounter authority figures everyday and yield without complaint. But when it comes to marriage its another matter. I’d rather follow the man who loves me than a stranger who’s doing his job.

I don't see how this analogy works. A pilot is not really an authority figure--their function is to fly the plane, and the authority they wield over the crew and passengers is contingent upon that. I don't see what unique role a husband would be playing in a marriage that would automatically result in the same sort of authority applying.

If your conscience dictates such an arrangement, so be it, though again, I think the ideal is that the master/servant dichotomy breaks down to the point that the hierarchy disappears altogether.

 

[VCR-2000]

Feminism has had the effect of creating hostility between the two sexes where none would’ve existed otherwise.

Feminism is horrible.

The argument can be made that feminism is un-Christian because the Bible said in the beginning God created male and female to compliment each other.

 

[VCR-2000]

I think it is worthwhile to consider the past first. Before Christ, women were regarded as the property of men, not much better than cattle. Especially in the pagan world. The Mosaic Covenant gave more respect to women, but we need to remember what Jesus said to the Sadducees when they tried to entrap him. Divorce was permitted by Moses because of the hardness of their hearts. The Mosaic Covenant is a document for the unregenerate whose hearts were uncircumcised.

Jesus gave a new respect for women unknown to Israel. The disciples were astonished to find Jesus even talking to the Samaritan woman at the well. A recorded conversation, incidentally, which is the longest recorded conversation of Jesus to an single person in the New Testament.

The world remains hardened and it still influences the body of Christ today. But not always. The influence of the people of God on the world after the resurrection and ascension of Christ has mitigated the hard-hearted attitude of men regarding women as property. Mitigate means "lessen" not remove.

Feminism as a movement has its roots in the Fabian society of England whose goal is to set up a global communist government. Jane Addams was a Fabian who came to the USA and spearheaded suffrage then, later, prohibition. Communism wants to destroy families and marriages. The UN published a document years ago stating what was needed to create a global government.

I've lost the document, but remember the path. They understood that an intact family creates a local loyalty. Those with good home lives will place their loyalty first on their family, then on their neighborhood and local community. They have no loyalty to international organizations, and less for national or state governments.

When families are destroyed, loyalties are much easier to transfer over to abstract organizations farther removed from local affairs to national and international. This is why corporate media publish more news about international affairs than local, by the way.

Gloria Steinem, an early advocate of feminism, admits she was a CIA asset

.
The CIA has never been for the USA, but works for the globalist dynasties. Divide and conquer.

Are there positive aspects of feminism? Yes, but only on the side line. God never created women to subservient to men, but as co partners. While we are all complete as men or women, we are increased when joined together. In general, of course there are exceptions, but in general, women tend to have an eye for detail better than men, and men tend to see the big picture better than women. Mutual submission means mutual respect.

In general, Christianity has done more to liberate women, than the feminist movement.

Why did the Christians and traditionalists have to lose so badly that the ideologies that originate from that communism is seen in so many institutions today?

 

[VCR-2000]

I'm not happy with "isms" in general. I don't believe that feminism has achieved much. The social engineering taking place in education has made women stronger by denigrating and belittling men (in my part of the world at least). Many men are responding with aggression and resentment. I recall feminists complaining that men made them just sex objects. Now the way many women dress, they invite the charge of total hypocrisy and they have made themselves exactly what they profess to despise.
Men and women are different and have different roles. The western world rejects this. What do we expect? The spirit of Antichrist is exceedingly active.
Women are paying a huge price for their supposed freedoms. It's a shame. It's even worse when Christian women feel the need to throw out God's word and embrace the world's view of what it means to be a woman.

Even in the church there is a similar idea. Instead of using the word "misogyny" it uses the word "lust" instead. Men are accused of "lusting" both by church leaders and the secular world, which I think is just rich. But do these people ever think about context or where one's heart is?

 

[watchtower08]

When it comes to feminism, I'm surprised no one ever mentions the success of Zelophehad's daughters (Numbers 27). God would say something like, only a man can inherit the land, then they would petition Moses, who would bring their case before God, and get Him to include women.

 

[thecolorsblend]

The argument can be made that feminism is un-Christian because the Bible said in the beginning God created male and female to compliment each other.

Many Christians make that same claim. I've never thought arguments like that would be very compelling to others. Honestly, feminism has had such a negative impact on society that I don't really see much of a point in citing a religious objection to it.

 

[VCR-2000]

A great point. Women are naturally sexually attractive to men, then put that allure in overdrive through makeup and dress. And as physiologists point out they have an organ designed specifically for sexual pleasure, that men do not have. Women also have the ability to use sex as a 'lever' in relationships, especially in marriage.

And men being sexually attracted is considered yet another sin in the Christian religion itself too.

If men as a whole acted Godly towards women there wouldn't have been a need for a movement. Jesus was radically pro woman but some of the early church fathers and reformers seemed misogynist by comparison. Just google 'misogynistic quotes by the early church fathers.'

But, women don't seem to make it easy on one another, at least in the USA.

'Misogynist — A man who hates women as much as women hate other women.'

Was Jesus radically pro-man too?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

... I used to teach some on Feminism at a university several years back for a short time, and as I told my student then I just briefly assert now: we all need to keep in mind that Feminism isn't a Single Thing and it has various expressions, applications and intensities of devotion within it. So, we kind of need to realize that some of what is "in" may, sometimes, carry some Christian value within it. Just not all of it, obviously.

In a nutshell, though: Guys [Men!]....honor and treat (and love) our women well. That will solve half of the problems we have with gender conflict alone. [What? You men say that's impossible?! ]

 

[VCR-2000]

There's truth to that. Rejection, or lack of opportunity, to have sex can have a harmful effect on a man's ego, leading to hostility.

Yep, but the picture is that and still bigger.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And men being sexually attracted is considered yet another sin in the Christian religion itself too.

Sexual attraction is a normal human response and an important part of courtship. It just has to be controlled by both. Firm social proprieties in that regard are very helpful. Sadly they are all but gone in this age.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

... I used to teach some on Feminism at a university several years back for a short time, and as I told my student then I just briefly assert now: we all need to keep in mind that Feminism isn't a Single Thing and it has various expressions, applications and intensities of devotion within it. So, we kind of need to realize that some of what is "in" may, sometimes, carry some Christian value within it. Just not all of it, obviously.

In a nutshell, though: Guys [Men!]....honor and treat (and love) our women well. That will solve half of the problems we have with gender conflict alone. [What? You men say that's impossible?! ]

Women are the gatekeepers, and should keep a good lock on the gate.

 

[VCR-2000]

While it was new it challenged the male bias against women and the unequal, unfair pay practises.
This was needed.
But it has gone on to promote sexual permisivnes, divorce and contempt for men.
Strangly many women have recognised that thesel have not brought them happiness.

Sexual permissiveness...mostly if you were a woman.

 

[VCR-2000]

Extreme forms of equality do not care if you earned something or if you have some superior skill. No one can be too high above others because it's unfair to everyone who is average. The Russian communist did not like the Ukrainian farmers and so they stole their land and caused a famine.

Strange, the Christian idea of Heaven sounds like God doesn't want anyone to be too high above relative to others in his own kingdom either. Basically a cosmic version of that idea, even though many say they think it's an undesirable and repulsive idea down here.

 

[VCR-2000]

It isn't acceptable for men to be oppressed. I just don't think that is happening.

Men live in a world that has been carefully crafted for them to be dominant. They fear loosing that dominance. But it is important to understand that loosing one's dominance is not the same thing as being oppressed.

Couple the issue of women striving to achieve equality with minorities striving for the same goal, it is understandable that white men especially feel like they are being attacked from all sides.

Men in general and especially white men in America have a long history of being raised from children that it is their exclusive role in society to be the 'provider' for their family units. The religion of America teaches that and the culture of America teaches that.

The sexes have long been forced into roles that may or may not suit each and every person. Feminism is the force which says that the women in America have the same 'right' to be the breadwinner for the family as a man. And the converse is also true, men have the same 'right' to be the keeper of the home and raiser of the children as a woman.

Sexual stereotypes are every bit as corrosive to a culture as are racial stereotypes.

Just a question, why is that a societal structure based on one sex (or almost any category really) inherently evil or bad? I'm not promoting either way one or the other opinion about such a structure, I'm just asking this question.

 

[VCR-2000]

Sexual attraction is a normal human response and an important part of courtship. It just has to be controlled by both. Firm social proprieties in that regard are very helpful. Sadly they are all but gone in this age.

I think part of sexual relationships outside of marriage (as the traditionally religious ideal) has evolved as response because marriage and the whole dynamic of finding someone attractive was ruined by feminism. I see part of it as symptom or a way to deal with the main problem.

 

[Tanj]

The feminist movement promised equality and choice for women. Has it achieved its aim?

Possibly. The problem is it should have been aiming for equity instead.

 

[Chris V++]

Was Jesus radically pro-man too?

Sure. But He was pretty stern with the religious hypocrites.

Here's an essay about how he treated women differently which was radical in context of cultural norms of those times.
Jesus’ Extraordinary Treatment of Women