Female elders in the LCMS?

[Tangible]

I had never in all my long history in the LCMS (about 6 months ) heard of women elders. Check out this post from Steadfast Lutherans below. (Scan down to the second block quote if you can't be bothered to read the whole thing.)

Sounds like a touch of PLI or hyper-euroism might do this congregation some good, regardless of what you may think about them otherwise.

The Brothers of John the Steadfast More Potty-Talk from the Northern Illinois District and a Description of an LCMS Congregation You Won’t Believe; Further Proof of a Downward Slide Toward the Culture, by Pr. Rossow

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

When I was in the LCMS we had female elders.

Pax

 

[porterross]

Any LCMS I've been to (as a life long Lutheran ), had male elders and the idea of them being female doesn't make sense. If women are assisting with the distribution of Holy Communion (which elders typically do), it brings up a whole host of issues, but it does show how far removed some congregations have been allowed to become and why things are so disjointed within in the synod. It's truly sad that my grandfather's church is becoming unrecognizable.

 

[DaRev]

It depends on what the Board of Elders duties are in each congregation. There is no Biblical mandate for the office of elder, thus there is no hard fast rule as to what their duties should be. That is left up to the individual congregation. It is basically a man-made office in the church.

That being said, it must also be stated that women are not to perform any of the functions of the pastoral office, nor are they to have any oversight or public accountability of the functions of the pastoral office. If the board of elders are responsible for assisting with the functions of the office (Sacrament, discipline, etc.) or have direct public accountability over the functions of the office, women cannot hold that office.

If, however, those specific functions are handled by another board (board of deacons, etc.) or a team of pastors, and the board of elders is just involved with organizational matters within the congregation, there is no reason why women cannot serve.

 

[RadMan]

Any LCMS I've been to (as a life long Lutheran ), had male elders and the idea of them being female doesn't make sense. If women are assisting with the distribution of Holy Communion (which elders typically do), it brings up a whole host of issues, but it does show how far removed some congregations have been allowed to become and why things are so disjointed within in the synod. It's truly sad that my grandfather's church is becoming unrecognizable.

Last year at our reunion in St.Louis we went to communion Saturday night at St.Trinity in Soulard. The pastor had women helping distribute the bread and wine. I stayed out of those lines.

 

[Tangible]

Last year at our reunion in St.Louis we went to communion Saturday night at St.Trinity in Soulard.

(Hehe. In French "soulard" means drunkard.)

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

It depends on what the Board of Elders duties are in each congregation. There is no Biblical mandate for the office of elder, thus there is no hard fast rule as to what their duties should be. That is left up to the individual congregation. It is basically a man-made office in the church.

That being said, it must also be stated that women are not to perform any of the functions of the pastoral office, nor are they to have any oversight or public accountability of the functions of the pastoral office. If the board of elders are responsible for assisting with the functions of the office (Sacrament, discipline, etc.) or have direct public accountability over the functions of the office, women cannot hold that office.

If, however, those specific functions are handled by another board (board of deacons, etc.) or a team of pastors, and the board of elders is just involved with organizational matters within the congregation, there is no reason why women cannot serve.

I am sorry for butting in here...I just love reading this fourm.

What do you mean by:

There is no Biblical mandate for the office of elder,

Just curious.
I'm presbyterian...and we see a biblical mandate. (1 Timothy 4:14)

Anyway...thanks for any info.

 

[Tangible]

I am sorry for butting in here...I just love reading this forum.

Not at all. You're more than welcome!


(And might I say Wow! What a big signature you have there.)

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Last year at our reunion in St.Louis we went to communion Saturday night at St.Trinity in Soulard. The pastor had women helping distribute the bread and wine. I stayed out of those lines.

Why would you stay out of those lines?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

It depends on what the Board of Elders duties are in each congregation. There is no Biblical mandate for the office of elder, thus there is no hard fast rule as to what their duties should be. That is left up to the individual congregation. It is basically a man-made office in the church.

That being said, it must also be stated that women are not to perform any of the functions of the pastoral office, nor are they to have any oversight or public accountability of the functions of the pastoral office. If the board of elders are responsible for assisting with the functions of the office (Sacrament, discipline, etc.) or have direct public accountability over the functions of the office, women cannot hold that office.

If, however, those specific functions are handled by another board (board of deacons, etc.) or a team of pastors, and the board of elders is just involved with organizational matters within the congregation, there is no reason why women cannot serve.

Thanks Rev.

There are two LCMS English District congregations here in Ontario who have recently re-instated male only Elders.

Mark.

 

[RadMan]

Why would you stay out of those lines?

The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Task force completes guidelines on women's service

"The guidelines, prepared by a special task force, will be included as an appendix to a 1994 report of the Commission on Theology and Church Relations (CTCR) that is being published now in booklet form for the first time. The conclusions of that report, "The Service of Women in Congregational and Synodical Offices," were affirmed by the convention."

"Scripture does not prohibit women who possess the requisite gifts from holding these humanly established offices, assuming that the occupants of these offices do not 'perform those functions that are distinctive to the public exercise of the ministry of Word and sacraments,'" the CTCR responded to Minnesota South's questions.

Regarding the office of "elder," the CTCR's response refers to its 1994 report. That report notes that in LCMS congregations, elders historically "work closely with the pastor in his divinely assigned responsibility to feed the whole congregation with the Word of God and to watch over it for the sake of its spiritual welfare." In such situations, the report says, "women may not serve in this office."

• the term "elder" be reserved for the congregational office assigned to assisting the pastor "in the public exercise of the distinctive functions" of the pastoral office;
• in the words of a 1989 Synod convention resolution, "to avoid confusion regarding the office of the public ministry and to avoid giving offense to the church," only lay men assist in distributing the elements in the Lord's Supper; and
• while there are situations in which it is desirable or necessary for women to be in leadership position in the congregation, "men be encouraged to continue to exercise leadership in their congregations even as they are encouraged to exercise their God-given leadership in a God-pleasing manner in their homes."

 

[wildboar]

I'm pretty sure that the congregation I belong to would never have female elders. I understand the thinking behind the decision to allow female elders but I still think it's a bad idea. I don't think any church body (even Presbyterians) have elders and deacons function in the same way that the Scriptures have them function. Still, I think it's confusing to take a term such as elder which in the Scriptures seem to refer to people who were working full time as elders and paid and then apply to some group that really functions more like a board of directors in a business. I really think that it opens the door to women's ordination.

 

[porterross]

Why would you stay out of those lines?

The same reason I would, if I would get in any line in such an environment at all, that is.

 

[DaRev]

Just curious.
I'm presbyterian...and we see a biblical mandate. (1 Timothy 4:14)

Anyway...thanks for any info.

The term "elder" in the NT is not the same as an elder in a congregation. A board of elders in a congregation would be more in line with the diaconate, basically assistants or "table waiters". There is no command for such an office to exist in the church.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Are those of you who are against female elders also opposed to women being ushers and acolytes? Not trying to start a debate, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

in the words of a 1989 Synod convention resolution, "to avoid confusion regarding the office of the public ministry and to avoid giving offense to the church," only lay men assist in distributing the elements in the Lord's Supper.

So a lot of LCMS congregrations are going against Synod then...not cool.

 

[WildStrawberry]

LH, I loved being an acolyte when I was confirmation aged. I "assisted" at the communion table ONLY in picking up the empty shot glasses. That ended when we got the common cup.

However, I don't care for Women ushers at all and our usher team has none. Women's Guild ushers once a year but I've made my feelings known about that and they don't ask me anymore. (I'm also the Christian Growth person for my WG...)

Women Elders are RIGHT OUT. Our Elders assist with Pastoral Duties. They visit the members when Pastor isn't able to get there and the help with other duties such as reading the lessons (except for the Gospel...that's read by Pastor) and during the Prayer of the Church.

We have a couple of women trustees but they only take care of things like turning on the stove in our kitchen (we have a MASSIVE 10 burner gas stove!) and organizing the different clean up days and stuff like that.

So, to answer your question Yes I'm against women ushers (just preference of tastes I guess) and I'm for Girls being Acolytes. It also introduces them in to serving the Church for Altar Guild and even has piqued the interest of some for going into full time church service such as being a Deaconess or Director of Christian Ed.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Can I ask a question, why is it that women cannot assist in communion or other "pastoral duties"?
The reason I ask is because it seems strange to me that if it is because the office of pastor is strictly for males, why do they not consider other qualifications of pastors when it comes to communion. What if the elder was involved in a divorce that was deemed "unlawful" or other various expectations of who is qualified to fill the pastorate? What is it that distinguishes those qualifications from the qualification of gender.

Please do not take this as debating, I am just curious as to why there is such a distinction.

Pax

 

[wildboar]

I know that there are lots of LCMS church with little girls serving as acolytes but historically serving as an acolyte was viewed as preparation for the ministry and so I think it's best to give girls other things to do. Probably even more LCMS churches including the one I belong to have women exclusively serving in the altar guild but historically this has not been the case either. I do think it's better to have men or boys perform these functions but I don't think it's something to leave a church over.

 

[Lupinus]

Female acolytes are fine IMO. Their only role in communion is moving some supplies from a holding area to the Pastor at the alter, they don't help actually distribute. To be a bit more technical perhaps, they handle the elements before the blessing and don't handle them again until the last person has taken communion. It's debatable when Christs body and blood become present and when it is no longer present, so they could then arguably be even further removed from assisting in communion.