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Feeling stuck between churches

Feb 28, 2017
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At this point, I am going through confirmation in the Episcopal Church, which will end in my being confirmed at the Easter Vigil this year. Whatever tradition I choose, I am quite sure that I am leaving the Episcopal Church. The main reason is the upcoming new prayer book (which lacks the traditional service that I've grown to love and will contain a new marriage rite that is "inclusive" of gay couples),but I've also noticed that we've spent more time talking about social justice and "the Christian response" to news items than we have about Christ, which seems just wrong.If I do stay an Anglican, it will be in ACNA or the Anglican Mission.

But that isn't certain either. Although I generally agree, for the most part, with the Articles of Religion, there is some discord. The faith/works issue is something I struggle with, and I do believe, despite the Articles, that councils of the Church, when representing all bishops, are infallible by their nature. The trouble is more with worship and liturgical practices. I hold a doctrine of the Eucharist,that while allowed by the Articles, nonetheless clashes with the beliefs of most Anglicans. I thus wish to show reverence towards the Blessed Sacrament, which according to traditional Anglican
teaching, is idolatry. I however believe that as Anglican priests are theoretically required to believe in the Real Presence, that not adoring the Sacrament is a most shameful and impious blasphemy. I also support the use of liturgical items considered taboo by Anglicans, thus I support priests wearing stoles, copes, dalmatics,etc. and the liturgical use of incense, both of which are frowned upon by conservative Anglicans.


Thus, my natural reaction is to ponder going Romeward. The problem is, despite having read through countless apologetic tracts, as well as catechisms, there are some Roman Catholic doctrines which I just cannot accept, chiefly Papal Infallibility, the Immaculate Conception, and the bread-and-wine-no-longer-exist part of transubstantiation. I also have qualms about the idea of Mary as Co-Redemptorix, although I realize that it is not dogma, I just feel like it's something I could never subscribe to. There is also the issue, though this isn't peculiar to Catholicism, that Western theology is too scholastic and reliant on classical philosophy, when sometimes I feel it would be better to embrace the mystery of faith rather than nit-pick the details. This is especially true of things like predestination and transubstantiation.

For these reasons, I've also considered Eastern Orthodoxy. It has all of the Catholic doctrines I accept, plus a gorgeous liturgy. My only concerns are my perceived difficulty in finding a parish with services in English, and adapting to the Byzantine calendar and worship structure, which is much more different from what I'm used to than the Latin rite. I also have a nagging sense, though I feel kind of stupid about it, that because my whole family are Western Christians, I would be rejecting my cultural identity by becoming Orthodox. But, for now, the good things about Orthdoxy outweigh those in my mind.

So there you have it. I am stuck in the middle between Anglicanism, Catholicism, and Orthodoxy, feeling very unsure, and could use some advice from Orthodox believers as I've already spoken to Anglicans and Catholics. Thank you all in advance
smile.gif


God Bless,
DeusExMachina
 
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~Anastasia~

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Welcome to CF, and welcome to TAW!

I can see why you would be interested in Orthodoxy, as it seems to basically hit the high points of your concerns with every other option.

I wouldn't want to brush away anyone's concerns, but I am reminded that while I was inquiring into Orthodoxy, I was put into a bit of travel with a man who was Native American, and when he learned my Grandmother was Cherokee, spent the entire time trying to argue me into becoming Mormon, because he felt that was the Christianity historic to the Natives. It wasn't enough of a reason for me to consider it for even a moment.

As to parishes, are there many near you? When I get back on my computer (or probably someone will beat me to it) we can get you a list of canonical parishes. Sometimes they are there and you don't even realize. A priest friend mentioned on FB there is a WR parish just over an hour from me, and I had no idea. I'm staying where I am, but I was curious to experience a WR Liturgy.

And then I guess it depends. Our parish is very conservative about Greek (most of our parishioners are first generation immigrants and a few don't even speak English) but the services are about half in English, and alternate, so every other week you would hear the parts of the litany that were in Greek, in English. The readings and homily are always in English. They hymns are mostly in Greek, but as I'm learning the translation, I really love it anyway.

Lol, sorry, tmi. I just meant to say that even a conservative ethnic parish could surprise you. :)

I can't speak to getting used to the Byzantine style. I absolutely love it, but I don't have much to compare it to liturgically. You could always give it a chance though. Most people seem to be very pleasantly surprised, or even awed. Maybe some are unfavorable, but if so I guess they've been too polite to say so. But I think the only thing is to come and see ... :)

Maybe too long a post, but I wanted to welcome you to CF and to TAW. :)

If you have specific concerns or questions, I'm sure some of the helpful and knowledgeable folks here will be glad to help. :)

God be with you!
 
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Minoa

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Some of my family are as super traditional as it even gets, and often, this church they attended in the middle of nowhere was very judgemental of younger churches, I forgot what the said specifically, but they looked down on them as if they never even got to know anyone there or what it was about. Small things like using instruments, having newer music, etc. Their focus was only on the small rural community, while others are more open to and have to evolve to be able to relate to new issues and different ethics as they come up....so they are quite different in that way at least, their social demographics are far apart. I just try to focus what matters most: we all apparently follow the same God. If we cannot get along, how on earth are we supposed to be a good example to atheists? they probably think we are not trustworthy if we cannot even agree to treat each other decently, so why should they bother listening to us, especially if they think all of us are the same anyway?

Anyway, we are called to not live by legalism. Getting OCD (I'm sure some people may literally grow real ocd symptoms if they dwell on it day in and day out) over legalism is not at all what God wants for us, he also tells us not to worry. Even if he didn't tell us, there is nothing healthy about getting too caught up in it.....it is basically missing the point, and since we unable to be perfect, how can we do any of that perfectly?

I do get a bit caught up at times though regarding works, especially since doing them itself can be hard, and very very vague these days. Do what? what is "good", and what is "works"?. You feel left to figure all that in detail on your own. One clue I read from a book is to take a look at what you seem to have a passion for in life, especially from way back early on, as if it was almost born into you if you got some of those, and go back to not only doing that, but finding a way to serve with it. For one though, it is "doing good", so maybe just even helping someone out or donating your old clothes to a youth shelter, is doing good. don't overlook the small things that make a huge difference to people who worry more about whether or not they may last one more night in an abusive home or on the street. When we focus more on these things, arguing over details does nothing for people who need help.

If I finally get it down now, it's that we should do them, but simply out of our character of who we have become, to express who we are by what we do. However, we are not 'saved' by them. It still though gets confusing at times when you keep hearing different variations preached to you, or basically "so, what exactly should I do? how often? when, where?"...rather frustrating. Try to stick with your gut: what feels right to you? if gives you a bad feeling, maybe you should take a look at it. If anything, I don't buy that tithing 10 percent stuff....I was taught elsewhere. say, to give what you in your heart are willing to give, no less and no more. Reluctance breeds resentment.
 
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Welcome to CF, and welcome to TAW!

I can see why you would be interested in Orthodoxy, as it seems to basically hit the high points of your concerns with every other option.

I wouldn't want to brush away anyone's concerns, but I am reminded that while I was inquiring into Orthodoxy, I was put into a bit of travel with a man who was Native American, and when he learned my Grandmother was Cherokee, spent the entire time trying to argue me into becoming Mormon, because he felt that was the Christianity historic to the Natives. It wasn't enough of a reason for me to consider it for even a moment.

As to parishes, are there many near you? When I get back on my computer (or probably someone will beat me to it) we can get you a list of canonical parishes. Sometimes they are there and you don't even realize. A priest friend mentioned on FB there is a WR parish just over an hour from me, and I had no idea. I'm staying where I am, but I was curious to experience a WR Liturgy.

And then I guess it depends. Our parish is very conservative about Greek (most of our parishioners are first generation immigrants and a few don't even speak English) but the services are about half in English, and alternate, so every other week you would hear the parts of the litany that were in Greek, in English. The readings and homily are always in English. They hymns are mostly in Greek, but as I'm learning the translation, I really love it anyway.

Lol, sorry, tmi. I just meant to say that even a conservative ethnic parish could surprise you. :)

I can't speak to getting used to the Byzantine style. I absolutely love it, but I don't have much to compare it to liturgically. You could always give it a chance though. Most people seem to be very pleasantly surprised, or even awed. Maybe some are unfavorable, but if so I guess they've been too polite to say so. But I think the only thing is to come and see ... :)

Maybe too long a post, but I wanted to welcome you to CF and to TAW. :)

If you have specific concerns or questions, I'm sure some of the helpful and knowledgeable folks here will be glad to help. :)

God be with you!
Thank you. There are a few Greek churches near where I live, a Serbian church, and there was a Romanian that has closed down (a pity, because I'm quite good with Romance languages). I could swear there was an OCA parish that I've driven past a couple times, but when I look on the internet I dont see anything
 
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ArmyMatt

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as an ex-Anglican I feel your pain to a degree

My only concerns are my perceived difficulty in finding a parish with services in English, and adapting to the Byzantine calendar and worship structure, which is much more different from what I'm used to than the Latin rite.

don't fret over this one. even most ethnic parishes tend to use a lot of English nowadays. OCA, Antiochian, and the Greeks (especially the first two) are the two most American jurisdictions in the US. the Byzantine calendar would not be much of an issue. OCA, Antiochian, and Greeks are all on the "New" Calendar, which means only Lent through Pentecost would be different.

I also have a nagging sense, though I feel kind of stupid about it, that because my whole family are Western Christians, I would be rejecting my cultural identity by becoming Orthodox. But, for now, the good things about Orthdoxy outweigh those in my mind.

no, no, no. the first millennium of Western saints are ours. no need to give up your Western heritage to become Orthodox.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Try this website to see if that OCA really is there, or maybe something else you hadn't noticed?

Directory of Parishes
And what do you know ... that ROCOR parish I never got a reply from is still there, and according to their website they just got a priest a couple of days ago, so I guess it IS going to be up and running! Old calendar too, of course. Too far to go often - just a hair under 100 miles - but I could visit. I'm still not seeing the WR parish a priest on FB mentioned being there.
 
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