Feeling Overwhelmed

[Jenniewren]

Praying darkwing

 

[cory533]

Still praying for you. I recomend praying for God to work on her and for Him to show you how to change to be a better husband. not how to make her love you more or any of that crud but to just be a better husband wether she deserves it or not. I have seen the biggest changes in my marriage when I have done this. As I focus on getting me where God wants me then He deals with her.Either way I win because it makes me a better man.

 

[darkwing70]

Still praying for you. I recomend praying for God to work on her and for Him to show you how to change to be a better husband. not how to make her love you more or any of that crud but to just be a better husband wether she deserves it or not. I have seen the biggest changes in my marriage when I have done this. As I focus on getting me where God wants me then He deals with her.Either way I win because it makes me a better man.

That is great advice Cory. I have been praying for wisdom to be a better husband and father all along, and I am seeing things in ways I never did before. Sometimes it is extremely hard to follow the Lord's direction and just keep my mouth shut, but he's giving me patience and the self control I need. When I asked for prayer for my wife what I was really asking for was for the Lord to soften her heart toward Him, not me.

 

[cory533]

That is great advice Cory. I have been praying for wisdom to be a better husband and father all along, and I am seeing things in ways I never did before. Sometimes it is extremely hard to follow the Lord's direction and just keep my mouth shut, but he's giving me patience and the self control I need. When I asked for prayer for my wife what I was really asking for was for the Lord to soften her heart toward Him, not me.

I soooo can relate.

 

[stillchanging]

Wow! Good to know I am not alone in this! I am 42 yrs old, been married since 1992, but most of my marriage has not been happy. I was first saved in the late 80s...I remember being close to God, running from sin, allthough failing at times....I have a past as a drug user,started doing drugs when I was in highschool. After being saved, and comming to Jesus, I forsook the drug life. But relapse happened time and time again. My wife and I met in a homeless shelter in San diego....I had relapsed again when we met. she knew these things because i told her all about it. after being married about a year, I relapsed again. This was to be a continuing cycle of quitting and using. Presently, I have been off the drugs a long time, but she never has forgiven me. She is not a christian, doesnt want to believe in the truth...only her version of the truth. didnt mean to post so much here....more later. thanks for being part of this forum.

 

[cory533]

Wow! Good to know I am not alone in this! I am 42 yrs old, been married since 1992, but most of my marriage has not been happy. I was first saved in the late 80s...I remember being close to God, running from sin, allthough failing at times....I have a past as a drug user,started doing drugs when I was in highschool. After being saved, and comming to Jesus, I forsook the drug life. But relapse happened time and time again. My wife and I met in a homeless shelter in San diego....I had relapsed again when we met. she knew these things because i told her all about it. after being married about a year, I relapsed again. This was to be a continuing cycle of quitting and using. Presently, I have been off the drugs a long time, but she never has forgiven me. She is not a christian, doesnt want to believe in the truth...only her version of the truth. didnt mean to post so much here....more later. thanks for being part of this forum.

Welcome! you must be new if you think that was a long post. join us in the check in thread that's where we usually hang out. check out the intro page to see who we are & feel free to post your story if you feel so inclined. if it's not too personal, how long clean and sober? every day is a little victory. I will be praying for you and your wife. God can restore your marriage he delights in such things but even with grace and forgiveness you have set things in motion that you need to counter. will she see a counselor either with you or not? if you can influence her to see some one who is a Christian but may be a secular councilor at least you get some biblical perspective. see what I mean about long posts? and I'm not feeling especially chatty today.
Peace in Christ,
Cory
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[irishman82]

Hi Darkwing,

I myself am going through an "unofficial" separation, my wife is at home with her parents and I have nobody here, her entire family doesn't talk to me right now...

This morning I was depressed and felt like I didn't want to work...I speak about some of my issues with some people that I think care for me at work and some of them give me their support so I don't fall for depression, they know I am taking anti depressants, so they try to help the best they can.

That helps but what most helped me the most is I kept praying every time I was back in my area by myself, whispering to myself I'd keep praying the same lines over and over... I'd address God in different ways: My heavenly father, My lord my king and my God... out of many others, then I'd pray for my wife and daughter and I'd end up the prayer with asking for forgiveness of my sins, that he may guard me on the warm palm of his hand and always take care of me, that he makes me a better disciple of his and he keeps the devil away from me.

At one point late morning my anxiety symptoms after praying so much, went away... I felt God's love in my body, I didn't feel so dragged to the ground, nor difficulty breathing like I usually have with anxiety. The Lord cares for us, like our father he is we ask him and pray to him, we seek and we find... It's a way to nag him to get to do something for you... Like you'd nag your earthly father to buy you something when you were a kid.

Praying helps.

 

[free4all]

Wow! Good to know I am not alone in this! I am 42 yrs old, been married since 1992, but most of my marriage has not been happy. I was first saved in the late 80s...I remember being close to God, running from sin, allthough failing at times....I have a past as a drug user,started doing drugs when I was in highschool. After being saved, and comming to Jesus, I forsook the drug life. But relapse happened time and time again. My wife and I met in a homeless shelter in San diego....I had relapsed again when we met. she knew these things because i told her all about it. after being married about a year, I relapsed again. This was to be a continuing cycle of quitting and using. Presently, I have been off the drugs a long time, but she never has forgiven me. She is not a christian, doesnt want to believe in the truth...only her version of the truth. didnt mean to post so much here....more later. thanks for being part of this forum.

Hi Stillchanging. Welcome to the forum!

 

[pete56]

Wow! Good to know I am not alone in this! I am 42 yrs old, been married since 1992, but most of my marriage has not been happy. I was first saved in the late 80s...I remember being close to God, running from sin, allthough failing at times....I have a past as a drug user,started doing drugs when I was in highschool. After being saved, and comming to Jesus, I forsook the drug life. But relapse happened time and time again. My wife and I met in a homeless shelter in San diego....I had relapsed again when we met. she knew these things because i told her all about it. after being married about a year, I relapsed again. This was to be a continuing cycle of quitting and using. Presently, I have been off the drugs a long time, but she never has forgiven me. She is not a christian, doesnt want to believe in the truth...only her version of the truth. didnt mean to post so much here....more later. thanks for being part of this forum.

Hey Brother!

Welcome to UY at CF!

Come and join us in the Check in thread, we don't bite (often!) and we can offer support and advice in many areas! I am not aware of other ex drug users here, but I do know there are a number of us that are ex addicts of one form or other! and the results can be almost as devastating emotionally and relationally!

So come on in and join us!

Pete

 

[DZoolander]

I haven't read all of the replies - since CF is screwing up and the page formatting is becoming weird...lol I know this is five pages down - so maybe this all has been resolved. This is to the OP, however, just in case.

There's a fine line between expressing your faith - and becoming a jerk in the process. I know everyone running around seems to think that they've got it right - but the fact that there's lack of true consensus (as evidenced by there being more denominations than you can shake a stick at) combined with everyone's seeming sense of "authority" on what God wants - proves to me that nobody really knows what they're talking about.

If you married this woman - then changed the rules after marrying her - and suddenly became all full of hellfire and brimstone - referring to her as "not being saved" - I can see where she might get pretty upset with you. Having my wife suddenly shift into a bible thumping zealot after marrying me - implying that suddenly she thought I was "impure" - that our relationship was born in sin - that I was wrong in how I chose to worship - etc etc - all of that would make me want to get as far away from her as possible.

...especially since I firmly believe that she'd be wrong.

I'd be very upset if she was referring to me as being "unsaved" - because I did not choose to worship how she chose to worship. I'd be very upset if she walked around trying to indoctrinate our children into worshiping *her way* (because it's not the RIGHT way - it's simply HER way) - and suggesting that because our child was complying to her wishes - that he was closer to salvation than me. I'd be very upset if my wife had no respect for my point of view - and believed that I was to be damned for mine.

It sounds like you're guilty of all of that...and if that's all true...I can see why your wife is upset. You changed the rules midway through on her. You went from telling her that she was beautiful, special and wonderful, to telling her that she was unclean, unworthy, and damned. Instead of turning to her when you were depressed, in her eyes, you turned into a zealot and turned *on* her...and now you're indoctrinating HER children (because they are HER children as well) with that same nonsense.

None of that is good...

Is it good you found faith? Absolutely. But - don't think that you've got it "right". You believe how you choose to believe. You believe in the way that suits you - and helps you. Keep in mind, however, that yours isn't the only path.

 

[Jenniewren]

Hi Ezoolander,
I understand that many people feel Christians think they must be "better" than others because the Christian message is not an easy one to hear.
Most of us do not think we are better than others, in fact we have admitted we are sinners and need help. We know we are not perfect or always right as well.
Those of us in UY marriages work very hard to ensure our spouses do not get the mistaken idea we believe we are better than they are. For example, even though I have shared the Christian gospel with my husband he has no idea that I feel I am UY or what it means. I do not preach fire and brimstone to him or tell him he is a sinner. I try my best to show him Jesus' love and forgivness. I can only speak for myself, but having got to know the other people in this group I am sure they feel the same way.
God Bless You

 

[free4all]

I haven't read all of the replies

nobody really knows what they're talking about.

Does this include you?

If you married this woman - then changed the rules after marrying her

Do you expect no changes whatsoever when two young people get married?

and suddenly became all full of hellfire and brimstone

If you had read the entire thread, you would have found no account of him detailing anything like you just described. Is there something from your past you are projecting?

- referring to her as "not being saved" - I can see where she might get pretty upset with you.

EZ, are you a Christian? You have no Christian symbol next to your name, nor do you mention anything about Christ or God in your personal info. As far as the term of "not being saved", it is what it is. If you don't like it... sorry.

Having my wife suddenly shift into a bible thumping zealot

I think that's an unfair characterization of the OP, based on the information he has provided.

after marrying me - implying that suddenly she thought I was "impure" - that our relationship was born in sin - that I was wrong in how I chose to worship - etc etc - all of that would make me want to get as far away from her as possible.

...especially since I firmly believe that she'd be wrong.

So, you are entitled to a firm opinion on religious matters, but the OP isn't?

I'd be very upset if she was referring to me as being "unsaved" - because I did not choose to worship how she chose to worship.

That's not what the OP said. You really need to read closer, and stop adding your own words to the OP's post.

I'd be very upset if she walked around trying to indoctrinate our children into worshiping *her way* (because it's not the RIGHT way - it's simply HER way)

So you are an authority on how to worship the RIGHT way? What makes you a greater authority than the OP for what goes on in his family? Until very recently, the OP's wife worshipped on Sunday morning by staying in bed. The OP took his children to church. Yet you criticize him for this.

- and suggesting that because our child was complying to her wishes - that he was closer to salvation than me.

If you had shown no interest in God for at least 12 years, and your wife was actively seeking God, she might be right.

I'd be very upset if my wife had no respect for my point of view

That's exactly how the OP feels, that his wife has no respect for his point of view. You just proved his point.

- and believed that I was to be damned for mine.

Some people will be damned for their views, according to the Bible.

It sounds like you're guilty of all of that

You added quite a bit to his post that wasn't there, and then you convicted him of it. Why are you so eager to judge and condemn?

You changed the rules midway through on her.

Again, do you expect people to never change? Do you think his wife changed any since they married? She married him "for better or for worse." I can think of a lot of things worse than a man seeking God and trying to raise his children and lead his wife into a closer relationship with God. If you had read all his posts, you would have read that his wife didn't attend church for 12 years since they married. It is admirable that he would take his children to church and ask his wife to come.

You went from telling her that she was beautiful, special and wonderful, to telling her that she was unclean, unworthy, and damned.

Can you show me where he said all that? I must have missed it. He's asking her to go to church with him. How do you get "unclean, unworthy, and damned" out of that? You stretched the OP's words so far they broke. If you want any credibility at all, a good start would be to stop putting words in the OP's mouth.

Instead of turning to her when you were depressed

Read the posts, EZ. She isn't interested in helping him with his depression.

you turned into a zealot

What is your definition of a zealot? One who desires to seek God? One who desires his family to know God and learn about Him? If that is your definition, please include me.

and turned *on* her

He's trying to help her. Do you realize that? Do you consider yourself a Christian?

...and now you're indoctrinating HER children

Wrong. THEIR children. That means he also has input in how they are raised.

You've used "indoctrinating" more than once. Do you see teaching children about God as indoctrinating? Are you a Christian?

with that same nonsense.

What "nonsense"? Teaching about God? I'll ask again: are you a Christian?

None of that is good...

And neither is your advice.

don't think that you've got it "right".

Are you an authority on the OP's beliefs? What makes you an authority? You didn't even read the thread, according to you.

Keep in mind, however, that yours isn't the only path.

You are correct. There are many paths that are wrong. But seeking God, which is what the OP is doing, is a far better path than ignoring God, which is what his wife did for at least 12 years.

So far, EZ, all I see from your advice is criticism. I don't see you advocating any path other than the OP minding his own business. I've got news for you, EZ: his family IS his business.

What experience do you have living with an unsaved wife? Or are you unsaved yourself?

Do you have anything to offer the OP other than criticism?

Are you a Christian?

 

[darkwing70]

Thank you very much free4all for standing up for me. I really don't understand where EZoolander came up with these assumptions. I've never been "hellfire and brimstone" with my wife. It has really been just the opposite. I know how sensitive she is to the whole subject of "religion" (to me it's faith) so I try for the most part to avoid discussing it with her. I have clearly stated to her my beliefs and my stance and how much it means to me but that's it. I believe when she's ready to talk about it she'll come to me, or she'll find another Christian she feels comfortable with to talk to.

The path I am choosing isn't the only path, but I believe I'm on the path that Jesus has made for us and any other path only leads to death.

As far as changing the rules after marriage. I guess I would agree, but not in the way you have assumed. I gave up many bad, sinful habits and have spent more time focusing on my family than I ever have. After I started serving God again I no longer took my marriage for granted as I was doing. I realized that even though my wife has not yet given her life to Jesus that my marriage was holy and pure in God's eyes. Quite the opposite of your accusations of treating her as "impure, unclean, and damned." I have told her that I view our marriage as even more sacred and important than ever. I have never degraded her beliefs as a Catholic either. I have told her that I do not agree with them, but that is a far cry from degrading her. She does not agree with mine either, but I am working on being more sensitive to her beliefs. I have even told her that I would never oppose her going to Catholic services, she is a grown woman and at this point all I can do is pray for her and try to be a good example of a Christian man and husband for her.

I get the feeling from your post that you think I should place my wife above God. That can't happen. She is first after God. When I read your post this scripture came very strongly to my mind. It's Matthew 10:34-39. These are the words of Jesus himself.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law - a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

Jesus warned us that our relationships with non-believers would often become adversarial. We are commanded to put him first. The rules did change in my marriage, but they are not my rules, they are God's and I'll follow them because he's the master and he's the one who knows what truly is best for me.

EZoolander, I pray that the Lord blesses you and your family.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

hiya-

EZ, not sure where your post is coming from. It does seem that the OP's wife is threatened somehow by his attendance at the pentecostal church, but that does not mean he has actually done anything to cause this other than attend a church that she is not comfortable with.

Darkwing - I attended a Pentecostal church briefly when I was looking for the place I felt I belonged. My husband was very uncomfortable with it and refused to come. He wasn't thrilled with me taking the kids with me either, but thankfully he didn't push that point. I eventually found a Methodist church I really liked that he was willing to go to. I didn't pick the UMC because of my DH, but it does make things easier knowing he might come - or at the very least my going won't start an argument.

Can I ask, where do you feel called to be? Are you going to the pentecostal church because they offer something on Wednesdays that the Methodist church doesn't? Could you get involved with the Men's group or a Bible Study through the Methodist church?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions. I was doing a Bible Study at the Pentecostal church on Wednesdays. I assumed that DH didn't like me going because of the pentecostal thing, but I recently noticed him rolling his eyes at me when I talked about doing a Bible Study at the Methodist church...which told me it's not the church but the fact that I am wanting to do more study about God that bothers him...pentecostal was just a convenient excuse.

Is your wife willing to go to counseling? I think it's a good suggestion.

Praying for you both...

 

[cory533]

EZ,
I went back and reread the OP I can see where you are coming from in some of what you say. However I think you did project a lot into the situation. It also seems clear that you are not currently living in a UY relationship unless it is from the other side.You did state that there are many denominations not religions so I will assume the licence you give is not the all paths lead to your own nirvanna nonsence but rather that there are many flavors of Christains all serving God differently as different parts of the body of Christ. As such we do need to be sensitive to our spouces not to go too far in our zealousness. In that you are right but if you look a little closer to the additional posts I think you will find that Darkwing has tried to be sensitive in that way.
If we seem a little over protective please understand we all are frequently assaulted from both sides from people who do not understand what it is to be one flesh with an unbeleiver or even someone who's on a very different plane in their walk with Christ.

 

[pete56]

I haven't read all of the replies - since CF is screwing up and the page formatting is becoming weird...lol I know this is five pages down - so maybe this all has been resolved. This is to the OP, however, just in case.

There's a fine line between expressing your faith - and becoming a jacka** in the process. I know everyone running around seems to think that they've got it right - but the fact that there's lack of true consensus (as evidenced by there being more denominations than you can shake a stick at) combined with everyone's seeming sense of "authority" on what God wants - proves to me that nobody really knows what they're talking about.

If you married this woman - then changed the rules after marrying her - and suddenly became all full of hellfire and brimstone - referring to her as "not being saved" - I can see where she might get pretty upset with you. Having my wife suddenly shift into a bible thumping zealot after marrying me - implying that suddenly she thought I was "impure" - that our relationship was born in sin - that I was wrong in how I chose to worship - etc etc - all of that would make me want to get as far away from her as possible.

...especially since I firmly believe that she'd be wrong.

I'd be very upset if she was referring to me as being "unsaved" - because I did not choose to worship how she chose to worship. I'd be very upset if she walked around trying to indoctrinate our children into worshiping *her way* (because it's not the RIGHT way - it's simply HER way) - and suggesting that because our child was complying to her wishes - that he was closer to salvation than me. I'd be very upset if my wife had no respect for my point of view - and believed that I was to be damned for mine.

It sounds like you're guilty of all of that...and if that's all true...I can see why your wife is upset. You changed the rules midway through on her. You went from telling her that she was beautiful, special and wonderful, to telling her that she was unclean, unworthy, and damned. Instead of turning to her when you were depressed, in her eyes, you turned into a zealot and turned *on* her...and now you're indoctrinating HER children (because they are HER children as well) with that same nonsense.

None of that is good...

Is it good you found faith? Absolutely. But - don't think that you've got it "right". You believe how you choose to believe. You believe in the way that suits you - and helps you. Keep in mind, however, that yours isn't the only path.

EZ

Yoou are new to UY yourself and yet seem intent on giving our brother DW some very definite advice.

Perhaps you could tell us what experience you have of the UY life and on what you base this 'sound' advice?

Perxonally I would like to take advice from someone that has walked this path before, rather than some one who bases his advice almost entirely upon some theoretical marital guidance.

I notice that you do not show a faith icon in your profile, and from what you are saying I am of the opinion that you are not a Christian. Is this correct?

If so I would like to draw your attention to the Forum Specific Rules that are quite clear about how NC contributions to this forum can be made.

Please do not make any more posts here, or I shall have to report you.

Thank you

Pete56

 

[rainbowpromises]

I don't feel a need to answer EZ's posts, but I do have some thoughts for you darkwing.

How do I give her over to God? I have asked God to take over this whole situation and just lead me in the direction to go. My nerves are so frayed right now I can barely concentrate on anything. Even prayer is hard. I feel as though the devil is slamming me right now with a bunch of guilt and worthlessness thoughts. I feel like a failure. This is one of those times where it feels as though the Lord is far away. I am trying very hard to stand on God's word that he will never leave me nor forsake me, but the devil is trying to make me feel like I've failed God by screwing up my marriage and that he is punishing me. I don't believe this but the struggle is real and very difficult. I really need someone to talk to but I don't have anyone close to me that is a Christian. I know I must reach out but that will probably cause more friction in the marriage.

I have a wonderful husband who allows me to go in whatever direction I wish. He encourages my participation at church and encourages the children (now adults) in the same direction as me. Even with all that there are times that I struggle in my marriage. I cannot tell you how, but I can tell you that it is up and down.

As far as changing the rules after marriage. I guess I would agree, but not in the way you have assumed. I gave up many bad, sinful habits and have spent more time focusing on my family than I ever have. After I started serving God again I no longer took my marriage for granted as I was doing.

This too I can relate to. My marriage was at an end and I was the one killing it. Now I have changed. Oh there are still some kinks in our relationship but that comes from 20 years of making a mess of it. Our 30th anniversary is on Monday and I know my husband is worth being with.

Stay strong because you are not alone when you are a child of God.

 

[DZoolander]

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
I haven't read all of the replies

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
nobody really knows what they're talking about.

Does this include you?

Yes - and that's why I never put myself into a position of figuring out who's saved, and who's not saved. That's God's decision - not mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
If you married this woman - then changed the rules after marrying her

Do you expect no changes whatsoever when two young people get married?

I don't expect any monumental shifts within the first few years, no. I expect a progression of thought, certainly. I don't expect the woman that I met at 27 will be the same woman at 50. That's to be expected.

I don't expect, however, the person I met at 27 to make some sort of radical shift in perception within the first couple of years, no. Compound that with the implications of what we're talking about...which include things like...

- you're not saved (i.e., you're damned for how you're choosing to live)
- when I met you, it was in sin (i.e., the foundation of our relationship was wrong...)
- I'm going to indoctrinate my kids in my way of thinking - because your way is the road to damnation...etc...etc..

all of that stuff *is* implied...etc...etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
and suddenly became all full of hellfire and brimstone

If you had read the entire thread, you would have found no account of him detailing anything like you just described. Is there something from your past you are projecting?

Probably. Personally, I find men who presume to speak for God and issue judgment about who is saved, and who isn't, to be "full of hellfire and brimstone" - and rather unbearable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
- referring to her as "not being saved" - I can see where she might get pretty upset with you.

EZ, are you a Christian? You have no Christian symbol next to your name, nor do you mention anything about Christ or God in your personal info. As far as the term of "not being saved", it is what it is. If you don't like it... sorry.

Honestly, I didn't like any of the choices. I don't subscribe to any specific denomination - and to me - the label of "Christian - without denomination" reeks of "born again" - which has a bunch of other stigmas I've attached to it (i.e., the constant bible thumping, the need to speak of God and presume to lecture others on how their choices in worship are "wrong", etc).

Christian, yes. Born again, no. Subscribe to any denomination - no. Have a personal relationship with God - free of the encumbrances of the opinion of others - yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
Having my wife suddenly shift into a bible thumping zealot

I think that's an unfair characterization of the OP, based on the information he has provided.

If there was something revealed later on - and if my original assessment is wrong - then I apologize.

However - I'm a big fan of John 3:16. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life".

The issue of salvation, as I see it then, is "Does the individual believe in, and accept, Christ?" If so - then they're saved. It's not up to you to determine what the standard is - and where the bar lays - for "believing".

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
after marrying me - implying that suddenly she thought I was "impure" - that our relationship was born in sin - that I was wrong in how I chose to worship - etc etc - all of that would make me want to get as far away from her as possible.

...especially since I firmly believe that she'd be wrong.

So, you are entitled to a firm opinion on religious matters, but the OP isn't?

Once again - I see a difference. The only firm belief that I have is that God alone will judge - God alone knows the heart of man - and that man is not to be presumptive in assuming he knows the mind of God. It is that belief - which I think is 100% accurate - which would lead me to believe "she's wrong".

The inherent contradiction in many Christians - which is - on the one hand saying "God alone will judge" - and that "God alone knows the hearts of men" - while at the same time essentially saying "But - in the meantime - he's shown me how he will judge - and therefore I can do it in his stead" - irks me.

Tell people the word - but leave their relationship with God between them and God. You have no business talking about who's saved and who isn't (except in the case of the rejection of the Lord/Holy Spirit).

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
I'd be very upset if she was referring to me as being "unsaved" - because I did not choose to worship how she chose to worship.

That's not what the OP said. You really need to read closer, and stop adding your own words to the OP's post.

Once I finish this, I'll go re-read everything I couldn't get to this first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
I'd be very upset if she walked around trying to indoctrinate our children into worshiping *her way* (because it's not the RIGHT way - it's simply HER way)

So you are an authority on how to worship the RIGHT way? What makes you a greater authority than the OP for what goes on in his family? Until very recently, the OP's wife worshipped on Sunday morning by staying in bed. The OP took his children to church. Yet you criticize him for this.

I firmly believe that an individual could go the rest of their lives without going to Church - and yet still conform to the requirements of salvation.

For example - apart from the occasional wedding and/or funeral - I have no intention of ever going back to any church. That has no bearing whatsoever upon what I believe. I simply find organized religion to be distasteful - and I find discussing faith with others to be equally distasteful (hence why this is the first time I've really discussed "point of view" in quite some time.)

Man, in my humble opinion, is far too wrapped up in protocol and appearances. I believe "Church" is in your heart - and is your relationship and/or acceptance of the Lord. So the fact that she chose not to go to hang out with "religious people" doesn't really get me into a tizzy, no. Nor does it show any greater or lesser strength/bond with God than her husband, who chooses to run off to church every Sunday.

 

[DZoolander]

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
- and suggesting that because our child was complying to her wishes - that he was closer to salvation than me.

If you had shown no interest in God for at least 12 years, and your wife was actively seeking God, she might be right.

Like I said...I do not believe that running off to Church...or grabbing a bible...makes any individual any more, or any less, saved... Nor does it express any more of an "interest".

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
I'd be very upset if my wife had no respect for my point of view

That's exactly how the OP feels, that his wife has no respect for his point of view. You just proved his point.

The difference is - my point of view basically says "Do you love God - and do you accept Christ? If so - my work here is done." Everything else about how he/she conducts his/her relationship with the Lord is between them...and God alone will be the judge of that. I would never tell someone that went running off to Church 5 days a week that they are wrong. Grant me the same courtesy for not believing that church attendance (or the frequency of it) is necessary to have a loving relationship with God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
- and believed that I was to be damned for mine.

Some people will be damned for their views, according to the Bible.

Yeah, and it pretty much boils down to "rejection of Christ and/or the Holy Spirit". Not "Well, you didn't worship me ENOUGH."

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
It sounds like you're guilty of all of that

You added quite a bit to his post that wasn't there, and then you convicted him of it. Why are you so eager to judge and condemn?

Maybe because people that talk about salvation - and equate it to things like "When did you last go to church?" irk me. To me - there is a definite contradiction between the will of God - and the judgment of Man. I prefer to leave it to Jesus.

Pray in secret
When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

Personally - I think the world is full of religious people who reward each other for how obvious they make their faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
You changed the rules midway through on her.

Again, do you expect people to never change? Do you think his wife changed any since they married? She married him "for better or for worse." I can think of a lot of things worse than a man seeking God and trying to raise his children and lead his wife into a closer relationship with God. If you had read all his posts, you would have read that his wife didn't attend church for 12 years since they married. It is admirable that he would take his children to church and ask his wife to come.

Yes, it is admirable. However, her reluctance to go does not equate to "You are not saved."

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
You went from telling her that she was beautiful, special and wonderful, to telling her that she was unclean, unworthy, and damned.

Can you show me where he said all that? I must have missed it. He's asking her to go to church with him. How do you get "unclean, unworthy, and damned" out of that? You stretched the OP's words so far they broke. If you want any credibility at all, a good start would be to stop putting words in the OP's mouth.

Unsaved = Damned
Damned = Unclean
Unclean = Unworthy

Sorry - but that's how I equate those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
Instead of turning to her when you were depressed

Read the posts, EZ. She isn't interested in helping him with his depression.

I'll read them after this is done

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
you turned into a zealot

What is your definition of a zealot? One who desires to seek God? One who desires his family to know God and learn about Him? If that is your definition, please include me.

Zealot (to me) = One who thinks they've figured out the mind of God - and speaks with authority on it - believing they've got the weight of the Lord's power behind their words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
and turned *on* her

He's trying to help her. Do you realize that? Do you consider yourself a Christian?

We must have differing views on "help".

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
...and now you're indoctrinating HER children

Wrong. THEIR children. That means he also has input in how they are raised.

Of course. Are they *discussing* how to raise them, and coming to a *compromise*?

You've used "indoctrinating" more than once. Do you see teaching children about God as indoctrinating? Are you a Christian?

That's a weird one to answer. Do I think teaching someone about God is indoctrinating them? Absolutely not. Do I think Church is the place to go to learn about God - Absolutely not. I think Church has very little to do with God. Sure - His name is used a lot there - but I think people would be a lot better off being taught to read - and then being given a Bible.

...and leave it at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
with that same nonsense.

What "nonsense"? Teaching about God? I'll ask again: are you a Christian?

And I'll say once again - I think Church has very little to do with God. I think Church is a place of indoctrination - and what's taught has very very little in common with the Spirit of the Lord.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
None of that is good...

And neither is your advice.

I beg to differ

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
don't think that you've got it "right".

Are you an authority on the OP's beliefs? What makes you an authority? You didn't even read the thread, according to you.

I'll see what I missed

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZoolander
Keep in mind, however, that yours isn't the only path.

You are correct. There are many paths that are wrong. But seeking God, which is what the OP is doing, is a far better path than ignoring God, which is what his wife did for at least 12 years.

Once again - maybe his wife just didn't make (using Jesus's words) a hypocrite and a pharisee of herself like the rest of the world that you seem to think "is saved" does.

What experience do you have living with an unsaved wife? Or are you unsaved yourself?

I, unlike a great % of the people out there, don't believe that I have the slightest clue who is saved and who isn't. My business ends pretty much at John 3:16 - and I'm in no position to tell who believes - and who doesn't. I am in no position to know the heart of man. Therefore - I won't presume to tell you who's saved, and who isn't.

Whether or not I'm saved - by that litmus test - I believe I am. However - I'm certainly not going to ask any other schmo out there running around for his opinion on the matter. That's between God, and me...and it's up to me to do the best I can to truly love Him in a way that makes sense and resonates with me.

My way - however - is not the "right" way - it's simply my way. The difference between you, me, and everyone (apparently) else is that I believe that your way of loving God is just as good as mine. It's no better, nor worse. It's whether or not the love is there. How you choose to display it - that's your choice.

Neither one is going to earn us, nor deny us, salvation.

 

[DZoolander]

I notice that you do not show a faith icon in your profile, and from what you are saying I am of the opinion that you are not a Christian. Is this correct?

If so I would like to draw your attention to the Forum Specific Rules that are quite clear about how NC contributions to this forum can be made.

Please do not make any more posts here, or I shall have to report you.

Thank you

Pete56

Nope, you wouldn't be correct - I simply didn't like any of the choices at first glance