Feeling Hurt

[AmericanHoney]

so long story short, my husband and I have been together 6 years and going on 5 married. We have an amazing one year old now. We've also been dealing with some addictions that my husband has been dealing with for quite some time now (before we ever met). I didn't know of them until we were four months married. I had my suspicions and did what I had to to find out the truth. I was raised in church and my personal belief is that divorce is the last option if an option at all. I want to work this out with him because I do believe God wants us together. I'm not sure that I'll go into detail about what his addiction is right now but just that it's got a strong hold on him. I've been more trusting of him this past year in hopes that having our baby would help him overcome this but something has come to light and has proved me wrong. There were a few things that he did that I found out about but that was the extent of what I knew. I didn't snoop through his phone so in my mind all was well... or at least better. I feel like I'm not disguising his addiction very well... A couple years ago I got fed up of trying to do this on our own and got a book and he never read it. (His job is very demanding so I wasn't surprised) But this last incident caused him to read it and now we're going to read it together. Basically I'm here because I've tried reaching out to other forums... parent forums, marriage forums... I'm glad to see a Christian marriage forum so I'm hoping for some hope. Lol. I'm pretty much just feeling hurt right now. It was about a day and half before we talked after I had found something this last time and more and more lately when these findings happen I start thinking of what my plan would be if I decided to leave. Which I honestly don't want to do. But if I had to I want to know an immediate plan for me and my daughter. These things have happened SO much over the last 5 years and we usually bounce back quick but then the cycle continues. This time it feels deeper. I'm hurting. I want to cry. I'm tearing up. It's not even just what we're dealing with now but with things that have been building up over the last year or two. Lately I feel like he doesn't listen to my stories or jokes (and I'm sure he'd say I don't listen to him at all even though I do. I do miss some details but I also feel like being a stay at home mom has something to do with that), he can be very blunt and honest, that's his personality, but sometimes it just hurts my feelings the way he says things sometimes. It's just small things here and there. We are new parents and it's been a few months now that our baby is on a good sleep schedule so we have had more 'bonding' time but it's still been a bit of a struggle for us to go out on dates. His job is also so tiring that he doesn't want to do anything on the weekends and it's really the only quality time we get with him. And I'd rather spend it out swimming at the beach (another favorite thing of mine that his job doesn't allow anymore), or a lake, running around town or going out of town to explore things we never have. I mean, granted, our baby is on a strict schedule now and we haven't done any trips with her yet and we're kind of in an in between period with finances where we've got some play money but also being careful and paying off debts. So that's another thing. Honestly I just feel like there's a lot of things going on right now with us (me about to start my period isn't helping my emotions either I'm sure) and it's just weighing on me. The whole thing about the weekends came up the day after I found something this last time and I hadn't talked to him about it yet at that point so I think that two headed bullet kind of hit me right in the gut. It honestly made me a little vengeful and I ended up spending a few hours with one of my girlfriends the next day so I wouldn't be couped up inside watching him play video games all day long. We did decide that I get my running around and fun out during the week so I'm not bored on the weekends. So hopefully that'll help that issue a bit. I don't know... this is super long already, I just have a lot of emotions running right now and I'm hurting but I also want to forgive him and move on. I really do want us to work this out and get back to how we were before we got married. I'm definitely more determined this time and plan to stay on him about working on his issue. I'm sick of the cycle we've been in the last 5 years and I'm ready for it to end and for us to have freedom. Again, so sorry for the length, but I had a lot to unload. Just hoping for some prayers and encouragement. Thanks and God bless!

 

[johndoo]

you guys may benefit from personal and marriage counseling.
You each have to be responsible for problems ,issues that are involved
Even if you don't personally have serious issues, counseling for you can help you define bounderies and responses to his actions.

 

[Dave-W]

I agree with johndoo, get yourselves to a good bible based marriage counselor IMMEDIATELY. And individual counseling (and possibly rehab) for him to get rid of the addiction. (depending on what it is)

 

[AmericanHoney]

I agree with both of you. It's hard for us to do that right now though. We're far from people that we'd trust (we live out of state) and we've tried one church in the area but things didn't work out. Pretty much all the churches around us aren't in alignment with our beliefs. I'll keep searching though. He also went through therapy as a child and he didn't like it. He's had some issues in church as well, making it hard for him to trust church members. So the whole counseling idea is a struggle for him. That's another thing but if we truly need it I'll keep telling him.

 

[tall73]

I feel like I'm not disguising his addiction very well.

Is it your job to do so?

 

[tampasteve]

I agree with both of you. It's hard for us to do that right now though. We're far from people that we'd trust (we live out of state) and we've tried one church in the area but things didn't work out. Pretty much all the churches around us aren't in alignment with our beliefs. I'll keep searching though. He also went through therapy as a child and he didn't like it. He's had some issues in church as well, making it hard for him to trust church members. So the whole counseling idea is a struggle for him. That's another thing but if we truly need it I'll keep telling him.

Speaking from experience, I feel it is actually probably better to see a Marriage and Family counselor that you both are new to. Their impartial point of view can be freeing for the person with the addiction/issue. Pastors are great, and can be of much help, but if they do not have some sort of training in the issue at hand they can be of only real help to surface issues.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Speaking from experience, I feel it is actually probably better to see a Marriage and Family counselor that you both are new to. Their impartial point of view can be freeing for the person with the addiction/issue. Pastors are great, and can be of much help, but if they do not have some sort of training in the issue at hand they can be of only real help to surface issues.

A lot depends on the actual presuppositions and training of the counsellor; vastly different advice can be given, depending on what these are.

 

[tampasteve]

A lot depends on the actual presuppositions and training of the counsellor; vastly different advice can be given, depending on what these are.

Great point, thank you for adding it!

 

[mkgal1]

Speaking from experience, I feel it is actually probably better to see a Marriage and Family counselor that you both are new to. Their impartial point of view can be freeing for the person with the addiction/issue. Pastors are great, and can be of much help, but if they do not have some sort of training in the issue at hand they can be of only real help to surface issues.

I'd even say that individual counseling for his addiction first would be critical---and like you posted here--most pastors have little to any credentials to counsel in that area (and can make things worse instead of better by trying).

Take a look around this site: Restoring the Soul maybe it can help you by just reading some of what's on their site. From what I know.....addictions are addictions (it doesn't really matter what the escape is.....even sexual addiction changes the brain chemistry like drugs do). IMO (untrained) .....what's important is to discover what he's escaping FROM.....to work through that with a trained counselor....and learn healthy ways of dealing with things instead of "hiding".

 

[AmericanHoney]

Is it your job to do so?

I wouldn't say that it is. Just didn't want to go into full detail on it at that moment. It's a flirting/porn addiction. He never does anything in person, it's all online.

 

[tall73]

I wouldn't say that it is. Just didn't want to go into full detail on it at that moment. It's a flirting/porn addiction. He never does anything in person, it's all online.

Well the reason I asked is because he is only able to keep doing it because you are keeping his secret for him.

You need to let him know that getting help is no longer optional and you won't keep his secret any longer. Addictions such as porn and flirting thrive on secrecy because most want to maintain their good name with everyone on the outside, but being forced to confront the reality of the situation can give willingness to get help.

If you give him the option of continuing to address it himself the hurt will just go on, for both of you. And if he is a Christian this is slowly destroying his spiritual life to hide things from you, and to lust after women which he knows is wrong, etc. You need to make it clear that it needs to be addressed this time.

Now keep in mind, counseling is best and you don't have to tell anyone else if he is willing to get help. But if he is not then you might need to start setting new boundaries and having him face the actual consequences of his actions.

Basically if it has been going on this long it is not going to resolve unless he realizes you won't put up with it. And especially if it involves flirting too there is no guarantee it will stay online. That often tends to progress. Looking at pictures is one thing, and is hurtful because it is someone other than you. But forming relationships with other people takes it a step further, is hurting other people as well, and can tend to undermine your own relationship. If he is constantly flirting then he is probably experiencing the high of infatuation, or thrill of pursuit. That is not meant to be an ongoing thing, but a cementing experience at the beginning of the marriage relationship. If he is forming those bonds with others, as often happens with online flirting, then that can cause him to mentally re-write the history of your relationship with him and look at it negatively, and become obsessed with these online relationships.

If he is a Christian then you may want to insist that the Scriptures are plain that to look at a woman lustfully is to commit adultery in your heart, and that you cannot allow that to continue.

 

[tall73]

On a separate note, overwork can make it easier to give in to addictions. And from your description of his playing video games all day it sounds like he may be doing a number of things to escape reality, and escape building your relationship.

 

[mkgal1]

And from your description of his playing video games all day it sounds like he may be doing a number of things to escape reality, and escape building your relationship.

Good point.

 

[AmericanHoney]

I'd even say that individual counseling for his addiction first would be critical---and like you posted here--most pastors have little to any credentials to counsel in that area (and can make things worse instead of better by trying).

Take a look around this site: Restoring the Soul maybe it can help you by just reading some of what's on their site. From what I know.....addictions are addictions (it doesn't really matter what the escape is.....even sexual addiction changes the brain chemistry like drugs do). IMO (untrained) .....what's important is to discover what he's escaping FROM.....to work through that with a trained counselor....and learn healthy ways of dealing with things instead of "hiding".

I definitely agree about the individual counseling. That's why I've come here because I just need to let it out and get feedback. But I know a counselor would be even better. I will check out that website. Well that is what his problem is is flirting/porn and sex I suppose. I'm not quite sure what you would really label it as. He says it's like checking Facebook or a weather app, it's like second nature to just get on your phone and do. He says he's been on whisper and posts things like "hope everyone has a good day" and then people start messaging him and it turns to flirting. But I also know that in the past he's made plenty of other types of posts and it was more than just well wishing. It was asking for flirtation and sensual texting. In the book we're reading it explains how men are wired differently. That's why it's been so hard for me to actually find people that can understand this problem that he has because I know it's not because I'm not enough or that he doesn't love me but it's practically a disease and he needs serious help. When I have women who have never gone through this or don't believe in God respond to me it's all assumptions about him and that I should leave him because he's a dirt bag but he just needs help. He's never defended his actions or got angry at me but has always explained why he does these things. He really thinks he can cut it on his own with my help but I know he just doesn't want to open up to a stranger. He can barely even tell me some of the things going on inside him. And it's all because he's embarrassed.

 

[AmericanHoney]

Well the reason I asked is because he is only able to keep doing it because you are keeping his secret for him.

You need to let him know that getting help is no longer optional and you won't keep his secret any longer. Addictions such as porn and flirting thrive on secrecy because most want to maintain their good name with everyone on the outside, but being forced to confront the reality of the situation can give willingness to get help.

If you give him the option of continuing to address it himself the hurt will just go on, for both of you. And if he is a Christian this is slowly destroying his spiritual life to hide things from you, and to lust after women which he knows is wrong, etc. You need to make it clear that it needs to be addressed this time.

Now keep in mind, counseling is best and you don't have to tell anyone else if he is willing to get help. But if he is not then you might need to start setting new boundaries and having him face the actual consequences of his actions.

Basically if it has been going on this long it is not going to resolve unless he realizes you won't put up with it. And especially if it involves flirting too there is no guarantee it will stay online. That often tends to progress. Looking at pictures is one thing, and is hurtful because it is someone other than you. But forming relationships with other people takes it a step further, is hurting other people as well, and can tend to undermine your own relationship. If he is constantly flirting then he is probably experiencing the high of infatuation, or thrill of pursuit. That is not meant to be an ongoing thing, but a cementing experience at the beginning of the marriage relationship. If he is forming those bonds with others, as often happens with online flirting, then that can cause him to mentally re-write the history of your relationship with him and look at it negatively, and become obsessed with these online relationships.

If he is a Christian then you may want to insist that the Scriptures are plain that to look at a woman lustfully is to commit adultery in your heart, and that you cannot allow that to continue.

You said that perfectly. I whole heartedly agree. Because that's exactly what's going on. I'm keeping his secret for him. He is a Christian and he even told me that lately its why he feels guilty about going to church (unless he meant to say 'not' going to church. That part of the convo was in text) and why he doesn't want to be around other people. (We haven't found a home church where we are right now and we've found a good church recently but we don't know if it's going to work out. So that's been hard. But we can watch sermons at our church back home). That's another thing this book mentioned is that his addiction effected his relationship with God.

 

[AmericanHoney]

On a separate note, overwork can make it easier to give in to addictions. And from your description of his playing video games all day it sounds like he may be doing a number of things to escape reality, and escape building your relationship.

That could be part of it. He's always been a gamer and I've never had an issue with it unless it effected us. And I know he uses games on his phone to help distract him from doing the other things on his phone that he shouldn't while at work or when I'm out of the house (he actually usually gets off them when I leave and cleans and stays busy). I'm not sure if it's a cope out so he won't have to talk but maybe it is. I know if he wasn't on it it would be easier for me to tell him "hey, let's talk". Gaming is his hobby though. Like mine is watching YouTube vlogs or movies. Sometimes I wish he would wait until the evenings to get on because most times the first thing in the morning on the weekend he already has it turned on ready to go. He waits until after breakfast but the fact remains. It really hasn't effected us that much until lately.

 

[mkgal1]

In the book we're reading it explains how men are wired differently.

What book is that? I don't believe that's factual.

For facts about our brains and how porn affects our brain chemistry....you may want to check out this site: Home - Fight the New Drug

 

[tall73]

I definitely agree about the individual counseling. That's why I've come here because I just need to let it out and get feedback. But I know a counselor would be even better. I will check out that website. Well that is what his problem is is flirting/porn and sex I suppose. I'm not quite sure what you would really label it as. He says it's like checking Facebook or a weather app, it's like second nature to just get on your phone and do. He says he's been on whisper and posts things like "hope everyone has a good day" and then people start messaging him and it turns to flirting. But I also know that in the past he's made plenty of other types of posts and it was more than just well wishing. It was asking for flirtation and sensual texting. In the book we're reading it explains how men are wired differently. That's why it's been so hard for me to actually find people that can understand this problem that he has because I know it's not because I'm not enough or that he doesn't love me but it's practically a disease and he needs serious help.

Men are more visual. They are turned on by attractive women, which can vary across a whole spectrum of body types, appearance, etc. And yes, it is not a commentary on your attractiveness that he likes looking at images of women. However, the fact that he is excusing it as second nature is ridiculous. Men are visually attracted to women. That doesn't cause you to navigate to porn and look at it. That is a choice. When he makes the choice to look at the porn, of course he will be attracted.

It is a problem, but not a disease. The problem is he consistently chooses to look or flirt.

Also flirting is a choice. You cross the line when you decide to cross the line. And that is not even about visual cues. So there is no excuse there. He wants infatuation and the emotional high that comes from these discussions. He hasn't learned to say no and to build up the relationship with you that he needs to.

If he didn't stop when he told you, and he didn't stop when your child was born, he is not stopping until he gets help or has his life crash down on him.

You need to let him know this can't stay secret. His child will eventually find out about it. His church will. His friends and extended family will. It is time to stop making excuses.

He can change this, by removing the porn and flirting. Your relationship can be rebuilt by spending time with you. But those are all choices he must make.

When I have women who have never gone through this or don't believe in God respond to me it's all assumptions about him and that I should leave him because he's a dirt bag but he just needs help. He's never defended his actions or got angry at me but has always explained why he does these things. He really thinks he can cut it on his own with my help but I know he just doesn't want to open up to a stranger. He can barely even tell me some of the things going on inside him. And it's all because he's embarrassed.

If he is ashamed now that will only increase when folks find out about it and he has destroyed his spiritual and marital life.

 

[tall73]

You said that perfectly. I whole heartedly agree. Because that's exactly what's going on. I'm keeping his secret for him. He is a Christian and he even told me that lately its why he feels guilty about going to church (unless he meant to say 'not' going to church. That part of the convo was in text) and why he doesn't want to be around other people. (We haven't found a home church where we are right now and we've found a good church recently but we don't know if it's going to work out. So that's been hard. But we can watch sermons at our church back home). That's another thing this book mentioned is that his addiction effected his relationship with God.

How could betraying and lying to his wife not impact his relation to God? He needs to put an end to these behaviors to have a relationship with God and with you.

 

[tall73]

That could be part of it. He's always been a gamer and I've never had an issue with it unless it effected us. And I know he uses games on his phone to help distract him from doing the other things on his phone that he shouldn't while at work or when I'm out of the house (he actually usually gets off them when I leave and cleans and stays busy). I'm not sure if it's a cope out so he won't have to talk but maybe it is. I know if he wasn't on it it would be easier for me to tell him "hey, let's talk". Gaming is his hobby though.

Gaming is not a problem in moderation, but it can be a symptom of the overall problem if he is gaming all the time on a day when he is off work (which you said is a lot of hours) and could be spending time with you.

He should really agree to give up his phone entirely for a time. If he needs it for work then you could make an agreement that you have the right to examine the phone at any time. He needs to be accountable for a time while trust is rebuilt.

Like mine is watching YouTube vlogs or movies. Sometimes I wish he would wait until the evenings to get on because most times the first thing in the morning on the weekend he already has it turned on ready to go. He waits until after breakfast but the fact remains. It really hasn't effected us that much until lately.

If it is starting to more that may be a sign he is withdrawing more. That combined with his new reluctance to go to church is not a good thing.

Also some folks will progress flirting to full-on emotional affairs which can lead to actual affairs.