Federal view of condemnation,Do you agree?

[Frogster]

I never really thought on it much,as amphibians are prone to thinking about pond life.



I don’t agree with the federal view of condemnation.

The proponents will quote this..

Romans 5;18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

And this..

Romans 5;19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Feds view Adam,who,as the head of the human race,stood for us,and we are accounted sinful,on the basis of his disobedience.Like he was the Ambassador,and we are bound because of his actions,and we were judged too.Adam’s sin was imputed to us.In the same way as Christ’s righteousness was imputed to us.They agree we inherited a sinful nature,but that is not what condemns us.


The tricky thing is ,yes,I agree with half of the verse (verses) posted.Righteousness is imputed by the act of Jesus.But was the act of Adam imputed to me? In the same way righteousness was,from the second Adam?

In other words,they say,I was born under condemnation,because of Adam,not necessarily,because of my own sin nature.Basically,,born guilty by judgment,a verdict.

Would that be fair?

I think what is needed is the explanation of ...”made sinners”.

Yes,by Adams act,I was made a sinner,which gave me a sin nature,which led to condemnation.And that explains the first half of the two posted verses.The”how”.

Thank you.


Ps,there is also the Augustinian (and others I suppose)view,that indicates we "were in Adam"..this passage,as an example.

Hebrews 7:9-10 One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, 10 for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him.


Thank you.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Well , that is pretty much the Catholic definition of "Original Sin" - only a few words different here or there .

 

[Frogster]

Well , that is pretty much the Catholic definition of "Original Sin" - only a few words different here or there .

Yes,I thought of that too.I guess the more I look at as a forensic matter,it does not jive.It reminds me of school days,when the teacher would punish the whole class,because of one student.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Yes,I thought of that too.I guess the more I look at as a forensic matter,it does not jive.It reminds me of school days,when the teacher would punish the whole class,because of one student.

LOL!! Not that it should be allowed in school but it would have been nice if it ended there . My supervisors and managers at work go by the same system . I know parents who still do this with their chidren . It is a lazy way of fulfilling leadership duties . I thank the Lord for being the God of and for the individual - as He says ... "I am the god of Abraham , Isaac , and Jacob" .

 

[Frogster]

LOL!! Not that it should be allowed in school but it would have been nice if it ended there . My supervisors and managers at work go by the same system . I know parents who still do this with their chidren . It is a lazy way of fulfilling leadership duties . I thank the Lord for being the God of and for the individual - as He says ... "I am the god of Abraham , Isaac , and Jacob" .

You must be a republican or a liberterian!

Thanks..the way you said that verse jumped out at me..individually.

I recently read,that God never called anyone son,in the OT individually,only corporately.I think it was Israel..my son.That is what i read anyway.

 

[Albion]

Well , that is pretty much the Catholic definition of "Original Sin"

Yes,I thought of that too.I guess the more I look at as a forensic matter,it does not jive.It reminds me of school days,when the teacher would punish the whole class,because of one student.

Bear in mind that this was a controversy in the church at a very early time...and Pelagius was rejected as a heretic for claiming that we are judged soley upon what we do or don't do ourselves. Not only the Catholic church of later times but most Protestant churches accept the idea that we begin life in sin. The Bible itself says that all men are born in sin. This is a consequence of Adam and Eve's sin which was passed on to us, just as the rest of what they lost when driven out of the Garden of Eden falls on us, too, such as bearing children in pain, having to work for a living, having to face a physical death, etc.

 

[Frogster]

Bear in mind that this was a controversy in the church at a very early time...and Pelagius was rejected as a heretic for claiming that we are judged soley upon what we do or don't do ourselves. Not only the Catholic church of later times but most Protestant churches accept the idea that we begin life in sin. The Bible itself says that all men are born in sin. This is a consequence of Adam and Eve's sin which was passed on to us, just as the rest of what they lost when driven out of the Garden of Eden falls on us, too, such as bearing children in pain, having to work for a living, having to face a physical death, etc.

Yes..I agree,we are born in sin.But I think it is beacuse of the fall,and the inherited nature,rather than the bearing of Adams sin,as my punishment.

 

[MamaZ]

Yes..I agree,we are born in sin.But I think it is beacuse of the fall,and the inherited nature,rather than the bearing of Adams sin,as my punishment.

Well we do not bear Adams particular sin but because Adam sinned and Eve sinned also.. We are now all begat from a sinner. For sinners beget sinners.

 

[Frogster]

Well we do not bear Adams particular sin but because Adam sinned and Eve sinned also.. We are now all begat from a sinner. For sinners beget sinners.

Hi
In the book I am reading,a Romans commentary by J.M. boice.They view it as a judicial judgment.

Almost like if lets say a president did bad,and was impeached,everyone in his party,even though they did not do a crime,would be impeached also.

The writer stated,by example, that even if Adam just sinned once,and no one else ever did..no one..Jesus still would have had to die,because the sin of Adam,was judicially put on all.

I think it was more we are born sinners,and my sins personally,went to the cross.