Fear of Infinity

[<all]

Hi,

I hope it's ok to have 2 threads on the go at once. This one links in with a test I was asked to take on the 1st thread. The test was called "The Good Test" and it reminded me of a fear that my mother once expressed to me, which I have now come to share.

The fear is of eternity.

I'm worried that if I follow Christianity, there's no real choice anymore in death. As far as I understand it, it's either eternity in heaven or eternity in hell. There's no "stop existing" option.

The idea of hell is indeed a terrifying one and I just don't get it. Forever is a long time to be punished for 70 years worth of failure. It's also a long time to be punished for 5 years of failure, or 3 months of failure.

The alternative, in this dilemma, is eternity in heaven. As I said - that's a long time. I ask this with absolute sincerity, and I don't mean to offend, but would a person be able to cope with that? Would they get bored?

I love life but I don't see the appeal in eternal life. Is that weird?

Many thanks,

<all

 

[ebia]

Hi,

I hope it's ok to have 2 threads on the go at once. This one links in with a test I was asked to take on the 1st thread. The test was called "The Good Test" and it reminded me of a fear that my mother once expressed to me, which I have now come to share.

The fear is of eternity.

I'm worried that if I follow Christianity, there's no real choice anymore in death. As far as I understand it, it's either eternity in heaven or eternity in hell. There's no "stop existing" option.

The idea of hell is indeed a terrifying one and I just don't get it. Forever is a long time to be punished for 70 years worth of failure. It's also a long time to be punished for 5 years of failure, or 3 months of failure.

The alternative, in this dilemma, is eternity in heaven. As I said - that's a long time. I ask this with absolute sincerity, and I don't mean to offend, but would a person be able to cope with that? Would they get bored?

I love life but I don't see the appeal in eternal life. Is that weird?

Many thanks,

<all

The Christian hope is not for an eternity in a disembodied heaven sitting around on clouds all day, but for renewed, restored, redeemed life in a renewed, restored, redeemed creation where we have a role to play being the image of God in and for that creation.

Quite what that will be like is beyond our imagining, but it certainly won't be boring.

 

[drich0150]

A large element of boredom is an inability to connect with your circumstances or surroundings. Being in Heaven with God, is/was the purpose of our creation. It was what we all were made to do. So Boredom really won't be an issue.

I don't think you should view the 70 or so years you have, as a test. The time we have here is given us to make an decision that has our eternal fate as a consequence. And that decision is: Do you want to spend eternity with God? or do you want to spend eternity in Heaven? (No one knowingly chooses Hell)

If you find yourself looking to spend eternity with God then even if the descriptions of Heaven and Hell were confused Milena ago, then no matter what Heaven (the place you find yourself in God's presents) May look like you will find true contentment and happiness..

But if your looking to just be admitted into the after life's version of a gated community with gold streets, where angels play the harp and saints check you name from a list.. Then in reality, no matter what your Idea of heaven may look like, if it's devoid of God it will truly be Hell. That's what the definition of Hell is.. The place or Void absent from the presents of God..

The Key in this life, and the next is a Love Based Relationship. If you learn to Love God with all of your Being: Heart, Mind, Spirit, Strength. Then no matter where "Heaven" is or what it looks like you will find love and contentment.

 

[Hentenza]

Hi <all,

This is a paper that one of my bible study students sent me. I hope it helps.

In Luke 23:43, Jesus declared, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise." The word Jesus used for "paradise" is paradeisos which means "a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, paradise)". Paradeisos is the Greek word taken from the Hebrew word pardes which means "a park: - forest, orchard" (Strong's). Jesus said, "Today you shall be with me "en paradeisos," not "en nephele" which is Greek for “in clouds.” The point is that Jesus picked and used the word for "a park." Not just any park but "the paradise of God" or park of God (Revelation 2:7) which for us will be a place of future happiness. Does this sound like a boring place? When you think of a park, do you think of boredom?

Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10). It's interesting to note that Jesus did not say "praise and serve." Even the briefest examination of the word praise in the Bible quickly shows it's a verbal thing and is for the most part singing. Worship, however, is from the heart. Worship manifests itself in praise. Serving God is worship, and Scripture is clear we will serve God in heaven. "His servants will serve Him" (Revelation 22:3).

We are unable to fully serve God in this life due to sin, but in heaven "every curse will no longer be" (Revelation 22:3). We will not be under the curse of sin any longer, so everything we do will be worship in heaven. We will never be motivated by anything other than our love for God. Everything we do will be out of our love for God, untainted by our sin nature.

So what will we do? My favorite thing is to learn. "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?" (Romans 11:34), "in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Colossians 2:3). God is the "the high and lofty One who inhabits eternity" (Isaiah 57:15). God is bigger than forever, and it will take eternity "to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height, and to know the love of Christ" (Ephesians 3:18-19). In other words, we will never stop learning.

God's Word says we won't have to be in His paradise alone. "I shall fully know even as I also am fully known" (1 Corinthians 13:12). This would seem to indicate that we will not only know our friends and family, we will "fully know" them. In other words, there is no need for secrets in heaven. There is nothing to be ashamed of. There is nothing to hide. We will have eternity to interact with "a great multitude, which no man could number, out of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues" (Revelation 7:9). No wonder heaven will be a place of infinite learning. Just getting to know everyone will take eternity!

Any further anticipation about what we shall do in God's eternal park, heaven, will be far surpassed when "the King shall say to those on His right hand, 'Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world'" (Matthew 25:34). Whatever we will be doing, we can be sure it will be wonderful beyond our imaginations!

 

[<all]

Hi,

Thank you all of you for your replies. They have been helpful. So, just to check, heaven won't be boring because God designed us to be with him so he knows best?

The definition of hell given by drich (a place without the presence of God) - please excuse my ignorance - why would Atheists or non-Christians be concerned about going there?
If Atheists do not believe in God, could you not say that God is absent in their lives? If so, how will hell be a punishment for them when they die?

Thanks,

<all

 

[Judgment]

Hi,

I hope it's ok to have 2 threads on the go at once. This one links in with a test I was asked to take on the 1st thread. The test was called "The Good Test" and it reminded me of a fear that my mother once expressed to me, which I have now come to share.

The fear is of eternity.

I'm worried that if I follow Christianity, there's no real choice anymore in death. As far as I understand it, it's either eternity in heaven or eternity in hell. There's no "stop existing" option.

The idea of hell is indeed a terrifying one and I just don't get it. Forever is a long time to be punished for 70 years worth of failure. It's also a long time to be punished for 5 years of failure, or 3 months of failure.

The alternative, in this dilemma, is eternity in heaven. As I said - that's a long time. I ask this with absolute sincerity, and I don't mean to offend, but would a person be able to cope with that? Would they get bored?

I love life but I don't see the appeal in eternal life. Is that weird?

Many thanks,

<all

There are offers that do not have foundation, they are unbecoming.

Consider Sodom. Is the actual city of Sodom still burning?

Consider the familiar spirit of Sodom in the offer ''an etrenal fire forever burning''.

When persons accept the unbecoming offer that lacks foundation and cause, it's because persons are deceived for lack of, knowledge, the Truth.

The name that is not known, is not written in the Book of Life. There is one name that is written, it opens the Book of Life and is found therein.

Consider the name Yahshua. Do persons see an eternal fire that has burned out like the city of Sodom?

In the begining, the Truth is known as it is offering persons in question now. The Truth is declaring that persons that perish are not known because; they have not accepted the Truth delaring, persons shall perish.

The Truth informs persons; if persons are consumed by this unbecoming fruit, persons shall perish like the city of Sodom that no longer burns but, is definily lost, gone, absent, no longer risen.

History is a confession that remains unchanged, past away. Sodom was risen but, it no longer burns.

Take care my friend, offers from persons do not agree with the Bible. The seeker of Truth shall not perish, having found the definite fact, rather than a false eternal condemnation continuosly burning persons.

Hear what the Holy Spirit offers and the revelation of the love and mercy of God in Christ shall be as the name Yahshua sealed upon the numbered Saints.

Pray ye therefor, that the Lord of the Harvest has sent unto you the offer you shall receive, for the harvest is ripe.

Fear not, go with God in Christ. In the name of Yahshua stand fast, do no harm.

P.S. Hell is a trash pit that is still burning, like the prophetic City of Babylon that is fallen, is fallen. The trash fire is still offering the stench of a perishing principle. Not only is the fallen trash burning but, when the fire is out and there is but the dust of the Earth, the fire continually burns in history.

Consider how sin is forgotten and persons shall witness the revelation of God in Christ, the body and blood upon the cross inside the heart of a repentant persons tear.

 

[drich0150]

So, just to check, heaven won't be boring because God designed us to be with him so he knows best?

In this life you have been designed to breath air and to eat food.. Do you find these activities "boring?" If so the why do them? Is it because "God" knows best? Or is it just a natural part of your existence, and one you give very little thought to anymore?

Being with God for eternity will come that naturally to us, because that's what we were created to do.. We will "plug in" to our new home, because we will want to be with God, and God will want us to be there.

why would Atheists or non-Christians be concerned about going there?

A place Being devoid of God means a place devoid of all of creation. When one Goes to Hell you don't go with the benefit or the securities that creation provides (like fire and brimestone..) In hell one doesn't even have the control over his/her own mind that they may enjoy now..

Hell is a scary place, because it is existence without God, and all that he provides.. That said, scaring people away from Hell should not be our business. We are to provide people a way to start and help maintain a relationship with God for all who seek it, and educate those who have questions. Along the way if you find fear, good! use it to help motivate yourself into a proper/healthy relationship with God.. (one far from fear) But Fear itself should not be a tool used to push people towards God.

If Atheists do not believe in God, could you not say that God is absent in their lives?

God maybe be absent from their Hearts, but in this life they are all still apart of creation, and as such still have an opportunity to choose to have a relationship with God, at anytime.

If so, how will hell be a punishment for them when they die?

Upon Death they will have no more time to make their decision. It will have been made, and if the remain true to their faith, then as I understand it they will be eternally separated from God and the rest of creation.

 

[seashale76]

The idea of hell is indeed a terrifying one and I just don't get it. Forever is a long time to be punished for 70 years worth of failure. It's also a long time to be punished for 5 years of failure, or 3 months of failure.

The alternative, in this dilemma, is eternity in heaven. As I said - that's a long time. I ask this with absolute sincerity, and I don't mean to offend, but would a person be able to cope with that? Would they get bored?

I love life but I don't see the appeal in eternal life. Is that weird?

Many thanks,

<all

I think most people misunderstand the concept of heaven and hell and what experiencing one or the other eternally actually means.

St. Athanasius once said, "God became man so that man may become like God." It is a process known as theosis (purification, illumination, sainthood/made holy). Theosis is when a person can participate in the life of God- it isn't becoming God.

God is Love and His presence is like fire. How one endures this fire has everything to do with how they were tempered in this life, just like the three righteous youths in the fiery furnace were able to joyfully walk around unharmed in the fire, so did others who didn't love God perish just being near the fire. The fire didn't change.

Here is a quote from an old Wikipedia article on the topic (that doesn’t seem to be around anymore) that I thought explained it pretty well: "For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

 

[<all]

Thanks again for the responses. I have understood everything everyone has said, but I'm working on it!

The thing that is puzzling me now is - if God designed us to be in a relationship with him (I think drich said this) then why won't he offer a second chance after death?

Like, if an atheist dies they are to spend *eternity* separated from God? There's nothing they can do to fix things up?

As a separate question - what is a relationship with God like? If God is omnipresent/scient/potent doesn't that make it a bit of a unbalanced relationship? I'm just thinking about my wife you see. We get on really well. I would say, out of all the relationships I've experienced, ours is the closest and the most rewarding. Surely a relationship with *God* must be unimaginably fantastic...?

Sorry for asking two questions in one again.

<all

 

[drich0150]

then why won't he offer a second chance after death?

This life is just a proving ground for something God already knows.. He knew before any of us were created which way we'd go, or who we'd choose. But because God is a righteous God, we are given a the brief breath of life to prove to ourselves in whom our love belongs to. Again all of this, our lives, his sacrifice, is not about getting into Heaven just to avoid Hell. It's about separating the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the chaff, or the People who truly love God with all of their beings, and those who do not..
Heaven is not the reward at the end of this life, being with God is. Heaven is just the place that all happens.

If we were all given second chances and could fully comprehend the ramifications in detail, of what hell really was, then where would the love be in our choice? Remember all of this is about love.. God's love for us, and our love for him. How hard would it be to change your mind to save yourself and love not be apart of the decision?

what is a relationship with God like? If God is omnipresent/scient/potent doesn't that make it a bit of a unbalanced relationship?

I would imagine it as infinitely more complete version of what an earthly Father and his young child share now, but immeasurably greater than anything anyone has ever experienced in this life. Even though their is a Imbalance between father and child intellectually there is still tremendous love. We will come to our Heavenly Father as children and as eternity progresses we will grow in our relationship..

 

[ebia]

Thanks again for the responses. I have understood everything everyone has said, but I'm working on it!

The thing that is puzzling me now is - if God designed us to be in a relationship with him (I think drich said this) then why won't he offer a second chance after death?

It's not a complete answer to this question, but I think part of the problem here is the modern western world's over individualistic thinking.

Salvation in historic Judeo/Christian thinking is not, first and formost, about individuals, but about all creation, humanity in and for that creation, Israel/Church in and for all humanity, and (only lastly) individuals in and for that.

The idea of thinking of the individual first would be completely alien to the thinking of Jesus and Paul, and still is to most of the world; africans, say, are much better at thinking at a community level first.

 

[Bible2]

<all posted in message #1 of this thread:

eternity in heaven. As I said - that's a long time. I ask this with
absolute sincerity, and I don't mean to offend, but would a person
be able to cope with that? Would they get bored?

Greetings.

Christians won't spend eternity in heaven with God. Instead, God
will come down from heaven and spend eternity on a new earth with
Christians (Revelation 21:1-4). And Christians will also be given the
morning star (Revelation 2:28), which symbolically is Jesus himself
(Revelation 22:16), but literally is the second planet from the sun.
So it's possible that Christians could be given the second planet from
the sun as a project to work on, to terraform it for God. And after
that project is completed, the universe is big enough and varied
enough for us to stay busy on fascinating projects for all of eternity.
But the most fascinating thing will not be what we will be doing, but
who we will be coming to know more and more as we serve him: the
infinite God Himself. We will have eternity to experience his love and
a daily relationship with him, in an ever deeper, more profound way.
And there is no boredom at all in knowing God and serving him, for
"in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are
pleasures for evermore" (Psalms 16:11).

 

[<all]

Thanks again for the replies.

Can I ask Sybarus to clarify what they said?
"I think this says a lot more about your situation (and sheds light on the evolution of religion) than fear of being bored for an eternity."

<all

 

[norswede]

Hi,

Thank you all of you for your replies. They have been helpful. So, just to check, heaven won't be boring because God designed us to be with him so he knows best?

The definition of hell given by drich (a place without the presence of God) - please excuse my ignorance - why would Atheists or non-Christians be concerned about going there?
If Atheists do not believe in God, could you not say that God is absent in their lives? If so, how will hell be a punishment for them when they die?

Thanks,

<all

Have you ever read the book 23 Minutes in Hell? It explains very well why Hell is such a terrible place. It gives scriptural references to support everything that is said. The main reason why Hell is such a horrible place on top of the physical torment, is that an eternity without God is an eternity without everything that God is and everything he has given us. For example the Bible says that God is light and God is love. Therefore an eternity without God is an eternity without light and without love. God also gave us air to breath, water to drink, food to eat. An eternity without God would be an eternity without these things as well. On top of that, a non believer will also be at the mercy of demons. But the worst part of all of this is that there will be no hope. Atheists will get what they've always wanted, an eternity without God and that means that he won't be anywhere near by to rescue them.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Hi,

I hope it's ok to have 2 threads on the go at once. This one links in with a test I was asked to take on the 1st thread. The test was called "The Good Test" and it reminded me of a fear that my mother once expressed to me, which I have now come to share.

The fear is of eternity.

I'm worried that if I follow Christianity, there's no real choice anymore in death. As far as I understand it, it's either eternity in heaven or eternity in hell. There's no "stop existing" option.

The idea of hell is indeed a terrifying one and I just don't get it. Forever is a long time to be punished for 70 years worth of failure. It's also a long time to be punished for 5 years of failure, or 3 months of failure.

The alternative, in this dilemma, is eternity in heaven. As I said - that's a long time. I ask this with absolute sincerity, and I don't mean to offend, but would a person be able to cope with that? Would they get bored?

I love life but I don't see the appeal in eternal life. Is that weird?

Many thanks,

<all

I totally understand what you are saying. When I was 7, I would lie awake at night thinking of this stuff. I didn't want to spend eternity in Hell, but I didn't want to spend eternity in heaven either! The concept of eternity makes my blood run cold.

I wished I could be anihilated, and was dissapointed that this wasn't an option.

Now however, I've sort of changed my mind. The idea that God might not exist has become more prominent in my thinking of late. It leaves me with that same sinking in the pit of my stomach feeling that I get when i think about eternity.

I hope that God exists, but I am less sure of it now than I was when I was younger.

I think I would rather go to Hell than to be annihilated. The idea of annihlation doesn't appeal to me like it once did.

 

[salida]

Eternity will be great and there won't be the bondage of time. God isn't on a time clock as He is infinite. We can't image heaven as this place will be so great - John 14:2, Rev 21:18, 21 describes heaven in part here.