FBI Internal Memo Warns against ‘Radical Traditionalist Catholic Ideology’. Implications for Orthodox?

[Nick1000]

Yes, this article identifies traditional Catholics as the targets.

But, readers can decide whether this puts Orthodox in the crosshairs too in light of the fact that the FBI continues to try to hunt down and eradicate anything traditional in America.

FBI Internal Memo Warns against ‘Radical Traditionalist Catholic Ideology’​

2.2k
Brittany Bernstein
Wed, February 8, 2023 at 2:14 PM PST·3 min read

The FBI’s Richmond field office released an internal memo last month warning against “radical traditionalist Catholic ideology,” and claiming it “almost certainly presents new mitigation opportunities,” according to a document shared by an FBI whistleblower on Wednesday.
Kyle Seraphin, who was a special agent at the bureau for six years before he was indefinitely suspended without pay in June 2022, published the document, “Interest of Racially or Ethnically Motivated Violent Extremists in Radical Traditionalist Catholic Ideology Almost Certainly Presents New Mitigation Opportunities,” on UncoverDC.com.
“In making this assessment, FBI Richmond relied on the key assumption that [racially or ethnically motivated extremists] will continue to find [radical-traditionalist Catholic or RTC] ideology attractive and will continue to attempt to connect with RTC adherents, both virtually via social media and in-person at places of worship,” the document from January 23 states.
It adds that “RTCs are typically categorized by the rejection of the Second Vatican Council (Vatican II) as a valid church council; disdain for most of the popes elected since Vatican II, particularly Pope Francis and Pope John Paul II; and frequent adherence to anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, anti-LGBTQ, and white supremacist ideology. Radical-traditionalist Catholics compose a small minority of overall Roman Catholic adherents and are separate and distinct from ‘traditionalist Catholics’ who prefer the Traditional Latin Mass and pre-Vatican II teachings and traditions, without the more extremist ideological beliefs and violent rhetoric.”

FBI Internal Memo Warns against ‘Radical Traditionalist Catholic Ideology’

The FBI’s Richmond field office released an internal memo last month warning against "radical traditionalist Catholic ideology," and claiming it "almost certainly presents new mitigation opportunities," according to a document shared by an FBI whistleblower on Wednesday.

news.yahoo.com

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

This has nothing to do with truly traditional Orthodoxy, but rather people like Matthew Heimbach (who has been excommunicated by the Antiochian Archdiocese), promoting his version of Orthodoxy, “As an Orthodox Christian I believe in the separation of races into ethnically based Church’s. That is why even in Orthodoxy there is for instance a Greek, Russian, Romanian, Serbian, etc. Orthodox Church. Regional and racial identity is a fundamental principle of Christianity, must to the dismay of Leftists. I believe black Christians should be in their black Church’s, with black priests, having black kids, going to black Christian schools, etc.”

Deafening Silence

Three years ago, a scandal broke out. An outspoken white supremacist by the name of Matthew Heimbach was received into the Orthodox Church on Lazarus Saturday. A few days later, on Bright Monday, Heimbach and his cohorts from the Traditionalist Youth Network (a white supremacist group...

publicorthodoxy.org

Heimbach envisions an amicable separation of the races as illustrated by his oft-used slogan “Stop the hate, separate.” To accomplish this, Heimbach has pushed for unity between otherwise disparate white-nationalist groups, such as the Ku Klux Klan, the Hammerskin Nation, and the NSM. He has pushed these groups—with mixed results—to soften their explicitly racist rhetoric and abandon vilified symbols like the swastika in order to appear more mainstream. Though he claims to reject violence, he has described violent groups such as the Aryan Terror Brigade as “part of the big White Advocacy tent.”

 

[ArmyMatt]

it doesn’t surprise me

 

[gzt]

This has nothing to do with truly traditional Orthodoxy, but rather people like Matthew Heimbach (who has been excommunicated by the Antiochian Archdiocese), promoting his version of Orthodoxy, “As an Orthodox Christian I believe in the separation of races into ethnically based Church’s. That is why even in Orthodoxy there is for instance a Greek, Russian, Romanian, Serbian, etc. Orthodox Church. Regional and racial identity is a fundamental principle of Christianity, must to the dismay of Leftists. I believe black Christians should be in their black Church’s, with black priests, having black kids, going to black Christian schools, etc.”

Deafening Silence

Three years ago, a scandal broke out. An outspoken white supremacist by the name of Matthew Heimbach was received into the Orthodox Church on Lazarus Saturday. A few days later, on Bright Monday, Heimbach and his cohorts from the Traditionalist Youth Network (a white supremacist group...

publicorthodoxy.org

Heimbach envisions an amicable separation of the races as illustrated by his oft-used slogan “Stop the hate, separate.” To accomplish this, Heimbach has pushed for unity between otherwise disparate white-nationalist groups, such as the Ku Klux Klan, the Hammerskin Nation, and the NSM. He has pushed these groups—with mixed results—to soften their explicitly racist rhetoric and abandon vilified symbols like the swastika in order to appear more mainstream. Though he claims to reject violence, he has described violent groups such as the Aryan Terror Brigade as “part of the big White Advocacy tent.”

View attachment 327846

Yes, precisely this.

 

[archer75]

Heimbach sounds like he's flailing around looking for a "thing" to turn into a cult built around himself.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Heimbach sounds like he's flailing around looking for a "thing" to turn into a cult built around himself.

pretty much.

 

[The Liturgist]

This has nothing to do with truly traditional Orthodoxy, but rather people like Matthew Heimbach (who has been excommunicated by the Antiochian Archdiocese), promoting his version of Orthodoxy, “As an Orthodox Christian I believe in the separation of races into ethnically based Church’s. That is why even in Orthodoxy there is for instance a Greek, Russian, Romanian, Serbian, etc. Orthodox Church. Regional and racial identity is a fundamental principle of Christianity, must to the dismay of Leftists. I believe black Christians should be in their black Church’s, with black priests, having black kids, going to black Christian schools, etc.”

Deafening Silence

Three years ago, a scandal broke out. An outspoken white supremacist by the name of Matthew Heimbach was received into the Orthodox Church on Lazarus Saturday. A few days later, on Bright Monday, Heimbach and his cohorts from the Traditionalist Youth Network (a white supremacist group...

publicorthodoxy.org

Heimbach envisions an amicable separation of the races as illustrated by his oft-used slogan “Stop the hate, separate.” To accomplish this, Heimbach has pushed for unity between otherwise disparate white-nationalist groups, such as the Ku Klux Klan, the Hammerskin Nation, and the NSM. He has pushed these groups—with mixed results—to soften their explicitly racist rhetoric and abandon vilified symbols like the swastika in order to appear more mainstream. Though he claims to reject violence, he has described violent groups such as the Aryan Terror Brigade as “part of the big White Advocacy tent.”

View attachment 327846

Indeed. Since the Patriarchate of Antioch had the good sense to immediately excommunicate Matthew Heimbach unless he publicly repents (which we should pray for; there have been miraculous acts of metanoia in the past) one would both assume and hope that no one accuses any legitimate Orthodox Church of promoting racial violence.

There is a dangerous heretical cult that preys upon traditionalist Roman Catholics called the Palmerian Catholic Church, whose founding “Pope Gregory” actually wrote a replacement bible, and there are also theoretically doctrinally traditional Roman Catholic groups that at first glance look like the SSPX, but are somewhat sketchier. For example, there are two “traditional Latin mass” parishes in my area whose shared priest does not appear to have a bishop.

 

[Nick1000]

I won't really enter into this discussion and will lay low a bit but, I will say that some of the discussion above has been very measured and careful to highlight the differences between true radical outlier renegade Orthodox and "tradition Catholic" and that that is what is truly the focus of FBI concern, one would hope. That kind of careful discussion is all for the good. Unfortunately, I don't think the FBI/DOJ has that kind of fine-tuning knob on identifying targets or harassing the general citizenry. In general, anyone or group that does not support or counters liberalism, LGTQxyz is considered to be white supremacist and a national threat.

There is a lot of reporting, articles, speech out there now that very freely rambles around in a way that puts Orthodoxy in same sentences with some bad actors and there is a willingness on the part of many in DC investigative agencies to gobble that right up for political purposes and and act upon by using it as basis to "monitor" certain groups more. After all, this is the same DOJ/FBI that openly acknowledged that it opened investigations against school parents in Virginia who were rightly protesting the rape of a girl by a transgender in a bathroom. The normal mind would think they would be focused on the sexual assaulter rather than the parents who got rowdy at the meeting.

I am just saying there is a predisposition to look more at groups that do not support the "progressive" causes. I wish that they were just focused on cult members gone rogue- but it is beyond that. And some vigilance is required.

On the plus side, there is unhappiness out there that is being made known.

Alaska’s Attorney General Treg Taylor has signed onto a 20-state letter demanding that the FBI reveal the details regarding a recently leaked “anti-Catholic” memo alleging that traditional, conservative Catholics are somehow a threat to America’s security.

OPINION: Alaska joins 20 states in condemning FBI’s animus against traditional Christians

Alaska’s Attorney General Treg Taylor has signed onto a 20-state letter demanding that the FBI reveal the details regarding a recently leaked “anti-Catholic” memo alleging that traditional…

alaskawatchman.com

And as I said above, there is a lot of media out there with articles and reports that sort of ramble around but are clearly promoting the idea that many people are turning to Orthodoxy or traditional Catholicism as part of a white supremacy or anti-progressive scheme. The FBI/DOJ gobble that right up because that is what their political overlords are demanding these days.

Orthodox Christian churches are drawing in far-right American converts​

Orthodox Christian churches are drawing in far-right American converts

When Sarah Riccardi-Swartz moved from New York City to a small Appalachian town in West Virginia in the fall of 2017, she was searching for an answer to a…

www.wgbh.org

 

[The Liturgist]

I won't really enter into this discussion and will lay low a bit but, I will say that some of the discussion above has been very measured and careful to highlight the differences between true radical outlier renegade Orthodox and "tradition Catholic" and that that is what is truly the focus of FBI concern, one would hope. That kind of careful discussion is all for the good. Unfortunately, I don't think the FBI/DOJ has that kind of fine-tuning knob on identifying targets or harassing the general citizenry. In general, anyone or group that does not support or counters liberalism, LGTQxyz is considered to be white supremacist and a national threat.

There is a lot of reporting, articles, speech out there now that very freely rambles around in a way that puts Orthodoxy in same sentences with some bad actors and there is a willingness on the part of many in DC investigative agencies to gobble that right up for political purposes and and act upon by using it as basis to "monitor" certain groups more. After all, this is the same DOJ/FBI that open acknowledged that it opened investigations against school parents in Virginia who were rightly protesting the rape of a girl by a transgender in a bathroom. The normal mind would think they would be focused on the sexual assaulter rather than the parents who got rowdy at the meeting.

I am just saying there is a predisposition to look more at groups that do not support the "progressive" causes. I wish that they were just focused on cult members gone rogue- but it is beyond that. And some vigilance is required.

On the plus side, there is unhappiness out there that is being made known.

Alaska’s Attorney General Treg Taylor has signed onto a 20-state letter demanding that the FBI reveal the details regarding a recently leaked “anti-Catholic” memo alleging that traditional, conservative Catholics are somehow a threat to America’s security.

OPINION: Alaska joins 20 states in condemning FBI’s animus against traditional Christians

Alaska’s Attorney General Treg Taylor has signed onto a 20-state letter demanding that the FBI reveal the details regarding a recently leaked “anti-Catholic” memo alleging that traditional…

alaskawatchman.com

And as I said above, there is a lot of media out there with articles and reports that sort of ramble around but are clearly promoting the idea that many people are turning to Orthodoxy or traditional Catholicism as part of a white supremacy or anti-progressive scheme. The FBI/DOJ gobble that right up because that is what their political overlords are demanding these days.

Orthodox Christian churches are drawing in far-right American converts​

Orthodox Christian churches are drawing in far-right American converts

When Sarah Riccardi-Swartz moved from New York City to a small Appalachian town in West Virginia in the fall of 2017, she was searching for an answer to a…

www.wgbh.org

I have an extreme confidence in the ability of the Orthodox community to deal with this because of, among other things, the fact that ethnophyletism is condemned as a heresy, which was groundbreaking on the part of Eastern Orthodoxy, and at the time, which was the late 19th century, that ethnophyletism was condemned as heretical within the Orthodox Church its worth noting that the mainline churches in the US were still divided into Northern and Southern components, with the difference in many cases boiling down to their views concerning slavery in the defeated Confederacy. So Orthodoxy has tended to be in a leadership position regarding not discriminating on the basis of race, and indeed the Eastern Orthodox Communion is one of the most ethnically diverse in the world, when one considers the large number of Asian, African and Latin American members.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Over the 20 years I've been Orthodox, I've run into a handful of whackadoodles. One guy said that the Ecumenical Patriarch should hire mercenaries and assassinate the Catholic hierarchy and eventually enforce Orthodoxy on Rome by military might.

 

[archer75]

It seems to be true that there are people who entertain wacky, truly racist ideas, and that a percentage of those people flirt with Orthodoxy or Catholicism.

The notion that Orthodoxy or the RCC are somehow sheltering these people in large numbers, however, is laughable.

One cool thing that can be seen around here at EO parishes is the "mix" of appearances and languages. I know that there are moderately "ethnic" parishes, too, no surprise.

And I would assume the same is true of the RCC. When I went to a Tridentine Mass many years ago as an inquirer, I was struck by the variety of attendees.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Over the 20 years I've been Orthodox, I've run into a handful of whackadoodles. One guy said that the Ecumenical Patriarch should hire mercenaries and assassinate the Catholic hierarchy and eventually enforce Orthodoxy on Rome by military might.

man, and I thought some of the Old Calendarists I have dealt with were nuts.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

It seems to be true that there are people who entertain wacky, truly racist ideas, and that a percentage of those people flirt with Orthodoxy or Catholicism.

The notion that Orthodoxy or the RCC are somehow sheltering these people in large numbers, however, is laughable.

One cool thing that can be seen around here at EO parishes is the "mix" of appearances and languages. I know that there are moderately "ethnic" parishes, too, no surprise.

And I would assume the same is true of the RCC. When I went to a Tridentine Mass many years ago as an inquirer, I was struck by the variety of attendees.

Agreed. These radicals are probably going to think that even ordinary "Traditionalists" aren't traditional enough.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There is a dangerous heretical cult that preys upon traditionalist Roman Catholics called the Palmerian Catholic Church, whose founding “Pope Gregory” actually wrote a replacement bible, and there are also theoretically doctrinally traditional Roman Catholic groups that at first glance look like the SSPX, but are somewhat sketchier. For example, there are two “traditional Latin mass” parishes in my area whose shared priest does not appear to have a bishop.

a replacement Bible? yeesh.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

man, and I thought some of the Old Calendarists I have dealt with were nuts.

You need to get out on the crazy side of the internet. I used to be the EO moderator for beliefnet back in the late 90s and early 2000s. The Old Calendarists were just the tip of the iceberg!

 

[archer75]

You need to get out on the crazy side of the internet. I used to be the EO moderator for beliefnet back in the late 90s and early 2000s. The Old Calendarists were just the tip of the iceberg!

I can't even imagine what you saw back then.

 

[Nick1000]

a replacement Bible? yeesh.

Years ago, maybe still, I don't know, there was some sort of ultra-"traditional" Catholic group in Maine.

Their motto on their website was "If we were any more traditional we would be Jewish."

Ahhh okay. I get it but the LED light on my forehead still flickers from red to yellow a little bit when I read it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

You need to get out on the crazy side of the internet. I used to be the EO moderator for beliefnet back in the late 90s and early 2000s. The Old Calendarists were just the tip of the iceberg!

I shudder to think of such things

 

[ArmyMatt]

Years ago, maybe still, I don't know, there was some sort of ultra-"traditional" Catholic group in Maine.

Their motto on their website was "If we were any more traditional we would be Jewish."

Ahhh okay. I get it but the LED light on my forehead still flickers from red to yellow a little bit when I read it.

wonderful

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’d like to know their definition of radical? The left wing media seems to set the parameters for that….if you’re not 100% into vaccines for COVID, you’re a radical. If you are sick of BLM and racial balkanization, you’re a racist bigot. If you’re not for infantacide, you don’t value women’s “healthcare.” If you refuse to denounce Putin as a genocidal beast of Babylon, you’re a zealot radical. If you don’t have a Zelensky wallet photo, you’re dangerous.

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, CNN, New York Times, and overall media, 80% of my parish are Hezbollah level radicals….