Father Matt - can you help me?

[Light of the East]

Father -

Need some help with a project I am working on. Where can I find a schedule that shows me the appropriate kathismata reading for Sunday Orthros?

The lectionary says Kathisma 2 and 3 are the readings, and within each one of them there are, 3 stasis of psalms.

My question is this, is there an appropriate set of psalms for a particular Sunday Tone, or can I just pick out a particular stasis to read?

Anyone who can help besides Fr. Matt.....please!

And thank you!

 

[Anhelyna]

According to my Psalter [ Canadian OCA ] it's Kathismata 2, 3 and 17 - or polyelei - for Orthros throughout the year except , naturally , for a few occasions

<< On Sunday at Matins , the 3rd Kathisma consists of either the 17th Kathisma when it is appointed , or of the Polyelei when it is appointed , and particularly at a Vigil or the feast of a saint. >>

 

[Light of the East]

According to my Psalter [ Canadian OCA ] it's Kathismata 2, 3 and 17 - or polyelei - for Orthros throughout the year except , naturally , for a few occasions

<< On Sunday at Matins , the 3rd Kathisma consists of either the 17th Kathisma when it is appointed , or of the Polyelei when it is appointed , and particularly at a Vigil or the feast of a saint. >>

Yes, I do see that from the OCA Psalter Online. My question is not so much that as it which stasis of the Psalms to ascribe to a particular Tone or Sunday. I have to come up with a half-hour long Orthros for our parish, which means I can't do the full stasis of the kathisma.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't know what to say if you are doing a condensed Orthros.

 

[Light of the East]

I don't know what to say if you are doing a condensed Orthros.

I probably have messed up my question.

I've finished the first draft. We are going to begin on January 13th, which is Tone One in our parish. The Kathismata calls for three stasis on Sunday - Psalms 9-10 (Stasis I) Psalms 11-13 (Stasis II) and Psalms 14-16 (Stasis III). Since I'm going to be doing a condensed version, I was thinking I could just rotate these every week, beginning with Stasis I, the II, then III, and then back to I. Does that sound okay?

Unfortunately, we don't have the time to do a full Orthros, so I am applying what I learned at seminary where we had a class, interestingly enough, which asked us this very question: "How would you respond if your priest asked you to do a shortened, half-hour Orthros Service before Liturgy?"

 

[ArmyMatt]

I probably have messed up my question.

I've finished the first draft. We are going to begin on January 13th, which is Tone One in our parish. The Kathismata calls for three stasis on Sunday - Psalms 9-10 (Stasis I) Psalms 11-13 (Stasis II) and Psalms 14-16 (Stasis III). Since I'm going to be doing a condensed version, I was thinking I could just rotate these every week, beginning with Stasis I, the II, then III, and then back to I. Does that sound okay?

Unfortunately, we don't have the time to do a full Orthros, so I am applying what I learned at seminary where we had a class, interestingly enough, which asked us this very question: "How would you respond if your priest asked you to do a shortened, half-hour Orthros Service before Liturgy?"

I would say ask your priest, because he might want you to condense it in a different way.

 

[Light of the East]

I would say ask your priest, because he might want you to condense it in a different way.

Thank you. I have and he seemed pleased with the insertions for the projected Orthros.

Do the Kathismata and Odes change during the Sundays of Preparation and Lent? I remember reading from a rather large Lenten Triodion when I was at Holy Trinity Monastery in 2008.

 

[nutroll]

I have seen kathismata abbreviated a number of different ways. Sometimes you just do one stasis. Sometimes you do one psalm from each stasis. Sometimes you do just one kathisma. One of the more intriguing ideas I've encountered is continuing reading the psalter from service to service, picking up where you left off the last time. This seems like a good way to ensure that the whole psalter gets read.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thank you. I have and he seemed pleased with the insertions for the projected Orthros.

Do the Kathismata and Odes change during the Sundays of Preparation and Lent? I remember reading from a rather large Lenten Triodion when I was at Holy Trinity Monastery in 2008.

dunno if they get affected by the preparatory Sundays.

 

[Light of the East]

I have seen kathismata abbreviated a number of different ways. Sometimes you just do one stasis. Sometimes you do one psalm from each stasis. Sometimes you do just one kathisma. One of the more intriguing ideas I've encountered is continuing reading the psalter from service to service, picking up where you left off the last time. This seems like a good way to ensure that the whole psalter gets read.

That's a good idea, and I will probably have to modify things as I go along to fit into the 30 minute time frame I have.

 

[nutroll]

I can't imagine orthros in 30 minutes... Between the six Psalms, the great litany, God is the Lord, a troparion, evlogetaria, a gospel reading and the great doxology, I think you'd easily be at 30 minutes, and that leaves out all kathismata, most litanies, the canons and katavasia, more honorable, the exapostalaria, and the praises. I've found that the antiochian abreviations can get it to around an hour, but even that can take closer to an hour and 15 minutes. Is there a reason for doing orthros in such a short time? I would think that doing the 3rd and 6th hours would be preferable.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Help me, Father Matthew....you're my only hope....

Years ago my father fought with you in the Afghan Wars....

 

[prodromos]

Help me, Father Matthew....you're my only hope....

Years ago my father fought with you in the Afghan Wars....

Not a Seinfeld reference? My sleep will not be restless tonight

 

[AMM]

I can't imagine orthros in 30 minutes... Between the six Psalms, the great litany, God is the Lord, a troparion, evlogetaria, a gospel reading and the great doxology, I think you'd easily be at 30 minutes, and that leaves out all kathismata, most litanies, the canons and katavasia, more honorable, the exapostalaria, and the praises. I've found that the antiochian abreviations can get it to around an hour, but even that can take closer to an hour and 15 minutes. Is there a reason for doing orthros in such a short time? I would think that doing the 3rd and 6th hours would be preferable.

My mission parish does it quickly, in 30-40 minutes. For example, comparing it to this Sunday's Orthros, I believe (if my memory serves) we would do:

• Father says the Trisagion prayers silently
  
• We skip the first prayers and the first Litany and just start with the psalms
• We read 3 psalms, not all 6
• We skip the Great Litany
  
• We do the apolytikions
• we skip the first Little Litany
  
• We do the Kathismata (but it might not be the whole thing... we might normally do just one kathisma)
• We do the evlogetaria
• We do the second Little Litany
• We skip the Hypakoe (I think) and the Anabathmoi
• We do the prokeimenon and Let Everything That Hath Breath
• We do the Gospel
• We do Psalm 50 and the Troparia
  
• I think we skip the Intercession (I think, not entirely sure)
  
• We do the Kontakion and Oikos
• We skip the Synaxarion (and usually do it before the sermon in the Liturgy)
• We do the Katavasias
• We do the Magnificat (singing -- this is the only thing we sing)
• We do the Little Litany
• We do (I think) the Exaposteilarions and Ainoi
• We do the doxasticon
• We read the Great Doxology

Everything is read, too, except the Magnificat. Minimal singing/chanting. I'm normally the reader (though sometimes Khouria does it, but she's elderly and gets short of breath and has to read slowly with lots of pauses. I try to do it instead to help her out, but now that I'm helping behind the iconostasis with Father I don't know that I'll do any more readings...) and I don't know how to chant or sing, so I just read. I'd love to learn, but I know that'd make things go slower.

we cut out a lot. To be honest, this was the first time I'd read through what the full Orthros was supposed to be - there's so much in it that I didn't recognize. Now I'm kinda disappointed at all I'm missing out on, haha. I guess that's part of being at a mission parish.

 

[Light of the East]

I can't imagine orthros in 30 minutes... Between the six Psalms, the great litany, God is the Lord, a troparion, evlogetaria, a gospel reading and the great doxology, I think you'd easily be at 30 minutes, and that leaves out all kathismata, most litanies, the canons and katavasia, more honorable, the exapostalaria, and the praises. I've found that the antiochian abbreviations can get it to around an hour, but even that can take closer to an hour and 15 minutes. Is there a reason for doing orthros in such a short time? I would think that doing the 3rd and 6th hours would be preferable.

This was an exam question when I was in seminary. There are certain things that must be put in, and certain things that can be omitted.

The reason is that we do not have a full-time priest. Our priest drives over an hour to get to the parish and the Liturgy has to start early in the morning so he can return in time to serve the parish he is assigned to. I saw a short window of opportunity from 8 to 8:30 and with the experience I had in seminary writing that paper, I thought perhaps we could fit in some prayers. Fr. Alex appears to be very much in favor of it.

The structure is going to be the Hexapsalmos, One, two or three psalms of the specified Kathsima depending on length. (For instance, the long 17th Psalm will be taken by itself), Sessional Hymn I for the Tone of the Day, Two Odes (Number 9 being mandatory), The Magnificat, Psalm 50, and the Great Doxology. I've done a dry run and can do this in 30 minutes. I'm sure if it runs over by a few minutes Fr. Alex won't mind.

There will be no litanies since there is no priest doing this. This is a reader's service, which is acceptable.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

“Somewhere in this hospital the anguished squeal of pigman cries out.”—-Cosmo Kramer

Not a Seinfeld reference? My sleep will not be restless tonight

 

[ArmyMatt]

“Somewhere in this hospital the anguished squeal of pigman cries out.”—-Cosmo Kramer

nothing is dirtier than a giant ball of oil.

 

[Light of the East]

nothing is dirtier than a giant ball of oil.

You guys got me on this one. I'm not in on the inside joke.

 

[prodromos]

You guys got me on this one. I'm not in on the inside joke.

The Voice

 

[ArmyMatt]

You guys got me on this one. I'm not in on the inside joke.

Seinfeld....always Seinfeld.