Mamaz,
Only to those whom believe.. For those who do not believe are condemned already for they did not believe in the only True Son of God. Therefore they are still dead in their tresspasses. Not redeemed. Not saved. But judged..
We have all already been judged ONCE. It was a condemnation of death.
This is the fall. Christ overcame the fall. All men were under that condemnation. None were excluded. Death means the separation of body and soul which is described in Gen 3:19. It is a pile of dust. Now, if you want Christ to ONLY redeem some, we will not discuss how this could even be possible, but it would mean at the very least you have nobody who will inhabit hell. Who is being condemned to hell in your view? Are there some believers who for some reason were redeemed, but somehow Christ lost them? In John 6:39 he says He lost none that were given to Him. Col 1:15-20 says, ALL THINGS were given to Him. Hardly any wiggle room per scripture.
In order to even have a believer, all men of necessity would need to be given life. On the other hand, if one actually believed in predestination of a person to be a believer, Christ is not necessary. You have God imputing sin to man. Actually many protestants believe God caused Adam to sin, so God is the cause of sin. You also believe that God condones sin, in that He simply declares you righteous. Sin is inconsequential for man as a believer.
But scripture does not support any of that. What it says is that Christ defeated death by death. He overcame the fall for all men, for creation. Nothing is excluded from that redemption.
Thus man was freed from that condemnation to death and sin. Man is given the full responsibility for his actions. He is free to believe or not to believe. And those that do not believe or fall from belief, are already condemned, unless they repent in their life times before physical death.
What you are missing in your whole view, actually you are bypassing the Incarnation and it effect upon the universe. Man as a dead, mortal being cannot believe. It would do no good, since He is already condemned through the death of Adam. That is why all men need life in order to be able to believe. God cannot have an eternal existance with a pile of dust. It would also mean that Satan would be the victor over death, not Christ. Satan would continue, for enterity, to rule this world through the power of death. Heaven and hell do not exist.
Christ came to fulfill the law.
He did both, fulfill and establish. Rom 3:31, A very important little verse you should insert into your theology.
Gal 2:15 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Gal 2:17 "But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!
Gal 2:18 "For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Gal 2:21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
this is speaking about the powerlessness of the law in saving man. If it could then Christ was unnecessary. Man could not save himself, ONLY Christ could do that. And Christ did that. That is the salvation of the world, the redemption of the world, Christ came to save sinners. All men are sinners. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. The us is not believers, but mankind.
This whole litney of texts are actually off topic. They have nothing to do directly with the salvation of our individual souls. Christ saved us, in order that He and man could get back into union and communion, the purpose for which we were created. It has nothing to do with the fall. It is what was lost DUE TO THE FALL. That is why man cannot save Himself, But man was created to be in union and communion with God. Christ restored that ability and capability to all men. No exclusions.
Can any man make this promise to God? It is not the promise of Men that grants salvation for men are born sinners.. It is the very promise and covenant of God that any man can be saved for we are the Children of promise. None are justified by works. Are you saying that Christ shed blood was not enought to wash you white as snow that you have to add to that by doing works?
Of course man cannot make such a promise. Which is precisely the reason that man, being free and still influenced by his mortal nature, (fallen nature), sin in the world, and Satan working particularlly against believers who know that He can persuade many to leave Christ. He would be out of business respective of your view.
Secondly, no man is born a sinner. We are born mortal, with a fallen nature which causes us to sin. We also do not have a sin nature. Our mortal state of being is just that, a state of being. It is not sinful. A nature cannot sin. It is man through is rational soul, his will that sins.
Again, you are correct also in that no one is justified by works, since man could not save himself. Christ justified all men to God. This is what Rom 5:18-19 is saying, also Col 1:15-20, as II Cor 5:18-19. Man has no contribution or any part to play in his salvation from the fall. The part that Christ did for man. But Christ did not save your soul on the cross. This is what we were required to do even before the fall. It is what the fall precluded, the purpose of God creating the world.
It has nothing to do with Christ's shed blood, which propitiated sin, period. Our belief, our faith, our works of righteousness has absolutely NOTHING to do with the salvation of man, the overcoming the fall.
All of your statements in the above quote have absolutely nothing to do with man's relationship with Christ. It is this relationship that God wanted back, because it was lost in the fall, which man is not able to correct. Having the relationship is not the problem for man. Death and sin were the problem.
We were created for Gods Glory. This is why one must be born again for the Glory of God.
Being born, that is believing and accepting Christ does bring glory. But if this is all a believer does, he will not be saved. The purpose of the union and communion is for man to work with God to bring both himself and the creation in which he lives a living sacrifice back to God. We are to work to improve our character as human beings in this world. This is why we are also called the salt of the earth. We are to become perfect as Christ is perfect. It is a goal, which will not be achieved in this life, it will not even be achieved in the next life because we can never BE Christ. There will always as a creature, room to grow.
We are commanded to sin not, to lessen sin, to rid of sinful habits. God does not whitewash you and then permit you to sin as before. It is not just being a good person, but a holy, blameless person. Heathens are good people as well. They can do a lot of good works as well. But the difference is that works and faith must be in tandem or neither one is valid. Read James. It is the manual of Christian living. A believer living a life IN Christ and molding ourselves with His assistance to become LIKE Christ. If one desires not to do this, then he is not In Christ.
My statement: Being born again has no guarantee attached. It is a life lived that matters. It is a life of holiness, being made holy, being transformed into His Likeness. We can freely join this union and we can freely leave the union at any time in our lives.
Your response: You will have to show me in the Scriptures where this is ever spoken.
Where to begin.....
Matt 25:1-13 - This is the parable of the 10 virgins. Five of whom were not prepared for His coming and were not ready. If we become lazy, slack, wayward, even departing at any time, we will be lost if Christ comes before we repent. Watch, pray and be on guard.
Matt 25: 14-30 - This is the parable of the Good Stewards. Same story. These are all members of the Kingdom of God. One enters by faith, but that faith must be sustained, commited to the end. If we do not use what Christ has provided for us, if we misuse it, or reject it either knowingly or because of disregard, we shall lose our inheritance, eternal life with Christ.
Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said, "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Explanation: The key is to observe His commands, then He is with us always, but we can't rebel against God and honestly think we're still going to heaven. That would be living in a dreamworld, and not according to the truth.
Mark 13:13 - All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. Explanation: These words come from Jesus. This is not an Apostle saying this. It is clear that one needs to remain firm, endure, be steadfast, to be saved in the end.
We have the parable of the Sower: Luke 18:5ff, the prodigal son: Luke 15:13ff, the worthless salt Luke 14:34-35, the Vine and branches: John 15:1ff.
Acts 20:28-31- (29)"For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. (30) some will be from their own number.... Explanation: Why would the writer here be concerned with the flock, if the flock is finitely saved upon a one-time ascent of faith? That one is still saved even though they will be a false teacher.
1 Corinthians 3:16,17 - Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.
Why would a believer, in your view, be concerned about defiling the temple of God, ones heart, if it is not possible? Why would God threaten to destroy such a person, if it is not possible?
I Corinthians 8:11 - And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? Explanation: This is in the context of eating idol food and causing a weaker brother to stumble. Obviously, stumbling is a possibility even though this is a Christian brother. Love reigns over knowledge.
1 Corinthians 10:1-12 - ... I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea... and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
These are just a very few, I have about 150 or so of the same type of exhortations for believers to stay on guard, to make sure one is being faithful, that they will endure. All of these are but fodder in a book, if they have no meaning. They are all directed to believers ABOUT believers. Those who are IN the Body of Christ, the Kingdom. Not a single one of these is referencing unbelievers. Those that have not believed.
We are already glorified and justified.. Joint Heirs with Christ. not by anything we have done but by What Christ did for His sheep on the cross. But one must be His sheep to be a joint heir.
He did not do any of this on the Cross. Christ did not save a single soul on the Cross. He restored the purpose of our existance, which is also known as the salvation of our souls, which is union and communion with Him for an eternity. Christ did not need to save us from union; He saved us to have union.
You are correct that we must be His Sheep, to be an heir. But we cannot forfeit that inheritance. We shall not be saved by unbelief, by losing faith, be becoming unfaithful. Scripture makes this so abundantly clear, it is quite difficult to miss it.
So are you trying to say that as you life this life you can make yourself perfect?
We shall never be perfect, but that is the goal. We are commanded to be perfect as He is perfect. It is not just words, meaningless babble, or just words to fill space in a book.
So instead it has to be man that pats himself on the back and says I have made myself perfect in every way?
that is your total misunderstanding of the whole God/man relationship. That is precisely why it is synergistic. It is why we were created. Man is but a creature, and can do nothing without what God gave him and nothing without His assistance. But God cannot save man's soul alone, nor can man save his own soul. It takes both. Again, it is why we will answer for what WE do. We don't stand in judgment because of what God did.
Christianity is not History.. It is a new life in Christ Jesus born of His Spirit. History cannot get one into the Kingdom of God. Only Christ can who is the same yesterday today and forever. History is gone.. Past.. All we have is today.
But it tells the story of God's relations with man. What has been revealed, what has taken place in time.
One indeed needs to ignore both scripture and history to arrive at such a view as you have presented. It may provide a warm fuzzy, psychological feeling that a human being can actually develop his own means of salvation and actually think that it will be effective. Not only that, but each individual can create his own. All you need is a Book called the Bible. It is not what the Bible actually says, or what it has always meant, but what a single person can develop from it contents and declare it dogma for his salvation.
Only those whom are born again can enter into relationship with God. For those whom are not are still dead in their tresspasses..
