Fast & Furious

[MachZer0]

OK, ALL of the House Dems (who weren't in the group of 23 who voted for contempt) walked out of the House now. I think the vote is in, and he's been held in contempt, and Congressman Steny Hoyer (D-MD) is speaking.

Now Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) is speaking at the press conference. "Abuse of power and the wrong thing to do," she says. Yep.

 

[Assuredcw]

It's legally meaningless. The US Attorney for the District of Colombia will review this. It won't stick if he didn't lie.

Didn't you see the link Touma supplied? Holder didn't lie. Someone else did.

This is going to be so easy to resolve, the GOP opposition is going to look like the idiots they are, and Issa and Boehner are going to lose their seats over this. It'll be Shirley Sherrod again. Fox News again - sooner or later, the other congressmen will learn.

 

[MachZer0]

It's legally meaningless. The US Attorney for the District of Colombia will review this. It won't stick if he didn't lie.

Didn't you see the link Touma supplied? Holder didn't lie. Someone else did.

Lying has nothing to do with it. It's about refusing to comply

This is going to be so easy to resolve, the GOP opposition is going to look like the idiots they are, and Issa and Boehner are going to lose their seats over this. It'll be Shirley Sherrod again. Fox News again - sooner or later, the other congressmen will learn.

The House may opt for a civil contempt in which case a judge will have the option to force Holder to provide the documents. If it goes as criminal contempt, the House will likely seek a special prosecutor. In that case, Holder could end up in jail.

 

[Rion]

Glad something good happened today.

 

[Assuredcw]

Lying has nothing to do with it. It's about refusing to comply

The House may opt for a civil contempt in which case a judge will have the option to force Holder to provide the documents. If it goes as criminal contempt, the House will likely seek a special prosecutor. In that case, Holder could end up in jail.

Don't be silly. He's law enforcement. He can withhold information about open cases from Congress. At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if a member of Congress or three were the SUBJECT of a Justice Dept investigation. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Once Congress is above the law, this country is going to go to Hell in a handbasket. I'll put my money on the man who went through a much more strenuous vetting process to get to where he is - that would be the AG, rather than a man who, according to Wikipedia, spent time IN JAIL and was found with an unregistered firearm in his possession, who IMO appears to have conned the good people of San Diego, CA to make him a Congressman. The office of the Attorney General deserves a LOT more respect than that accorded to a person who is only in office for 2 years at a time. Think about it!

 

[MachZer0]

Don't be silly. He's law enforcement. He can withhold information about open cases from Congress.

That isn't the way it works, thus the finding of contempt

At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if a member of Congress or three were the SUBJECT of a Justice Dept investigation. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Payback investigations or punitive IRS audits by this administration wouldn't surprise me in the least, so we're in agreement there

Once Congress is above the law, this country is going to go to Hell in a handbasket. I'll put my money on the man who went through a much more strenuous vetting process to get to where he is - that would be the AG, rather than a man who spent time IN JAIL and conned the good people of San Diego, CA to make him a Congressman. The office of the Attorney General deserves a LOT more respect than that accorded to a person who is only in office for 2 years at a time. Think about it!

The person acting as though he is above the law is Holder, thus the finding of contempt.

 

[Assuredcw]

Visit your local police department, and see if they will let you just take a peek at what they are working on. Law enforcement CAN'T do that. That's the reason for this precedent. The current Congress doesn't respect it, but the legal review is certainly going to include this issue. That's what the commentator on Sean Hannity's show was referring to.

It's too bad Congress played dumb...

 

[MachZer0]

Visit your local police department, and see if they will let you just take a peek at what they are working on. Law enforcement CAN'T do that. That's the reason for this precedent. The current Congress doesn't respect it, but the legal review is certainly going to include this issue. That's what the commentator on Sean Hannity's show was referring to.

It's too bad Congress played dumb...

That's not the same as Congress requesting it. Congress has subpoena power, I don't

 

[MachZer0]

The House has now voted to also find Holder civilly in contempt. So Holder has now been found both criminally and civilly in contempt of Congress.

 

[Assuredcw]

The House has now voted to also find Holder civilly in contempt. So Holder has now been found both criminally and civilly in contempt of Congress.

Not true. It has simply been referred to US Attorney Machen:

House votes to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt - The Washington Post

Quoting from the link:

....In the coming days, the House is expected to refer the contempt charge to Ronald C. Machen, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, who will have to decide whether to press criminal charges against Holder, his boss. Based on a separate vote Thursday authorizing civil action against Holder, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee is expected to mount a court challenge to President Obama’s decision to invoke executive privilege over some of the documents sought by the panel.

It is a simple referral. The House cannot do this by themselves (thank the Lord!).

 

[Assuredcw]

MSNBC is interviewing Katherine Eban of Fortune Magazine (the link Touma provided) right now. This is a BIG discrepancy, and it is looking as though the House's vote is being viewed very skeptically. They are saying, "Not so fast."

 

[Rion]

Well, what do yo expect of MSDNC?

 

[MachZer0]

Not true. It has simply been referred to US Attorney Machen:

House votes to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt - The Washington Post

Quoting from the link:

....In the coming days, the House is expected to refer the contempt charge to Ronald C. Machen, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, who will have to decide whether to press criminal charges against Holder, his boss. Based on a separate vote Thursday authorizing civil action against Holder, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee is expected to mount a court challenge to President Obama’s decision to invoke executive privilege over some of the documents sought by the panel.

It is a simple referral. The House cannot do this by themselves (thank the Lord!).

Actually, you're link proved me right. The House voted on both criminal and civil contempt charges because the civil contempt is easier and quicker to pursue, but the criminal contempt carries serious penalties.

 

[MachZer0]

MSNBC is interviewing Katherine Eban of Furtune Magazine (the link Touma provided) right now. This is a BIG discrepancy, and it is looking as though the House's vote is being viewed very skeptically. They are saying, "Not so fast."

Who is saying not so fast. The contempt votes are over and the process will work its way theough

 

[Assuredcw]

Well, what do yo expect of [MSNBC]?

The part of the story Issa ISN'T telling us - that's what. Because he isn't telling us the whole truth, or even part of it. What he is saying doesn't make any sense. Someone with only a modest level of intelligence is still going to want to look past him to see what might REALLY be going on. That is, unless they are letting their emotions run away with them, instead of looking at the facts.

Oh, and Fortune isn't MSNBC, so it isn't just them - LOL!

Edited for civility.

 

[Assuredcw]

I'll look for the link of that interview and post it tomorrow. It was on Hardball with Chris Matthews. Kudos again to Touma for finding that Fortune article!

 

[TerranceL]

Now Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) is speaking at the press conference. "Abuse of power and the wrong thing to do," she says. Yep.

I'm not at all suprised that Pelosi doesn't understand the job of congress.

"One branch isn't supposed to have excessive force upon the other" and this goes back to the Reagan Administration. Yep.

This isn't excessive.

She also mentioned Holder's fight against voter suppression as a major reason for this opposition. Yep.

So in his fight against voter suppression he sent guns to mexico via the ATF? That's amazing!

 

[RETS]

You don't truly think that Republicans are the only people capable of telling the truth, or interested in discovering it?

ROFL! Uh, no. Actually, the vote for contempt proves that.

Democrats who voted for contempt:
Rep. Jason Altmire, D-Pa.
Rep. John Barrow, D-Ga.
Rep. Dan Boren, D-Okla.
Rep. Leonard Boswell, D-Iowa
Rep. Ben Chandler, D-Ky.
Rep. Mark Critz, D-Pa.
Rep. Joe Donnelly, D-Ind.
Rep. Kathy Hochul, D-N.Y.
Rep. Ron Kind, D-Wis.
Rep. Larry Kissell, D-N.C.
Rep. Jim Matheson, D-Utah
Rep. Mike McIntyre, D-N.C.
Rep. Bill Owens, D-N.Y.
Rep. Collin Peterson, D-Minn.
Rep. Nick Rahall, D-W.Va.
Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark.
Rep. Tim Walz, D-Minn.

Glad something good happened today.

Amen.

Don't be silly. He's law enforcement. He can withhold information about open cases from Congress.

Two things:

1. Is your every defense now "don't be silly?"

2. The guidelines of his office clearly state that he cannot.

Once Congress is above the law, this country is going to go to Hell in a handbasket.

And once the AG is above the law, the citizens will have no means to fight that trip.

The House has now voted to also find Holder civilly in contempt. So Holder has now been found both criminally and civilly in contempt of Congress.

Saw that one coming.

<staff edit>

<staff edit>

<staff edit>

<staff edit>

 

[SharonL]

I don't think it has so much to do with race as it does this is their new mode of operation. If they don't like what is happening - they walk out - look at WI - weeks in hotels so they would not have to vote - nothing done about it - today they walk out and and don't vote. I don't think they should get paid if they don't do their job - the mode of operation if you don't play my way - I'll take my ball and go home - should have accountability.

 

[Assuredcw]

I don't think it has so much to do with race as it does this is their new mode of operation. If they don't like what is happening - they walk out - look at WI - weeks in hotels so they would not have to vote - nothing done about it - today they walk out and and don't vote. I don't think they should get paid if they don't do their job - the mode of operation if you don't play my way - I'll take my ball and go home - should have accountability.

Just like the female legislators in Georgia (it was Georgia) walked out:

Georgia Female Legislators Stage Walk Out To Protest Anti-Abortion And Contraception Bills | ThinkProgress

So also there were Congresswomen in the US Congress who walked out earlier in the year:

House Democrats Walk Out Of One-Sided Hearing On Contraception, Calling It An 'Autocratic Regime'

<staff edit>

<staff edit>