Fast & Furious

[MachZer0]

Crazy like a fox.

Crazy would seem to more likely describe someone who keeps denying something for which there is documented evidence to the contrary

 

[Assuredcw]

There appears to be enough eviednce, just not enough corage in the DOJ since they would have to prosecute their boss. That's why you'll be hearing calls for a special prosecutor.

Google Issa / Holder / Evidence and I think you'll see that there is general agreement that there WAS no evidence that Holder lied to Congress. If there had been evidence it would've been the start of an impeachment process and not just contempt. A civil judge is going to look at this, as well as two Inspectors General, but some people just won't accept that Holder (the top Prosecutor in the nation) is not himself a criminal, regardless of how many people are going to say that he isn't.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Darrell Issa is crazy.

Huh?

I thought you were a citizen for civil public discourse, Assuredcw?

 

[MachZer0]

Google Issa / Holder / Evidence and I think you'll see that there is general agreement that there WAS no evidence that Holder lied to Congress. If there had been evidence it would've been the start of an impeachment process and not just contempt. A civil judge is going to look at this, as well as two Inspectors General, but some people just won't accept that Holder (the top Prosecutor in the nation) is not himself a criminal, regardless of how many people are going to say that he isn't.

That's demonstarbly false since we all know he said he had just heard of Fast and Furious when documents show otherwise

 

[Rion]

House could arrest Holder with inherent contempt power - Washington Times

They've already said they won't. Darn, that'd be hilarious.

 

[TerranceL]

Who cares what the "whistleblowers" SAID?

Investigators.

People who want to know the truth.

The American taxpayers.

The family of Brian Terry.

 

[TerranceL]

Huh?

I thought you were a citizen for civil public discourse, Assuredcw?

LOL

 

[Assuredcw]

Originally Posted by Assuredcw

Darrell Issa is crazy.
​

Huh?

I thought you were a citizen for civil public discourse, Assuredcw?

Oh, I'm restraining myself, BELIEVE me. I'll content myself with "crazy."

 

[NightHawkeye]

Oh, I'm restraining myself, BELIEVE me. I'll content myself with "crazy."

LOL ... In that case I commend you highly, Assuredcw.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

House could arrest Holder with inherent contempt power - Washington Times

They've already said they won't. Darn, that'd be hilarious.

How many of those cards do you have?

 

[Rion]

Just the one. Debating on doing Holder, Soros or Teleprompter next.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Tales From Fast and Furious Part 6: Obama Administration Cover-up-
administration-cover-up/
http://web.me.com/kzvideo/OF/Obama_Files_Home.html

Until now, I did not understand what really went on. Thank you for posting.

 

[Rion]

Retaliation feared for Fast and Furious whistle-blowers - Washington Times

 

[dobson67]

Sorry, but the ATF is under Holder's Jurisdiction.

From the atf.gov website:

Effective January 24, 2003, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) was transferred under the Homeland Security bill to the Department of Justice. The law enforcement functions of ATF under the Department of the Treasury were transferred to the Department of Justice. The tax and trade functions of ATF will remain in the Treasury Department with the new Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau.
In addition, the agency’s name was changed to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to reflect its new mission in the Department of Justice.

Fast & Furious does indeed fall under AG Holder. As such, he has responsibility for their actions or inaction.


Holder has failed to cooperate fully with the congressional investigation. This would not be that major a deal if not for the hundreds of innocent lives lost due to this botched operation. Therefore I do think he should be held in contempt.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Retaliation feared for Fast and Furious whistle-blowers - Washington Times

What a nest of vipers: Retaliation feared for Fast and Furious whistle-blowers - Washington Times

In a letter asking for action, the two men said the whistle-blowers, who weren't named, have been put under the supervision of a man who had already promised to "take them down" for their involvement in exposing the scandal, which this past week resulted in the House voting to hold Mr. Holder in contempt of Congress.
...
Mr. Grassley and Mr. Issa asked the inspector general to find out how ATF came to put Mr. Thomasson in charge of the whistle-blowers and demanded to know if any steps are being taken to protect them.
​

At this point I expect the whistle blowers are already fully committed. I won't be surprised if the administration takes them down ... but I'd be surprised if they don't take down others in the administration with them.

 

[freezerman2000]

What a nest of vipers: Retaliation feared for Fast and Furious whistle-blowers - Washington Times

In a letter asking for action, the two men said the whistle-blowers, who weren't named, have been put under the supervision of a man who had already promised to "take them down" for their involvement in exposing the scandal, which this past week resulted in the House voting to hold Mr. Holder in contempt of Congress.
...
Mr. Grassley and Mr. Issa asked the inspector general to find out how ATF came to put Mr. Thomasson in charge of the whistle-blowers and demanded to know if any steps are being taken to protect them.
​

At this point I expect the whistle blowers are already fully committed. I won't be surprised if the administration takes them down ... but I'd be surprised if they don't take down others in the administration with them.

If they go down, I hope they go down swinging!
Another case of Good ol' Boy cronyism!

 

[Assuredcw]

Sorry, but the ATF is under Holder's Jurisdiction.

From the atf.gov website:



Fast & Furious does indeed fall under AG Holder. As such, he has responsibility for their actions or inaction.


Holder has failed to cooperate fully with the congressional investigation. This would not be that major a deal if not for the hundreds of innocent lives lost due to this botched operation. Therefore I do think he should be held in contempt.

I think there is some misunderstanding here. Holder is not the department head. ATF falls under Holder's jurisdiction, because he is the top Federal prosecutor and if the ATF does something wrong, it is Holder who has to look into whether or not criminal charges should result. If Holder's head HAS to roll every time one of the agencies under his jurisdiction does something wrong, just because, "Well, he is the one (supposedly) in charge," no one would ever face criminal prosecution. You could just always blame it all on the Attorney General. Frankly, that doesn't make any sense to me.

Once again, here is the organizational chart for the DOJ and the agencies that report to it:

USDOJ: about: Department of Justice Agencies

Note how many organizations are supposedly "under" Holder. He isn't running them - they represent the agencies that feed him evidence for criminal prosecutions, but also he would have to investigate THEM if something irregular happened. You'd really have to have hard evidence, such as an email addressed to a subordinate, ordering them to do something illegal. You can't just verbally accuse him. As I said on Rion's thread, if you're asked to do something questionable that might backfire on you later, you keep a copy of the communication, just to cover yourself. This is common sense, and if I do it (and I do), someone who works for the DOJ and is likely to themselves be an attorney, is definitely going to know to do that. These people have no excuse for not being able to provide hard evidence if any of them are going to be whistleblowers. (I think it is only ATF so far, though.)

And here is a Wikipedia of the Attorney General's job description:

United States Attorney General - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once again, he is not described as running the ATF, the FBI, the DEA, etc, etc. He is primarily "concerned with legal affairs."

Quoting from the link:

The original duties of this officer were "to prosecute and conduct all suits in the Supreme Court in which the United States shall be concerned, and to give his advice and opinion upon questions of law when required by the president of the United States, or when requested by the heads of any of the departments."[1] Only in 1870 was the Department of Justice established to support the attorney general in the discharge of his responsibilities.

If you want his head to roll, you REALLY have to have evidence that he got involved in it and told you to do something, because the odds are not good that he even approved Fast & Furious, let alone was involved in its operations.

 

[TerranceL]

Retaliation feared for Fast and Furious whistle-blowers - Washington Times

weren't named, have been put under the supervision of a man who had already promised to "take them down" for their involvement in exposing the scandal, which this past week resulted in the House voting to hold Mr. Holder in contempt of Congress.

Classy, mr. holder.

 

[Assuredcw]

He doesn't run the ATF. If people are so worried about retaliation from Holder, they should have actual communication with Holder that they can DOCUMENT. Very few people (and probably no ATF agents) would have had any contact with him at all.

 

[NightHawkeye]

He doesn't run the ATF. If people are so worried about retaliation from Holder, they should have actual communication with Holder that they can DOCUMENT. Very few people (and probably no ATF agents) would have had any contact with him at all.

Nope, no communication at all ... zip, zero, nada, nothing ...

LOL ... reminds me of Evita. Can't say why.

Madonna - Evita - 02. Oh What a Circus (1996) - YouTube