Fast & Furious

[SharonL]

I heard one of the Senators this morning say that the contempt charge in the end won't really mean anything. They hold him in contempt - the DOJ has to appoint an investigator (who reports to Holder) it will be drug out for years and will have no affect on anything right now - Holder will go on breaking the law and Obama will protect him, because Holder is protecting Obama - round and round we go, where it stops, nobody knows.

 

[MachZer0]

I heard one of the Senators this morning say that the contempt charge in the end won't really mean anything. They hold him in contempt - the DOJ has to appoint an investigator (who reports to Holder) it will be drug out for years and will have no affect on anything right now - Holder will go on breaking the law and Obama will protect him, because Holder is protecting Obama - round and round we go, where it stops, nobody knows.

What it means is that what is appearing to be a bipartisan vote for contempt will make Holder damaged goods. Obama will have to toss him under that now crowded bus or resign himself to overwhelming defeat in November.

 

[Assuredcw]

I heard one of the Senators this morning say that the contempt charge in the end won't really mean anything. They hold him in contempt - the DOJ has to appoint an investigator (who reports to Holder) it will be drug out for years and will have no affect on anything right now - Holder will go on breaking the law and Obama will protect him, because Holder is protecting Obama - round and round we go, where it stops, nobody knows.

SharonL, we finally agree on something!!!

This is true - if they are absolutely convinced that Holder has done something wrong, why tip him off? Quietly get EVIDENCE first and then go for impeachment.

Honestly, that is what I find so frustrating about this process - they should leave him alone unless they have evidence, because IMO (I know you aren't saying this) this could be another Shirley Sherrod situation and they don't want to have to apologize later - LOL!

 

[Assuredcw]

Rion:

Matheson: Holder should be held in contempt | The Salt Lake Tribune

Uh oh again, Assured. Looks like even the Dems are starting to bail on your hero.

Hi Rion.

OK, let's have a look at this...

My impression is that we already heard that a couple of the Dems would be joining the Republicans in voting for contempt, and that this Utah newspaper (are you in Utah?) is identifying one of them for us. It isn't particularly new. Also, Utah is an extremely conservative state - I have met a few people from there, and oh WOW are they conservative...

 

[MachZer0]

Hi Rion.

OK, let's have a look at this...

My impression is that we already heard that a couple of the Dems would be joining the Republicans in voting for contempt, and that this Utah newspaper (are you in Utah?) is identifying one of them for us. It isn't particularly new. Also, Utah is an extremely conservative state - I have met a few people from there, and oh WOW are they conservative...

Regardless of your perception, it is still looking to be a bipartisan result.

 

[MachZer0]

SharonL, we finally agree on something!!!

This is true - if they are absolutely convinced that Holder has done something wrong, why tip him off? Quietly get EVIDENCE first and then go for impeachment.

Honestly, that is what I find so frustrating about this process - they should leave him alone unless they have evidence, because IMO (I know you aren't saying this) this could be another Shirley Sherrod situation and they don't want to have to apologize later - LOL!

That would be the job of a special prosecutor which is what Americans need for this case

 

[Assuredcw]

Regardless of your perception, it is still looking to be a bipartisan result.

Nobody said stupidity wasn't occasionally bipartisan... :o

 

[Rion]

Nobody said stupidity wasn't occasionally bipartisan... :o

Are you suggesting some Republicans won't vote for contempt?

 

[Assuredcw]

That would be the job of a special prosecutor which is what Americans need for this case

Not so fast. All of this is premature without evidence. The Attorney General is not expendable, because he is currently doing things that no one else can do. That's like saying, let's get all of the files of the local district attorney, and let all of the criminal cases he or she is working on, go to hell. You wouldn't want to do that, even if you could.

 

[Rion]

Not so fast. All of this is premature without evidence. The Attorney General is not expendable, because he is currently doing things that no one else can do. That's like saying, let's get all of the files of the local district attorney, and let all of the criminal cases he or she is working on, go to hell. You wouldn't want to do that, even if you could.

...potential Attorney Generals aren't that hard to find. I think this guy is quite expendable, and that we'd be better off with him behind bars.

 

[Assuredcw]

...potential Attorney Generals aren't that hard to find. I think this guy is quite expendable, and that we'd be better off with him behind bars.

Issa should have thought of going for impeachment rather than contempt then, because as SharonL has pointed out, contempt is a mess that will drag on for YEARS. If you want to just get rid of him, impeachment is the way to go ...unless you KNOW that you will NEVER have evidence.

It's interesting, isn't it?

 

[Sistrin]

Not so fast. All of this is premature without evidence. The Attorney General is not expendable...

Of course he is. In the sense everyone can be replaced regardless of what position they hold, everyone is expendable. Your argument is an attempt to claim the means, however foul, justifies the end.

 

[SharonL]

SharonL, we finally agree on something!!!
Assuredcw - I had not noticed that we didn't agree on all things.

 

[Touma]

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

Interesting read.

 

[Rion]

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

Interesting read.

Do you have a source that isn't a blog?

Seriously though, I'm half-way through. It is interesting, but many of their statements contradict what other agents have stated, what emails have shown, and what the people who were made to sell the guns have testified to. The fawning nature of the piece doesn't help convince me to disregard everything I've read so far.

 

[Vylo]

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

Interesting read.

Huh, that is an interesting read.

This whole thing is one jumbled mess.

 

[Assuredcw]

Of course he is. In the sense everyone can be replaced regardless of what position they hold, everyone is expendable. Your argument is an attempt to claim the means, however foul, justifies the end.

I mean the POSITION, not the person, of course. You get evidence and GET RID of him (impeachment), or you let him get on with his investigation. What Issa is doing in just settling for contempt, is obstruction and is diverting resources that could be used to solve the Brian Terry situation sooner.

 

[Rion]

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

Interesting read.

Okay, so why did the ATF ignore firearm sellers when they tipped them off about straw buyers?

Also, if they were able to do such an indepth investigation of something so blatantly biased, why has the mainstream media tried to ignore it, rather than fighting back with the truth? Why haven't the Dems made their case with all of this information, and why has Holder admitted to things which are completely at odds with the claims? They mention he does, but I don't recall an explaination. The DoJ has admitted the walking was done intentionally, Holder's defense was that he wasn't aware of it.

Additionally, can anyone from Arizona verify that you can buy three guns like you would a sandwhich? That sounds absurd. If it isn't like that, then why didn't the author point out the fallacy of this argument?

Overall interesting, but it seems to make me think that all of the ATF guys were involved, and now the two groups are just trying to offer the other side as scapegoats to save their own hides.

 

[Touma]

Okay, so why did the ATF ignore firearm sellers when they tipped them off about straw buyers?

Also, if they were able to do such an indepth investigation of something so blatantly biased, why has the mainstream media tried to ignore it, rather than fighting back with the truth? Why haven't the Dems made their case with all of this information, and why has Holder admitted to things which are completely at odds with the claims? They mention he does, but I don't recall an explaination. The DoJ has admitted the walking was done intentionally, Holder's defense was that he wasn't aware of it.

Additionally, can anyone from Arizona verify that you can buy three guns like you would a sandwhich? That sounds absurd. If it isn't like that, then why didn't the author point out the fallacy of this argument?

Overall interesting, but it seems to make me think that all of the ATF guys were involved, and now the two groups are just trying to offer the other side as scapegoats to save their own hides.

Shrug. I don't know. I just posted it because it was relevant to the discussion.

 

[RETS]

That would be the job of a special prosecutor which is what Americans need for this case

Starr? Oh, Starr? Wherefore art thou, Starr?

Not so fast. All of this is premature without evidence. The Attorney General is not expendable, because he is currently doing things that no one else can do. That's like saying, let's get all of the files of the local district attorney, and let all of the criminal cases he or she is working on, go to hell. You wouldn't want to do that, even if you could.

Again...

1) They have some evidence. They're looking for more. Ever been investigated, Assured? Believe me, at some point in the investigation, people show up with search warrants and subpoenas.

2) The AG is as expendable as any other politician; and frankly, ought not to be one. That's how you get into this sort of mess to begin with.

2b) He is doing things that any attorney within that office can do. He is not Superman. He is not a savior. He is a man; a man who has been granted the privileges and powers of a federal office- An office that, if occupied by another person, will continue to be the Office of the AG.

3) The DA in my former hometown was investigated. Yes, he did have to drop out of all the cases he was working on. Guess what? No one noticed anything more than a hiccup. Know why? BECAUSE THERE'S A FULL STAFF TO TAKE ON THOSE CASES! The DA, just like the AG, rarely does any actual work themselves- And that's straight from the horse's mouth.

4) We can do that; and more and more people are demanding we do that. Your own mini-poll is now showing 30 to 7 in favor. How much longer are you going to act as though the majority stands with you?