Fast & Furious

[Assuredcw]

Except they won't, remember? They said "We will not prosecute our boss."

I believe you told us about that. So, I guess even in the case of Holder being dirty, he'll still get away with it.


Awesome to know that I could potentially be a criminal in charge of the Justice System.

Kinda like the nuts running the nut house.

You certainly wouldn't prosecute the boss, or anyone else for that matter, without evidence. Prosecutors are always telling people they don't have enough evidence to prosecute, so they are the ones who know, and if you didn't provide any evidence (as opposed to not enough), then you don't have to wait for them to tell you they're NOT going to prosecute. That would not be such an earth-shattering surprise.

Innocent unless proven guilty is the basis of our Justice system (you have a law background, so I should be preaching to the choir, here). The contempt thingie that they sent to the US Attorney of DC didn't contain evidence (so the committee admitted), so what other choice would the Justice Dept have had? And what other response would Issa have been expecting? Just because (ignorant) people want to say the Justice Dept has become the in-Justice Dept, doesn't make it true, and furthermore, I am not sure why you are saying it at all. If there was no evidence, no one would have been able to do anything else. That is why Darrell Issa is crazy.

 

[Assuredcw]

See RETS, all those 5 members of ATF management would have had to do, is show their email correspondence from whomever, authorizing their gunwalking program, to the House Committee. And all the US Attorney of Arizona would have had to do, is show his email correspondence from Holder himself, to that committee. Then the committee submits that to the US Attorney of DC, and he places Holder on leave while he investigates his involvement.

Therefore, I don't buy that the failure to produce evidence of Holder's involvement, has an innocent explanation. On the contrary, unless they can prove otherwise, they were insubordinate and they should be punished, because unless Holder was involved, they shouldn't have been DOING that in the first place. The failure to involve Holder and get his approval prior to continuing the program, is what I am driving at, here, and that's insubordination.

 

[RETS]

You certainly wouldn't prosecute the boss, or anyone else for that matter, without evidence.<snip>

Do you have any idea the kind of circles you've just spun??

 

[Assuredcw]

Do you have any idea the kind of circles you've just spun??

No, it's Darrell Issa trying to interrupt a process that he isn't supposed to be participating in, and getting nowhere. That's all. He's the one facing endless frustration, if he thinks he is going to force anyone to let him look at those files.

 

[RETS]

I'm jumping off this ride for a bit... I'm getting dizzy following the "logic."

 

[TerranceL]

You certainly wouldn't prosecute the boss, or anyone else for that matter, without evidence. Prosecutors are always telling people they don't have enough evidence to prosecute, so they are the ones who know, and if you didn't provide any evidence

It especially helps when you are apparently hiding information.

 

[SharonL]

Assured - Have to give you credit - I've never seen such loyalty as you have displayed throughout this thread - no matter what anyone has said, you are right there defending these actions. I hope you are right - you have a lot of threads to eat if you'r not. LOL

 

[Assuredcw]

Assured - Have to give you credit - I've never seen such loyalty as you have displayed throughout this thread - no matter what anyone has said, you are right there defending these actions. I hope you are right - you have a lot of threads to eat if you'r not. LOL

LOL! It's true. Thanks!

But I am in California (just like SmellsLikeCurlyFries used to be), and just like him, I am not wild about Issa. But I still carefully examined everything in the OP, just as I said I would (because you never know). And no, I don't buy it, and yes, Holder is an impressive guy who has done good things, and if he is removed, I don't want someone like Issa doing the "honors" because I simply don't buy it. I do trust the Justice Dept to say, "Oh no you don't" if they find out Holder has been talking to Mexico about F & F. I trust them more than I do Issa.

 

[SharonL]

I can't find the backup on it - but there was a picture of a chart that show conviction rates for federal offenses in the Clinton, Bush and Obama cabinets - Clinton had over 1,000, Bush had over 1,000 and Obama had zero - would that indicate that there is coverups big time?

 

[Assuredcw]

I can't find the backup on it - but there was a picture of a chart that show conviction rates for federal offenses in the Clinton, Bush and Obama cabinets - Clinton had over 1,000, Bush had over 1,000 and Obama had zero - would that indicate that there is coverups big time?

I doubt that it's zero, SharonL, but I can easily believe that it's lower than the other administrations, if only because Holder has been spending so much time on this F & F thing (answering Congress and cleaning it up). It's kind of like when people say, "President Obama hasn't done anything" when in fact, nothing he has proposed gets through Congress because of obstruction. Oh, WAIT -- this is more obstruction, probably.

I'm a Democrat, and I don't like having my President and AG sabotaged. We will see how this situation turns out. But make no mistake about it, somebody wanted Holder's prosecution efforts slowed down. And they appear to have gotten their way on that. I'm not convinced that Holder is accommodating anyone.

 

[SharonL]

The DOJ is in such a mess under the 'watchful eyes' of Holder and Napolitano that our border patrol agents don't know which way to turn - they are passing laws that contradict each other. There is a border patrol agent on suspension because he arrested a person that falls into the 'my parents brought me here' but he is guilty of a crime. They truely do not know what they are doing.

 

[Assuredcw]

The DOJ is in such a mess under the 'watchful eyes' of Holder and Napolitano that our border patrol agents don't know which way to turn - they are passing laws that contradict each other. There is a border patrol agent on suspension because he arrested a person that falls into the 'my parents brought me here' but he is guilty of a crime. They truely do not know what they are doing.

Holder has been a Federal judge and attorney for at least the last 20 years, and no one has doubted his competence and knowledge, least of all President Ronald Reagan, who first appointed him. He has been awarded appointment, after appointment, after appointment these last 20 plus years (as opposed to arrest, after arrest, after arrest - LOL!). Now, immigration issues fall under Janet Napolitano's purview and not Eric Holder's, and this thread is about Eric Holder and not Janet Napolitano's Homeland Security Dept. Yet and still, I am willing to bet that she is likewise distracted, not intentionally, but because there is more on her plate in this post-911 era. We've had no terrorist attacks, which means that whatever she hears about, she handles. I do like that.

Edited: President Obama's recent Executive Order probably lightened her load a bit, as did his directive that deportations of illegals with criminal records were a higher priority. You have to prioritize when there is too much to do.

 

[Assuredcw]

Once again, SharonL, this thread is on Eric Holder and Fast & Furious, but today's Huffington Post gives a timely idea of what Janet Napolitano has been up to lately:

Military Terror Plot: Murder Case Uncovers Terror Plot By 'Militia' Within U.S. Military

 

[Rion]

Exclusive: Fast and Furious IG report slams ATF Phoenix personnel - CBS News

A total lie.
November 2009 - The ATF Phoenix Field Division applied to Justice Department headquarters to become an "Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force" (OCDETF) case. In preparing their application the ATF in Phoenix wrote a memo explaining the investigative technique of Fast and Furious.

January 2010 - The application for Fast and Furious was approved. Agents with the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force : a multi-agency network run by the Justice Department and investigators from Homeland Security, the Internal Revenue Service, and the Drug Enforcement Administration join the investigation in Arizona .

 

[Assuredcw]

Exclusive: Fast and Furious IG report slams ATF Phoenix personnel - CBS News

A total lie.
November 2009 - The ATF Phoenix Field Division applied to Justice Department headquarters to become an "Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force" (OCDETF) case. In preparing their application the ATF in Phoenix wrote a memo explaining the investigative technique of Fast and Furious.

January 2010 - The application for Fast and Furious was approved. Agents with the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force : a multi-agency network run by the Justice Department and investigators from Homeland Security, the Internal Revenue Service, and the Drug Enforcement Administration join the investigation in Arizona .

None of us are attorneys working for the Justice Dept, but they all know that the Inspector General is conducting an investigation on Fast & Furious. If they have something to say, they'll talk. We're the "unwashed masses" in the peanut gallery, watching the show.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unwashed_masses

 

[TerranceL]

(idiomatic) The collective group ("mass") of people who are considered by someone to be somehow uneducated, uninformed, or in some other way unqualified for inclusion in the speaker's elite circles.

Uh....huh.


You might be more than happy to consider yourself one of the "unwashed masses" but dont' refer to the rest of us as such, we are actually interested in the truth.

 

[Assuredcw]

Uh....huh.


You might be more than happy to consider yourself one of the "unwashed masses" but dont' refer to the rest of us as such, we are actually interested in the truth.

But you don't have a license to practice law, a college degree in Constitutional law, and experience in law enforcement, which means, as viewed by attorneys who work for the Justice Dept, you (and I as well) would be the "great unwashed." Showers notwithstanding, but you understand.

We can't know better than they do. All a Christian can do is pray, because I don't believe that God would allow anyone who did this to get away with it. I have been praying, and trusting God that they would not cover for Holder, or anyone, if they know someone did something.

 

[Assuredcw]

Fast and Furious Report Destroys Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories | Swampland | TIME.com

This is a pretty impressive piece of follow-up news. It also is the first thing I have ever seen Time Magazine say about this thing. I really do think it was viewed skeptically by people who know about Eric Holder. He is well-known and is well-respected. He is not perfect, obviously, but people really want to see PROOF before they are willing to believe these things. It isn't just me -- LOL!

 

[Faith.Man]

Mexican Cartels Violently Beat and Kill Female Mayor

Mexican Cartels Violently Beat and Kill Female Mayor - Katie Pavlich

Katie Pavlich is the author of Fast and Furious, a book I'm reading now.

 

[RETS]

Oh. My. Holy Hand Grenade...