Fast & Furious

[NightHawkeye]

Now we appear to be getting somewhere -- the Feds have identified the people who killed Agent Terry:

Fast and Furious: FBI Unseals Brian Terry Indictments | TPMMuckraker

The FBI is looking for them - they are considered to be fugitives at this point. The indictment was recently unsealed.

Ummh, not to rain on the parade or anything ... but how exactly does finding the killers further the investigation into who ordered Fast and Furious? In other words, who knew what and when?

It's not exactly like these killers were the equivalent of Osama Bin Laden and were at the highest levels of either organized crime or the US government.

 

[RETS]

Ummh, not to rain on the parade or anything ... but how exactly does finding the killers further the investigation into who ordered Fast and Furious? In other words, who knew what and when?

It doesn't further the investigation into F&F- That's the point. Nothing like a good smokescreen.

However, at least this smokescreen will at the very least bring about some justice for Terry's family. (Full justice being who was ultimately at fault for his death in the first place.)

 

[Assuredcw]

It doesn't further the investigation into F&F- That's the point. Nothing like a good smokescreen.

However, at least this smokescreen will at the very least bring about some justice for Terry's family. (Full justice being who was ultimately at fault for his death in the first place.)

The FBI can look for the people who killed Agent Terry. The AG is probably investigating who did what to whom re: Fast & Furious, himself. Unfortunately, that's his job. I wouldn't be surprised if someone who was either fired or resigned earlier, ends up in prison or something. We will see.

 

[RETS]

The FBI can look for the people who killed Agent Terry. The AG is probably investigating who did what to whom re: Fast & Furious, himself. Unfortunately, that's his job. I wouldn't be surprised if someone who was either fired or resigned earlier, ends up in prison or something. We will see.

Frankly, I won't be surprised if we see a massive abortion of justice, though I'm praying we don't.

 

[Assuredcw]

Yes - pray. Pray and trust that God will not allow the people behind this, to get away with it.

 

[Assuredcw]

The first Inspector General Report (one of two that are due) is going to be in soon. The GOP Congress has met with the Inspector General and made their own report:

Justice Department shrugs off Fast and Furious report - Los Angeles Times

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/ju...led-responsible-for-fast-and-furious-20120730

 

[NightHawkeye]

The first Inspector General Report (one of two that are due) is now in. The GOP Congress has reviewed it and made their own report:

Justice Department shrugs off Fast and Furious report - Los Angeles Times

An obviously biased article from the LA Times.

Consider that the term Republican was used four times, while Democrat was used but once.

 

[Assuredcw]

An obviously biased article from the LA Times.

Consider that the term Republican was used four times, while Democrat was used but once.

The GOP was awfully quiet about Eric Holder, though. He wasn't mentioned at all, except in passing - they aren't going to admit he had NOTHING to do with it, but they might as well...

 

[RETS]

The GOP was awfully quiet about Eric Holder, though. He wasn't mentioned at all, except in passing - they aren't going to admit he had NOTHING to do with it, but they might as well...

Basing that off of the article, or the report itself?

 

[Rion]

Basing that off of the article, or the report itself?

ZOMBIE! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

And I'd wager the article.

 

[RETS]

Yeah, well... My Email notifications have been getting delayed for some reason.

 

[Assuredcw]

Basing that off of the article, or the report itself?

I'm basing that off of what the LA Times is saying are the main points of the report. The report isn't out yet, so that is yet to be confirmed, but I'm pretty sure they have it right.

 

[Assuredcw]

More on the Justice Dept Inspector General, and his report, and also on a new liason to handle future whistleblowers (no excuse for anyone else to be going straight to Congress to report stuff like this):

Justice inspector general promises an ear for whistleblowers - CNN.com

As I said earlier, I believe the Republicans did meet with the Justice Dept Inspector General to discuss what would be in his report, prior to writing their own report. No doubt they are waiting to try to get some damaging info on Eric Holder from the Homeland Inspector General's report, which is why the "report" on Eric Holder is being promised "later." They will never come up with anything on Eric Holder, because guess what? He didn't DO anything.

 

[SolomonVII]

 

[Rion]

Cartel used Fast and Furious weapon in assassination plot | The Daily Caller

More of Holder's handiwork.

 

[Assuredcw]

Cartel used Fast and Furious weapon in assassination plot | The Daily Caller

More of Holder's handiwork.

Not so fast -- where is the email correspondence from Eric Holder to the ATF bosses, directing traffic on this?

They were insubordinate, calling their own shots, and I'm tellin' ya, Holder had nothing to do with it. I would put money on it, and I would win.

I think there was probably serious hostility to Holder's leadership when the Bush administration became the Obama administration, and furthermore I don't think Holder had a lot of time and energy to reconfigure the ATF's operations to this kind of strategy. The heads in charge of the operation have rolled, and believe me, any number of people would be screaming right now, if Holder was firing, or allowing to be fired, people who were following his orders.

Did Holder order you to do something illegal, and now you're in trouble? Save a copy of that email, and start saying something about it. See what I mean? Didn't happen.

 

[RETS]

I'm basing that off of what the LA Times is saying are the main points of the report. The report isn't out yet, so that is yet to be confirmed, but I'm pretty sure they have it right.

Okay- Hold the phone. You're going to believe the LA Times, who apparently has NOT been given a copy of the report but is instead going off of what someone else has told them, is accurate on what they're reporting??

You realize that at this point, with that report as yet unreleased, you are getting things third and fourth hand, right? And you have played the game of Telephone, right?

Not so fast -- where is the email correspondence from Eric Holder to the ATF bosses, directing traffic on this?

You do realize people erase their emails, especially when they don't want nosy congressmen and senators looking through them, right?

They were insubordinate, calling their own shots, and I'm tellin' ya, Holder had nothing to do with it. I would put money on it, and I would win.

Strong assertion for someone who, as of yet, does not even know whether or not Holder is guilty.

I think there was probably serious hostility to Holder's leadership when the Bush administration became the Obama administration, and furthermore I don't think Holder had a lot of time and energy to reconfigure the ATF's operations to this kind of strategy.

Once more we come to the simple fact that he would have had to do just that. Requirement of office.

The heads in charge of the operation have rolled, and believe me, any number of people would be screaming right now, if Holder was firing, or allowing to be fired, people who were following his orders.

They have been; and what's more, this happens all the time.

Did Holder order you to do something illegal, and now you're in trouble? Save a copy of that email, and start saying something about it. See what I mean? Didn't happen.

Again, not so.

I once worked at a company where I was told to do something against company policy. I personally did not realize it was against policy, so I naturally did it. When it all came out, I pointed to the message I had received. The boss didn't have such a message on his computer- So I was the one lying, apparently.

I got fired by the same guy who told me to do the thing he was firing me for.

So, in light of personal experience, your hypothetical situation and resulting conclusion means bupkiss.

 

[Assuredcw]

You do realize people erase their emails, especially when they don't want nosy congressmen and senators looking through them, right?

RETS, I will only respond to this statement, because we have to base any accusations on evidence.

If the people who were involved in this, have any HOPE of claiming that they were only following Holder's orders, they had better be prepared to PROVE Holder ordered it. Presumably the people who would claim this, would not erase the evidence. Holder's end is only one end, and even assuming that Holder erased his, he would have no control over whether the recipient chose to do so.

 

[Assuredcw]

OK, there is one more statement you should get a response on, RETS:

I once worked at a company where I was told to do something against company policy. I personally did not realize it was against policy, so I naturally did it. When it all came out, I pointed to the message I had received. The boss didn't have such a message on his computer- So I was the one lying, apparently.

Holder's immediate subordinates are all attorneys or high-level management who would certainly have known that this was against Justice Dept policy. The people who didn't know (like Newell), were probably not direct subordinates of Holder's. Holder got rid of the US Attorney in Arizona who was running the program, and this person certainly knew that this was against Justice Dept policy - he was an employee of the Justice Dept and was probably directly accountable to Holder himself.

 

[Assuredcw]

Okay- Hold the phone. You're going to believe the LA Times, who apparently has NOT been given a copy of the report but is instead going off of what someone else has told them, is accurate on what they're reporting??

RETS, the LA Times was shown the report, prior to its release. It's in one of the articles.

Here, I've found it - it was in the second link I provided, on the previous page of this thread:

According to a copy of the report obtained Monday by The Times, the investigators said their findings are “the best information available as of now” about the flawed gun operation that last month led to Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr. being found in contempt of Congress for failing to turn over subpoenaed documents.