False Teachings From Kenneth Hagin.

[TreeOfLife]

Because you reserve the right to attack anyone who you feel attacks the sovereignty of God, I feel that I have the right to aggresively agree with you in all the things you are saying. This is one of the most important principles of the First Apostolic Church of Oneness and Agreeability.

I fully understand that you feel that anyone who says that the Sovereignty of God is just a religious word is an arrant, ignorant knave who should be put up and horsewhipped to an inch of his life. I can feel the hot breath of your anger from here. The ice all around the hut that I am in at Antarctica is melting at this very moment.

So you are prepared to fight against every false doctrine, like Valiant For Truth in John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. You are like the surgeon who is so determined to get rid of the cancerous tissue that you are prepared to take out much healthy tissue as well, and probably kill the patient in the process.

So you disagree with 'bringing God down to our level', when one of the Attributes of Love spoken by Charles Finney is Condescention - where God comes down to our level to fellowship with us. You worship a God who is very high in His glory and is inaccessible to us. Our church teaches the principle of Condescentionality Of God, in that He sent Jesus to us as a man to show us His nature and to fellowship with us.

I can see that you are saying that 'truth is, no matter what.' Is this objective truth? (the absolute truth that is carved in bronze and unchanageable and applicable in every situation), or subjective truth? (the truth that pertains to your level of knowledge).

So, I agree that you will stand for the truth as you see it, and will viciously attack anyone who does not subscribe to your appreciation of what is true to you.


Now I have to inform you that my church, The FAC of O and A, is the only really true church. It is more authentic than the RCC, who claim that they are the true church. I base this assertion on the fact that we hold the most ancient of the New Testament manuscripts which gives much more credance and authority to our teachings.

These manuscripts were found in the ice cave on the side of Mount Erebus in the Antarctic, where there was a settlement of first century Romans. It is now discovered that Smartus Tacticus brought with him the Apostle Rufus who was one of the 3000 people converted on the Day of Pentecost. Rufus attended most of Paul's meetings throughout the then known world, and although it is not recorded that he actually met the Apostle Paul, he made notes at every meeting which he recorded on parchment. These he brought to Mount Erebus after fleeing the Nero persecution at Rome. They are preserved in a very good state because of the below zero temperatures in that region. These are known as the Mount Erebus Scrolls, and can be viewed at the McMurdo Museum of Important Antiquities.

So, you need to be wise and circumspect when responding to my posts, because we have these authentic documents that pre-date any manuscripts that were used to compile the King James Version of the Bible. This is why our King George Revised Version of the Bible is the most accurate in the world. So, in a sense, you will have to agree that our truth is more true than yours.

But we don't fight for it like you do. We agree for it. It is much more positive.

Ok.

 

[victoryword]

My old pastor attended Rhema Bible School. One of the reason we left the church was because week after week we were quoted the words of Hagin and Copeland....instead of the words of the Bible. Back home, I became berean and got frustrated when I couldn't get a solid scriptural backing on teachings such as the 'Devil Ransom Theory' otherwise known as 'The Fishhook Theory'.

The teaching says that because of early sin...man belonged to satan. The only way God could save man was to offer a ransom TO SATAN. However when I dug into the Word...what I found instead were verses showing Christ had given Himself as an offering for us, and as a sacrifice to God not Satan.

1 Tim. 2:5-6 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

Eph. 5:2. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

1 Cor. 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us

Hebrews 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God

Origen in A.D. 230 and Gregory of Nyssa A.D. 370 also taught this theory and were met by strong opposition from the church. It was never an accepted theory.

If a man is going to put together a theory and start defending it as doctrine, at least be able to back it with scripture.

I don't have an opinion about Kenneth Hagin, but my pastor taught this theory as gospel truth ...as taught to him at Rhema.

I just never could accept it as truth.

Many heresy hunters have accused the faith teachers of teaching the so-called ransom theory (the claim that God offered Jesus to Satan). This nothing more than a distortion of the facts. Now, let's get the facts straight.

1. When man rebelled, he most certainly did get under the bondage of Satan. This is what Faith teachers teach and it is backed by so many passages of Scripture that I cannot even understand how anyone who claims to believe the Bible would dispute this truth - Luke 4:6; Acts 26:15-18; Col. 1:12-14; John 8:44; Eph. 2:1-5; 1 John 3:8-10; Heb. 2:14, 15; 1 John 5:19 and others.

2. For a period of time where satan at least had a seeming victory over Jesus - In Gen. 3:15 the devil bruises Christ's heel before Jesus finally crushes his head. Jesus Himself said at the point in which He was to be taken, beaten, and put on the cross that that hour belonged to the powers of darkness (Luke 22:53). Furthermore, Jesus did subject Himself to death, which was under Satan's authority at that time (Acts 2:24-27; Heb. 2:14) until His ressurection, demonstrating the ultimate victory over satan and death. Had Jesus stayed dead then Satan would have won.

3. Part of the redemption package was Jesus destruction of Satan's power over man (Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 3:8). There was a warfare aspect that Jesus had to go through in order to set us free who were captives to satan (2 Cor. 2:14; Col. 2:12-15; Luke 11:21-22; Isa. 49:25).

4. The "ransom theory" that is promoted as heresy by the anti-wof crowd actually has more Scriptural backing than the heresy hunters want to give credit to (Matt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5-6; Hos. 13:14).

5. The faith teachers have NEVER taught that God offered Jesus to Satan as some kind of sacrifice or whatever. This is an invention of the faith critics. If your pastor taught that, He did not get it from the faith The faith teachers simply teach that Jesus paid the penalty for our sin and redeemed us from the enemy. They explicitly teach that it was the blood of Jesus that Jesus offered to God for our eternal salvation after the ascension (Heb, 9:12, 24).

For further study please see the article in the link below:
http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/tenrsn/jds/tenrsn3_3.html

If anyone wants to be a good "Berean" it would behoove them to check all of the facts.

 

[victoryword]

Boring. Very boring. I'm afraid you have taken some passages out of context, failed to read the rhetoric correctly, and made no attempt to balance some of Hagins more outlandish statements within the broader setting of his theology. The result is a caricature; you are seeing the man in the worst possible light. And that isn't fair.

Why is it that you heresy hunter creations never read beyond the cut and paste jobs that certain paranoid people put out on the internet, or the popular, polemical (and profitable) writings of various pop-apologists who have pulled you into their personality orbits? Could it be that you are the ones in a cult? Could the scourge of heresy-hunters in the United States be the real heretics?

I believe in discernment - don't missunderstand me - and I'm not afraid to criticise the teachings of the faith movement where I consider them at variance with reason and the Scriptures, but you are simply not going to understand these people if you don't take the trouble to read what they've written for yourself and if you ignore some of the better books on the faith movement that have been written by people who haven't any axes to grind.

Amen T7

 

[Trish1947]

ProAmerican....2.) "You are as much the Incarnation of God as Jesus Christ of Nazareth...the believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth." (Kenneth Hagin, "The Word of Faith" Dec. 1980, p.14)

This is Blasphemy. The believer is not as much the incarnation of God as was Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Jesus Christ is the only Incarnation of God.

Might I suggest that you get your Bible out again?

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Col. 1:26

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Many sons being brought into glory, is not about lesser sons, He is making us into His image in our spirits.

Brothers, that have the same Father.

 

[victoryword]

Been reading those posts by Superduperman. SDM, you are a NUT!!! You have me cracking up man

I enjoyed reading your posts though I don't think that I will be joining your church. Nonetheless, I hope the council approves of my posts

 

[victoryword]

I never understood this soverienty issue..Why would God keep His sovereinty as an unknown? He is so soveriegn, He used His very own soverienty, to share some of His power with us, to defeat the devil. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Then He told us to go out and do the same thing. Why can't we see that God's sovierenty is always above our own. So if He shares some of His power, by His own soveriegn will, for us to defeat the devil, why do some deny His soverienty? People are using His soverienty to deny His soverienty.

Trish, don't feel bad. I have studied it for several years now and find myself still perplexed as to why many (especially those influenced by Calvinism) would promote the concept to the exclusion of man's free will and ultimate responsibility to cooperate with God.

But you are right, I do believe that by promoting an unbiblical, distorted view of God's sovereignty, too many people have denied the TRUE sovereignty of God by replaicing it with an invention of their own making.

 

[Hisgirl]

5. The faith teachers have NEVER taught that God offered Jesus to Satan as some kind of sacrifice or whatever. This is an invention of the faith critics. If your pastor taught that, He did not get it from the faith The faith teachers simply teach that Jesus paid the penalty for our sin and redeemed us from the enemy. They explicitly teach that it was the blood of Jesus that Jesus offered to God for our eternal salvation after the ascension (Heb, 9:12, 24).

I was only stating my experience with a pastor who attended Rhema and based all of his sermons heavily on the words of Hagin and Copeland. He stated the exact phrase, "God had to pay a ransom to satan".

I have to wonder more about the word 'ransom'....If a ransom was paid to satan, then our freedom was handed to us by satan....if it was paid to God, then was it God who held us captive? Some early words on this subject....

St. Gregory of Nazianz
Second Oration on Easter (383 A.D.)

To whom was that Blood paid out that was shed for us, and why was it

shed, that great and precious Blood of our God, High Priest, and

Victim? We were in bondage to the Evil One, sold under sin, and

receiving pleasure in exchange for wickedness. If a ransom belongs not

to someone else but to him who holds in bondage, I ask you, to whom

was this paid, and for what reason? If to the Evil One, O, what an

outrage! ... If to the Father, first I ask, how can that be? For we

were not detained by Him; and second, why would He be delighted by the

Blood of His Only-begotten Son? .... Surely, it is evident, however,

that the Father did receive [the sacrifice of His Son], though neither

asking nor demanding it, but because His plan of redemption and so

that man might be sanctified by the Humanity of God; so that He

Himself might free us, that He might overcome the tyrant by force, and

that He might lead us back to Himself through the mediation of His Son.

 

[victoryword]

I was only stating my experience with a pastor who attended Rhema and based all of his sermons heavily on the words of Hagin and Copeland. He stated the exact phrase, "God had to pay a ransom to satan".

Not sure why your pastor would make that type of a statement but it certainly is not a common statement made among major faith teachers. For example, Kenyon taught that the blood was presented to the Father as the purchase price of our redemption:

Man has sinned, committed high treason, an unpardonable sin. He had challenged the grace and love of God ... He had trampled under foot God’s loving kindness and now it was necessary that Jesus pay the penalty of man’s transgression ... This He did. When He carried His blood into the Heavenly Holy of Holies and it was accepted by God, it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that man can stand before God as a New Creation without condemnation and with no charges against him. (Kenyon's Herald of Life, April - June 2002)

Matthew 28:6, “Ye seek Jesus, who hath been crucified. He is not here; for He is risen, even as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.”He died as a Lamb; He arose the Lord High Priest; the priestly Lord. He was the Lamb that answered every demand of Justice. His blood was carried by Himself into the Heavenly Holy of Holies (Hebrews 9:12), and it was accepted by the Father as the red seal upon His work as a Saviour. He absolutely met every demand of Justice. (Kenyon's Herald of Life, January - March 2003)

"Jesus, as High Priest, carried His blood into the Holy of Holies, satisfying the claims of justice that were against natural man." (The Blood Covenant, p. 45)
​

I have not heard any teaching from Hgin, Copeland, Price or any others that differed in this respect. Your pastor (or ex-pastor) is obviously one who deviated from the actual WoF teaching and being one who gives a bad name to the movement.

I have to wonder more about the word 'ransom'....If a ransom was paid to satan, then our freedom was handed to us by satan....if it was paid to God, then was it God who held us captive? Some early words on this subject....

Your pastor was clearly wrong for teaching that Jesus was a ransom to Satan, however, no major faith teacher that I am aware of advocates such a position. Nevertheless, Jesus did claim to be a ransom for many:

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Matthew 20:28)

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim. 2:5-6)

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (Hos. 13:14; see also 1 Cor. 15:54-57)
​

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I was only stating my experience with a pastor who attended Rhema and based all of his sermons heavily on the words of Hagin and Copeland. He stated the exact phrase, "God had to pay a ransom to satan".

I have to wonder more about the word 'ransom'....If a ransom was paid to satan, then our freedom was handed to us by satan....if it was paid to God, then was it God who held us captive?

Hmmm
I have likely read every word written by Kenyon and Hagin... numerous times.
I have heard most of Hagin's tapes.

I have never heard the concept of anything owed or paid to satan.

Jesus crushed satan... there were no business deals going on there.

 

[Hisgirl]

I'm glad to hear this. Thank you for the clarification.


Be Blessed
Hisgirl

 

[SavedByGrace3]

This is the results of a Google search:

Your search - "ransom was paid to satan" COPELAND HAGIN KENYON - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.
- Try fewer keywords.

 

[God_follower]

ransom paid to satan...

Almost could work with that

When Adam sinned the rules were broken and the rules were set up by God, but Satan carries them out so... its more a ransom that the rules alow for then ransom to any one being, maybe God, cuz He made the rules, but we have choice so its just the way things are then.

 

[Mikecpking]

Here is a well respected UK report on the WOF teachings with Scriptures. On balance, the WOF movement in my view goes against the Gospel of peace and God's take on social injustice not to mention the nature of jesus and what happened after the crucifixion.

For a closer look at Reachout trusts articles

WOF movement

http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/deception/wofaith2.htm

The Jesus of Kenneth Copeland

http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/deception/copejesus.htm

 

[Hisgirl]

God_follower... Since I'm the one who brought up the ransom theory...I wanted to offer to you some research to refute any idea of a ransom being paid to anyone other than God Almighty. For your consideration....

Throughout the Bible we see that sin is an offense against God and therefore the sacrifice for sins be paid to God...and to God only. From Abel on, we see these sacrifices on the altar offered to God and not to satan.

THE FIRST SACRIFICE - AN OFFERING TO GOD


Abel's offering to God
Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering Gen. 4:4

Abraham's offering to God

And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together.
But the Angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!”
So he said, “Here I am.”
12 And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” Gen. 22:8, 11-12

THE INSTITUTION OF THE PASSOVER - AN OFFERING TO GOD
(Exodus 12:1-30)

And it shall be, when your children say to you, ‘What do you mean by this service?’ 27 that you shall say, ‘It is the Passover sacrifice of the LORD, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt when He struck the Egyptians and delivered our households.’” So the people bowed their heads and worshiped. Exodus 12:26-27


​

THE OLD TESTAMENT SACRIFICES - AN OFFERING TO GOD

Now the LORD called to Moses, and spoke to him from the tabernacle of meeting, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When any one of you brings an offering to the LORD, you shall bring your offering of the livestock—of the herd and of the flock. Lev. 1:1-2
​

​

THE SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST - AN OFFERING TO GOD

Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
Ephesians 5:1-2

Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 1 Corin. 5:7

And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God Hebrews 10:11-12



These are clear scriptural examples that show sacrifices for sin are offered to God...from the shadowing of the Old Testament through the sin offering of the life of Jesus Christ. Nowhere do we see ANY sacrifice being made to satan....only God.

Be Mightily Blessed Today,
Hisgirl


​

 

[SavedByGrace3]

#12 and #13

games-people-play

Here is a well respected UK report on the WOF teachings with Scriptures. On balance, the WOF movement in my view goes against the Gospel of peace and God's take on social injustice not to mention the nature of jesus and what happened after the crucifixion.

For a closer look at Reachout trusts articles

WOF movement

http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/deception/wofaith2.htm

The Jesus of Kenneth Copeland

http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/deception/copejesus.htm

 

[jiminpa]

So I will word it more specifically, because I want to know. What scripture says that God, can't take authority over demons? What scripture says that God's authority diminished when He included us in it, (in His name)? It says in Hebrews that Jesus, God in the flesh, is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Jesus said that He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Paul, wrote that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for doctrine. There is no Christian scripture that negates the Old Testament, and WoF teachers often stand on it when it's convienient for them. In the first two chapters of Job, Satan could do nothing to God's servant, Job, that God didn't permit.

The scriptures you listed speak clearly that Jesus gave us authority, but they in no way take it out of God's hands. The fact that it is in Jesus's name, demonstrates that if Jesus doesn't have the authority either do we.

Please show the scriptures that say that God can't go against our will, while we're at it.

 

[Mikecpking]

#12 and #13

games-people-play

Is that the best you can do?
How about looking at the subject matter rather than trying to marry up the criticism against your list! This is after all a debate forum rather than 'lets try and categorize this guy who is attacking my view!'

So please tell me, did you read the contents of the links? What is your opinion of each of the points made?

 

[victoryword]

#12 and #13

games-people-play

Hey Dids

Isn't that the same guy who asked us to get back on topic and discuss Hagin's teachings? Funny how the discussion turns into pasting links to heresy hunter web sites.

These guys NEVER quit do they. We refute their false misinformation and the only thing they do is paste junk from other web sites or links to them. It only proves to me that they cannot scripturally refute the WoF teachings but for some odd reason still feel compelled to whine about them.

Pathetic, but also funny

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I got to the word "visualization" and realized the author has no idea what he is talking about...

plus he spelled it wrong.

Is that the best you can do?
How about looking at the subject matter rather than trying to marry up the criticism against your list! This is after all a debate forum rather than 'lets try and categorize this guy who is attacking my view!'

So please tell me, did you read the contents of the links? What is your opinion of each of the points made?

 

[Svt4Him]

So again, there was once a link that showed how Kenneth was taken out of context, posted all over the place, discredited by HH's, when what he originally said made sense when put in context. Anyone know what I'm talking about? I found it an amazing tool, just lost it somewhere.