False Converts

[FreeGrace2]

Tough question brother. In reading James 2 I would have to honestly say no - but what level of growth a believer exhibits is subjective IMHO. In other words some are going to exhibit more spiritual upward mobility than others. The bottom line for me - is there has to be growth or the person may very well not be saved. It's why many in church still need to be evangelized - as Johnny Mac likes to say...

Could I ask you a question regarding JM's saying?

For those who attend evangelical churches but show no growth at all, what is the approach of evangelizing them?

From what I've heard from JM, all emphasis is on works to "prove salvation". Yet, if these people truly aren't saved, what do YOU tell them?

What I'm wondering is this: if they honestly have believed in Jesus Christ for eternal life, what else is there to do, if they aren't saved?

Or, do you just discount what they say about what they have believed?

 

[Hammster]

I was clear, but I'll repeat myself. There are those who think they are Christians or saved, but do not have saving faith. There are also those who lie and claim to be a Christian, for some personal gain in lying.

Then there are those who have placed their full faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone for eternal life. These have saving faith and are saved.

Why kind of faith is it if it's not saving faith?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why kind of faith is it if it's not saving faith?

Your question has no relevance to my comments. Why did you ask it?

 

[Hammster]

Your question has no relevance to my comments. Why did you ask it?

Because you said, "There are those who think they are Christians or saved, but do not have saving faith. "

So what kind of faith is it?

 

[rockytopva]

All you need to do to become a Christian is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: - John 1:12

He that believeth on him is not condemned: - John 3:18

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. - John 20:31

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. - Acts 10:43

Complicating salvation is something that Europeans have been doing for centuries.

 

[Hammster]

All you need to do to become a Christian is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: - John 1:12

He that believeth on him is not condemned: - John 3:18

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. - John 20:31

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. - Acts 10:43

Complicating salvation is something that Europeans have been doing for centuries.

I'd rather, if you are not going to address the subject, that you just not post. Thanks.

 

[AndOne]

Could I ask you a question regarding JM's saying?

For those who attend evangelical churches but show no growth at all, what is the approach of evangelizing them?

From what I've heard from JM, all emphasis is on works to "prove salvation". Yet, if these people truly aren't saved, what do YOU tell them?

What I'm wondering is this: if they honestly have believed in Jesus Christ for eternal life, what else is there to do, if they aren't saved?

Or, do you just discount what they say about what they have believed?

It's a good question and I appreciate it. Seeing as I am not a pastor I'm not sure how to answer. That is the honest truth. I will tell you how I handle it on a personal level. Anyone who tells me they are a Christian or saved - I assume they are and give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't look for good works nor do I get critical of anyone who for lack of a better term "slips up." Nobody is perfect - not even Christians, as I'm sure you would agree.

Given our theological debate as of late this may come as a surprise to you. In all honesty I don't see the James passage as necessarily evangelical. I look at it as something we Christians should apply to ourselves - to gauge our faith. If I look at my own life and don't see growth - it tells me there is a problem - likely a serious one.

 

[rockytopva]

I'd rather, if you are not going to address the subject, that you just not post. Thanks.

This is just not a friendly place for Armenians.

 

[AndOne]

This is just not a friendly place for Armenians.

I think it's just a brutal place all around - no matter your theological persuasion.

 

[rockytopva]

I think it's just a brutal place all around - no matter your theological persuasion.

Planet earth is a brutal place. European history is no cake walk. Every one of us would be considered heretics (a false convert) worthy for burning in some European country at some time in history.This all stems, imho, from the spirit of Jezebel which is to kill, dominate, and control. Even as an Arminian, I confess, that she can lift her headup even in the best Arminian denominations.

I think the beginnings of such spirits is simple ego, which grows into terrible monsters, hating all those who get in her way.

 

[Legionwrex]

Clearly there are. But even judging my own Spiritual Growth and regeneration gives me nothing but fear, anxiety, and doubt, so I'd rather not judge others when I am in no position to.

 

[Hammster]

This is just not a friendly place for Armenians.

That's irrelevant. Please stick to the topic.

 

[Hammster]

Clearly there are. But even judging my own Spiritual Growth and regeneration gives me nothing but fear, anxiety, and doubt, so I'd rather not judge others when I am in no position to.

This isn't a thread about being judgmental.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Because you said, "There are those who think they are Christians or saved, but do not have saving faith. "

So what kind of faith is it?

If their faith is not in Jesus Christ for eternal life, it isn't saving faith. You may call it whatever you'd like to call it.

 

[Hammster]

If their faith is not in Jesus Christ for eternal life, it isn't saving faith. You may call it whatever you'd like to call it.

Okay. I'll call it a dead faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It's a good question and I appreciate it. Seeing as I am not a pastor I'm not sure how to answer. That is the honest truth.

Thank you for your honesty.

I will tell you how I handle it on a personal level. Anyone who tells me they are a Christian or saved - I assume they are and give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't look for good works nor do I get critical of anyone who for lack of a better term "slips up." Nobody is perfect - not even Christians, as I'm sure you would agree.

I agree!

Given our theological debate as of late this may come as a surprise to you. In all honesty I don't see the James passage as necessarily evangelical. I look at it as something we Christians should apply to ourselves - to gauge our faith. If I look at my own life and don't see growth - it tells me there is a problem - likely a serious one.

Not surprised; glad! I don't think James 2 is evangelical at all. And I fully agree with your view about it being about growth; demonstrating our faith to those around us so they'll see our faith.

And yes, if there is no growth, there is a serious problem.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is just not a friendly place for Armenians.

You're welcome to post here any time you want to. Don't mind those who have a different POV.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Okay. I'll call it a dead faith.

Okay. When did the faith die?

 

[Hammster]

You're welcome to post here any time you want to. Don't mind those who have a different POV.

He's not welcome to post off topic.

 

[Hammster]

Okay. When did the faith die?

Who said it died?