Fake News (why russia is not the only proof of it existing)

EpiscipalMe · Jul 22, 2017

SolomonVII said:
If low ball entertainment is what you desire in politics, I am sure that there will be enough similar fake news generated this time to keep you amused for years to come.

I said exactly the opposite of that, actually.

Ken Starr got distracted by soiled dresses. I hope that Bob Mueller will stick to the substantive issues.

SolomonVII · Jul 22, 2017

EpiscipalMe said:
I said exactly the opposite of that, actually.

Ken Starr got distracted by soiled dresses. I hope that Bob Mueller will stick to the substantive issues.

Oh.
Well to stick to substantive issues, there would have to be some evidence of substantive issues in the first place. With Watergate, there was full evidence of a crime being committed. The white collar crime of White water is a lot harder to understand, but the corruption investigated was clear enough.
Nobody has any inkling of what kind of crime was committed in this latest investigation.
That is what led me to believe that anyone cheering on the special investigator is only interested in the entertainment aspect.
That is all that the story has been about to date, and with you wanting the story to meander into all sorts of other directions, it was an easy assumption top make that that was the kind of thing that you are interested in.

EpiscipalMe · Jul 22, 2017

SolomonVII said:
Oh.
Well to stick to substantive issues, there would have to be some evidence of substantive issues in the first place. With Watergate, there was full evidence of a crime being committed. The white collar crime of White water is a lot harder to understand, but the corruption investigated was clear enough.
Nobody has any inkling of what kind of crime was committed in this latest investigation.
That is what led me to believe that anyone cheering on the special investigator is only interested in the entertainment aspect.
That is all that the story has been about to date, and with you wanting the story to meander into all sorts of other directions, it was an easy assumption top make that that was the kind of thing that you are interested in.

1) Investigations also occur to determine if a crime was committed. That is what this investigation is for.

2) I didn't say I wanted to investigation to meander in any salacious way.

SolomonVII · Jul 22, 2017

EpiscipalMe said:
1) Investigations also occur to determine if a crime was committed. That is what this investigation is for.

2) I didn't say I wanted to investigation to meander in any salacious way.

You led me to believe that you would be happy for the investigation to meander from its orignal intent. That is what led me to the understanding that I came to.

EpiscipalMe · Jul 23, 2017

SolomonVII said:
You led me to believe that you would be happy for the investigation to meander from its orignal intent. That is what led me to the understanding that I came to.

I said it could meander based on the mandate.

However, looking back over our posts, I can see why you made the conclusion you did.

createdtoworship · Jul 26, 2017

Here's One Thing You Won't See Cable News Networks Covering That They Really Should

createdtoworship · Jul 26, 2017

MoonlessNight · Jul 27, 2017

It's long been noted that if you ever see the media report on something that you have expertise in, you will always see that the reporting is poor to the extent that it shows almost no understanding of the issue at all.

If you are religious, you will notice the media screwing up the basic tenets of your religion. If you are scientist, you will notice the media completely misrepresenting the state of affairs in your area of research, and often even the basics of the scientific method itself. If you live in a swing state, you will notice that when the media visits your town every 4 years they can't pronounce any of the local place names correctly and that their description of your community in no way resembles anything that you see in your day to day life. And so on. If you have prior knowledge of what is being reported on, chances are very good that you'll notice that the reporting is inaccurate.

This isn't exactly a new insight. Michael Crichton discussed this when he coined the "Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect" in 2002 (fifteen years ago), but the idea had shown up in media criticism throughout the 90's. Thus everyone who has been paying attention to the media since that point should be aware that they are often inaccurate.

All that has happened recently is that their despair over Hillary's loss has caused them to drop all pretenses about what they are doing, so that the situation has become all but impossible to ignore. (Not that the pretenses were that strong before the election; for instance remember the reporting of the Gabby Giffords shooting or the Kermitt Gosnell case?)

createdtoworship · Jul 27, 2017

MoonlessNight said:
It's long been noted that if you ever see the media report on something that you have expertise in, you will always see that the reporting is poor to the extent that it shows almost no understanding of the issue at all.

If you are religious, you will notice the media screwing up the basic tenets of your religion. If you are scientist, you will notice the media completely misrepresenting the state of affairs in your area of research, and often even the basics of the scientific method itself. If you live in a swing state, you will notice that when the media visits your town every 4 years they can't pronounce any of the local place names correctly and that their description of your community in no way resembles anything that you see in your day to day life. And so on. If you have prior knowledge of what is being reported on, chances are very good that you'll notice that the reporting is inaccurate.

This isn't exactly a new insight. Michael Crichton discussed this when he coined the "Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect" in 2002 (fifteen years ago), but the idea had shown up in media criticism throughout the 90's. Thus everyone who has been paying attention to the media since that point should be aware that they are often inaccurate.

All that has happened recently is that their despair over Hillary's loss has caused them to drop all pretenses about what they are doing, so that the situation has become all but impossible to ignore. (Not that the pretenses were that strong before the election; for instance remember the reporting of the Gabby Giffords shooting or the Kermitt Gosnell case?)

Thanks for the comment, informative!

Biblicist · Jul 27, 2017

I'm not sure if I should post the following material, but I seem to have come across some training material that the DNC and the various US Security Agencies have been using to train their employees regarding Russian interference in US affairs.

Click in the Spoiler

createdtoworship · Jul 28, 2017

GQ news is the latest in fake news. They say sean hannity ordered a 42,000 dollar lobster, a 70 year old lobster flown in from maine. more on it here:

GQ used a Trump hotel waiter as its single source to smear Sean Hannity

rebutted here:
Terrence Williams on Twitter

Biblicist · Jul 28, 2017

gradyll said:
GQ news is the latest in fake news. They say sean hannity ordered a 42,000 dollar lobster, a 70 year old lobster flown in from maine. more on it here:

GQ used a Trump hotel waiter as its single source to smear Sean Hannity

rebutted here:
Terrence Williams on Twitter

Oh well, I guess that when the left-wing and Neoconservatives are unable to find a good story that Fake News is better than no news and particularly better than the often unpalatable truth.

Yonny Costopoulis · Jul 29, 2017

Go Braves said:
Well we know fake news exists. Trump was just busted for being on the cover of fake news.

Very good! Trump is very very funny man. Makes world laugh.

MoonlessNight · Jul 29, 2017

To illustrate what I was saying earlier, let's take a look at an important topic which doesn't have anything to do with the Russian collusion narrative: religion.

From various trusted sources we have a multitude of basic errors when it comes to religion, such as:

The AP: Jesus ascended to heaven directly from His tomb.
The Boston Globe (later picked up by CNN): Nazareth, not Bethlehem, is the birthplace of Jesus.
NPR: Catholics are the only Christian denomination to believe in the intercession of saints.
The Times of London: Claims that the Catholic Church is allowing confessions to be done over the internet.
The New York Post: Jesus was a "God-made man"
Dallas Morning News: Peter wrote the first letter to Timothy (and this is the corrected version, the original just discussed the "Book of Timothy.")
The New York Times: Jesus is the author of Corinthians.
The New York Times: The torah includes such figures as Esther, Saul and David.
The New York Times: Christians revere the Church of the Holy Sepulcher because they believe that Jesus is buried there.
The New York Times: Jesus is buried in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher (this made this error on multiple occasions).
The New York Times: Easter is when Christians celebrate Jesus's "resurrection into heaven.
The New York Times: Pope John Paul II was "the first non-Catholic pope."

CatholicCrusader · Jul 29, 2017

I found this meme on Twitter. It is the perfect explanation of Fake News in the context of what Trump means by Fake News:

MoonlessNight · Jul 29, 2017

Now I realize that some people may read that list and say that I am being overly nitpicky. After all, most of the errors consisted in the wrong use of a single word, and many of them were eventually corrected.

But consider this: would you respect a sports writer who habitually made absurd errors, like saying that the Blue Jays were on track to win the prestigious Stanley Cup, that Michael Jordan was one of the greatest baseball players of all time, that the officials handed down a Yellow Card against the Packers or that a Blackhawks game had an intense first quarter? If this was common of sports writers, you'd think that they didn't know much about sports, and certainly not enough to be writing about them. The same thing is true, as far as I can see, with the types of errors that reporters regularly make about religion.

And you can go to other areas and find reporting just as bad: science reporting is infamous for how big of gaffes reporters will put out for instance. In fact, you'll usually find that when you know something about an area, the reporting always contains extremely basic errors which should be obvious to anyone with a qualified background in the topic. The only area where you might have enough information to tell if they are making mistakes and where you might actually see good reporting actually is in sports. Everyone else you'll either notice errors or, like in politics, you won't have enough independent information to say for sure if their reporting is good or bad.

But if their reporting is bad in most areas that you know something about, chances are good that it's also bad in areas that you don't know anything about.

Go Braves · Jul 30, 2017

Yonny Costopoulis said:
Very good! Trump is very very funny man. Makes world laugh.

Yes, he does make the world laugh, but I'm tired of our country being seen as a joke because of him.

createdtoworship · Jul 31, 2017

MoonlessNight said:
To illustrate what I was saying earlier, let's take a look at an important topic which doesn't have anything to do with the Russian collusion narrative: religion.

From various trusted sources we have a multitude of basic errors when it comes to religion, such as:

The AP: Jesus ascended to heaven directly from His tomb.

The Boston Globe (later picked up by CNN): Nazareth, not Bethlehem, is the birthplace of Jesus.

NPR: Catholics are the only Christian denomination to believe in the intercession of saints.

The Times of London: Claims that the Catholic Church is allowing confessions to be done over the internet.

The New York Post: Jesus was a "God-made man"

Dallas Morning News: Peter wrote the first letter to Timothy (and this is the corrected version, the original just discussed the "Book of Timothy.")

The New York Times: Jesus is the author of Corinthians.

The New York Times: The torah includes such figures as Esther, Saul and David.

The New York Times: Christians revere the Church of the Holy Sepulcher because they believe that Jesus is buried there.

The New York Times: Jesus is buried in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher (this made this error on multiple occasions).

The New York Times: Easter is when Christians celebrate Jesus's "resurrection into heaven.

The New York Times: Pope John Paul II was "the first non-Catholic pope."

I never get my religious views from the tabloids. Never.

createdtoworship · Jul 31, 2017

CatholicCrusader said:
I found this meme on Twitter. It is the perfect explanation of Fake News in the context of what Trump means by Fake News:

biblically a lie is when you know that the implications of what you are saying are false, or you know people will interpret what you are saying as truth when it's a lie. So fake news is basically lying according to the Bible.

MoonlessNight · Jul 31, 2017

gradyll said:
I never get my religious views from the tabloids. Never.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you that the New York Times is a tabloid, but I don't think that it's a majority opinion.

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