Faith without works?

[ChrisManuel]

Without faith, it's impossible to please God. You must first believe that He is and that He rewards those who diligently seek Him. The real question is motivation. If we are witnessing in order to get God's attention or to somehow get his approval then it's wrong. I should witness out of an established relationship. I know he loves me! Not, I hope he loves because look what I am doing for him. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith must come first then acts of service. I am not a servant in his house, I am a son born into his family. I can share his love because I can sit at his table. 1st John 1 : 7 I can have fellowship with his family and be cleansed from all sin. Whether I go to kingdom hall or not. I chose by faith to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ who died and rose again, and who paid the ultimate price for my sins with his own blood.

freedom project

 

[Blackmarch]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From here [/FONT]679



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Hi, I read the above misunderstanding from the 'Trinity = God' thread and wanted to explain the bible's position clearly.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif](James[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2:17)[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]JW's know that the blood of Jesus is what saves and without it we have no hope. We know that we must have faith to be able to fully accept that sacrifice, yet, the expression of that faith is good works, without which you have no real faith anyway.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Thoughts?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Richard...[/FONT]

can't have one without the other else it is empty and not sincere.

 

[Rescued One]

Hi, I read the above misunderstanding from the 'Trinity = God' thread and wanted to explain the bible's position clearly

James 2:17 Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.

JW's know that the blood of Jesus is what saves and without it we have no hope. We know that we must have faith to be able to fully accept that sacrifice, yet, the expression of that faith is good works, without which you have no real faith anyway.


Thoughts?

Richard...

Yes, genuine faith produces good works. Genuine faith is a gift from God.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Without faith, it's impossible to please God. You must first believe that He is and that He rewards those who diligently seek Him. The real question is motivation. If we are witnessing in order to get God's attention or to somehow get his approval then it's wrong. I should witness out of an established relationship. I know he loves me! Not, I hope he loves because look what I am doing for him. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith must come first then acts of service. I am not a servant in his house, I am a son born into his family. I can share his love because I can sit at his table. 1st John 1 : 7 I can have fellowship with his family and be cleansed from all sin. Whether I go to kingdom hall or not. I chose by faith to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ who died and rose again, and who paid the ultimate price for my sins with his own blood.

freedom project

While it is true, faith cometh by hearing.
The Holy Spirit says, "a seeing eye and a hearing ear, even the Lord has done this."


So I'm just sayin', "keep in mind that your faith is also a gift from God."

 

[ChrisManuel]

While it is true, faith cometh by hearing.
The Holy Spirit says, "a seeing eye and a hearing ear, even the Lord has done this."

So I'm just sayin', "keep in mind that your faith is also a gift from God."

But of course, without faith it is impossible to please him! It is not of works lest any man should boast The Holy Spirit brings conviction before a person responds to the message of the Gospel. When the message begins to ring true in the heart, then is the time to respond to gift of repentance which leads to faith. We must first believe that He is and that He is a rewarder! God is always good!

freedom project

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

But of course, without faith it is impossible to please him! It is not of works lest any man should boast The Holy Spirit brings conviction before a person responds to the message of the Gospel. When the message begins to ring true in the heart, then is the time to respond to gift of repentance which leads to faith. We must first believe that He is and that He is a rewarder! God is always good!

freedom project

There is Father, then Son, then Holy Spirit.
Where is God's glory if the Holy Spirit brings conviction before responding?
He created our hearing ears before he sent the Holy Spirit.
Peter in acts 3 said, "repent and be baptised and you will receive the Holy Spirit."
Then in acts 10, The centurion was visited by an angel(not the holy spirit)
and by faith ,sent for Peter. Then while Peter was speaking, the holy spirit fell on them, and they spoke with tongues and magnified God.When Peter saw it, then they were baptised.
So then the gospel cannot "ring true" unless God gives you an ear that can hear truth.
You must have faith to repent and you must have faith to be baptised.
You must have faith before you can receive the Holy Spirit.
The measure of faith that each man has, is a gift from God.

 

[ThankGod]

I think if you don't have faith, then you are less likely to want to help people. If you have the understanding that God is God, and that He's perfect and doesn't make mistakes , then doing good works is just... normal. It's what you're supposed to do-- help those who need it.

 

[ChrisManuel]

Paul was kicking against the pricks or rejecting the conviction of the holy spirit. Something is happening in a sinners heart before he repents

freedom project

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Paul was kicking against the pricks or rejecting the conviction of the holy spirit. Something is happening in a sinners heart before he repents

freedom project

Paul was exceedingly zealous of the traditions of his fathers.He knew the scriptures inside and out. If he had the Holy Spirit he would have understood them. He thought he was doing right, and therefore did not even know he was kicking against the pricks.
He was blinded by "Christ" who talked to him in the way.
Ananias laid hands on him, and he received his sight and was then filled with the Holy Spirit.Then he arose and was baptized.
After he received the Holy Spirit he began preaching Christ.
The something that happens is God giving a man his measure of faith, or grace if you will, when it pleases Him.

 

[ChrisManuel]

If God does this whole salvation thing without any response needed from me, I would still be claiming I couldn't be saved because I wasn't one of the elect.

freedom project

 

[Rescued One]

No one who is unsaved (minus the new birth or being quickened) understands or seeks God. Without the Spirit of Christ you can't understand spiritual things.

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Romans 3:11

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 8:7-9

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus
Ephesians 2:1-7

ALL of the glory belongs to God.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

If God does this whole salvation thing without any response needed from me, I would still be claiming I couldn't be saved because I wasn't one of the elect.

freedom project

All who are saved are the elect.
Christ said, "all who the Father gives to me, will come to me." John chap 6 verse 37
When did God come to you and ask if He could give you to Christ?

 

[ChrisManuel]

Is it a work to say yes to the Holy Spirit and receive by faith the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross for my sins. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Repentance and faith are both gifts we could not earn. But there must be a turning of the heart to say yes!

freedom project

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

All who are saved are the elect.
Christ said, "all who the Father gives to me, will come to me." John chap 6 verse 37
When did God come to you and ask if He could give you to Christ?

Answer the first question, please.
Also, what is it you think the Holy Spirit asked you?

 

[Rescued One]

Is it a work to say yes to the Holy Spirit and receive by faith the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross for my sins. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Repentance and faith are both gifts we could not earn. But there must be a turning of the heart to say yes!

freedom project

But the heart says, "Yes" only because God gave the person a new heart, a new birth, a new life, faith.


But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1 Corinthians 15:10


Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2 Corinthians 3:5

God gets ALL the glory!

 

[ChrisManuel]

Answer the first question, please.
Also, what is it you think the Holy Spirit asked you?

We are saved by the foolishness of preaching. Romans 10:12-17 everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. I needed encouragement to call on his name. I needed to hear the true message of the Gospel that God desires all men to be saved. This message is not for a certain few. When we stand before God on judgment day, we will be judged by our relationship to Jesus Christ our attorney. God is offering all men the gift of life but He knows what choice you will make. When you respond to the message of the Gospel you must give him all authority in your life. We are nothing, we can do nothing without the Holy Spirit enabling us to believe the message of hope. This is the new birth. From that day forward its about obeying his leading. Learning to surrender our will to do his will.

freedom project

 

[interpreter]

Faith without works is dead. In the final judgment we are all judged according to our works.

 

[ChrisManuel]

Faith without works is dead. In the final judgment we are all judged according to our works.

Revelation chapter 12 says we will overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony and we must love not our lives even unto death. You may call it works but it's going to cost you everything.

freedom project

 

[Rescued One]

Faith without works is dead. In the final judgment we are all judged according to our works.

We are judged on whether our works are good or bad.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2 Corinthians 5:10


With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Ephesians 6:7

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Colossians 3:23

Only what's done for Christ will survive the Refiner's fire.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."
Matthew 7:16-18

The unsaved person has not been grafted in.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 1:3

All believers will receive all spiritual blessings!

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

We are saved by the foolishness of preaching. Romans 10:12-17 everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. I needed encouragement to call on his name. I needed to hear the true message of the Gospel that God desires all men to be saved. This message is not for a certain few. When we stand before God on judgment day, we will be judged by our relationship to Jesus Christ our attorney. God is offering all men the gift of life but He knows what choice you will make. When you respond to the message of the Gospel you must give him all authority in your life. We are nothing, we can do nothing without the Holy Spirit enabling us to believe the message of hope. This is the new birth. From that day forward its about obeying his leading. Learning to surrender our will to do his will.

freedom project

Our works are not our own.
Icluding confessing, God raised Christ from the dead.
God hardens whom he will and has mercy on whom he will.
We have nothing we did not receive, inluding our belief.
Now after that we have believed, Then He gives us gifts of the spirit.
But they are for comfort and strengthening of ourselves and the brethren.
If you are saying you are saved because YOU only believed after you recieved the gift of tongues, you are under the false illusion that God coaxed you into believing in him. Since Christ came the Holy Spirit is given to nobody until after they have heard and believed.
If as you say, you must give up everything, why hold onto the idea that once you heard the preaching, you then saved yourself by believing? Or that God gave you the Holy Spirit to help you make up your mind?
So far you have only sidestepped the truth that the Holy Spirit is sending to you through the grace that is in me.