Faith Alone?

[sbbqb7n16]

I think that the whole OSAS argument stems from way too many who try and make Jesus Christ Savior, but not Lord. You can't have one without the other... and if you have Jesus as Lord, I don't see why you would ever want to turn back. Now if you just try and have Him as Savior but never Lord, I see where your problem is... you have never been saved in the first place. Make Him Lord!

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by Apologist
So what does this have to do with eternal security?
You have just answered your own question.

Going forward at an alter call, praying a prayer, etc, does not necessarily mean you had a true salvation experience. A saved person is a new creation and the fruits of that new creation will manifest themselves if indeed there was a true repentance.

You cannot lose what you never had in the first place.

Eternal security teaches that once true salvation is attained it cannot be lost.

 

And that's the problem I have with this. Who can know for sure what looks like a duck and walks like a duck is not a duck?

What are the ear marks of a Christian anyway?

 

[linda4jesus]

Originally posted by Apologist
So what does this have to do with eternal security?
You have just answered your own question.

Going forward at an alter call, praying a prayer, etc, does not necessarily mean you had a true salvation experience. A saved person is a new creation and the fruits of that new creation will manifest themselves if indeed there was a true repentance.

You cannot lose what you never had in the first place.

Eternal security teaches that once true salvation is attained it cannot be lost.

Hi Apologist,

You must have me confused with someone else, I didn't ask a question about eternal security. I was responding to chelcb's question regarding OSAS.

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by linda4jesus
Hi Apologist,

You must have me confused with someone else, I didn't ask a question about eternal security. I was responding to chelcb's question regarding OSAS.

Hi Linda.

Eternal Security and OSAS are the same thing.

Another term that is also used is called, "The perseverance of the Saints."

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by chelcb
 

And that's the problem I have with this. Who can know for sure what looks like a duck and walks like a duck is not a duck?

There is no way for us as believers to know who is truely saved and who is not. We can only go by what we see and hear from those proclaiming faith in Christ. God alone knows the heart, but we can only see the outside.

What are the ear marks of a Christian anyway?

A Christian is one who has repented of their sin, accepted Christ as Savior and Lord and is trusting in Him alone for salvation based entirely on what He did for us on the cross.

God Bless

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

There is no way for us as believers to know who is truely saved and who is not.

According to the Bible we can know it.

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by s0uljah
According to the Bible we can know it.

I didn't say we ourselves could not be sure of salvation, I said we can't be sure of other's who claim they are saved.

God Bless

 

[linda4jesus]

Originally posted by Apologist
Hi Linda.

Eternal Security and OSAS are the same thing.

Another term that is also used is called, "The perseverance of the Saints."

I understand that eternal security is the same as OSAS what I meant to say (I guess it didn't come across correctly before) was "I never asked a question regarding eternal security. I was simply replying to chelcb's post."

 

[Outspoken]

question..does a tree bear fruit all year round?

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by linda4jesus
I understand that eternal security is the same as OSAS what I meant to say (I guess it didn't come across correctly before) was "I never asked a question regarding eternal security. I was simply replying to chelcb's post."

Hi Linda.

I didn't say you asked a question about eternal security, but you did make the following statement which I was addressing:

I don't believe that once saved always saved. Lets say you go to church one Sunday and at the end of the sermon the Pastor has an altar call. You go forward and give your life to the Lord, walk out of the church....never read the Word, never pray and live your life as before. Then the seed was thrown on that person but never took root. IMHO that person is not saved.

I realize you were answering chelcb's question but since you made the statement that you didn't believe in OSAS, I was responding to that.
I hope this clears it all up

God Bless

 

[geocajun]

Originally posted by s0uljah
According to the Bible we can know it.

oh? I am suprised to hear you say that s0uljah - do you absolutly know you if you are saved?

 

[jjoel]

if you got a new car.... say... a FERRARI! would u just let it sit in your driveway or would you drive it?

if you're a christian (truly a christian) would u just sin on purpose? or would you try to serve the lord?

yes we will know christians by their fruits.. will their fruits save them? noooooo

 

[Outspoken]

again..question..does a tree bear fruit year round?

 

[Jephunneh]

Originally posted by chelcb
Okay, show me where in the bible it saves Once we are saved, were always saved?

Psalm 37
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

You see, there is a difference between falling IN Christ and falling OUT of Christ, just as there is a difference between falling down IN an airplane and falling OUT OF an airplane! Spiritually, we are seated in Heavenly places IN CHRIST, according to Ephesians 2:6, and that's where we'll stay - FOREVER

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by chelcb
Okay, show me where in the bible it saves Once we are saved, were always saved?

Hi chelcb.

I think John 10:27-29 is one of the strongest verses supporting eternal security. Jesus speaking to the Jews says:

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand."

God Bless

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Apologist-

Can you snatch yourself away? No. This verse says nothing about our own decision to leave. It simply says that nobody may steal you.

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by Apologist
Hi chelcb.

I think John 10:27-29 is one of the strongest verses supporting eternal security. Jesus speaking to the Jews says:

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand."

God Bless

 

This can in reference to a number of things, look at what a sheep is and what a shepherd is.

A sheep wanders and wanders away but the shepherd always brings them back. The shepherd at one point will break the legs of a sheep in order to keep him from straying, and he will carry the sheep around and nurse him until his legs heal and then the sheep learns not to run away but not because he got his legs broke, but because he loves the shepherd and he has come to know how the shepherd loves him and he follows the shepherd out of love, not fear. But the sheep in no way does not have to free will to run away if he wants.

I think Jesus was comparing himself to a real life shepherd in this passage.

I heard this explained on EWTN, so no, I didn't make it up and I am not crazy.

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Apologist-

Can you snatch yourself away? No. This verse says nothing about our own decision to leave. It simply says that nobody may steal you.

Read it again:

"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand."

Jesus said "no one" and that means anyone including ourselves.

I believe Paul had the sam thought in mind in Romans 8:38-39:

"For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

God Bless

 

[Apologist]

Originally posted by chelcb
 

This can in reference to a number of things, look at what a sheep is and what a shepherd is.

A sheep wanders and wanders away but the shepherd always brings them back. The shepherd at one point will break the legs of a sheep in order to keep him from straying, and he will carry the sheep around and nurse him until his legs heal and then the sheep learns not to run away but not because he got his legs broke, but because he loves the shepherd and he has come to know how the shepherd loves him and he follows the shepherd out of love, not fear. But the sheep in no way does not have to free will to run away if he wants.

I think Jesus was comparing himself to a real life shepherd in this passage.

I heard this explained on EWTN, so no, I didn't make it up and I am not crazy.

chelcb,

The point of the statement Jesus made was not Him being a shepherd, the point was that no one can snatch His sheep away.

God Bless

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Apologist I really like your Biblically based posts. Very logical and refreshing Just thought I'd say that. Have a great day!