Fabricating Data in Climate Science - The Hijack

[RickG]

My wife and I both work for NOAA. While our line office - National Ocean Service - has been mostly free from political manipulation; the guys next door at the National Weather Service have not. They have had more than their share of manipulation from the last 3 administrations. Clinton and Obama wanted to over-state the case for global warming and Bush jr wanted to under-state it. We have yet to see what Trump will do, but it may be back to the Bush years.

Both are equally wrong and dangerous IMO.

Are you suggesting data was manipulated or just political people wanted it manipulated?

 

[Dave-W]

Are you suggesting data was manipulated or just political people wanted it manipulated?

Primarily the latter; but some of the former probably happened as well.

 

[rjs330]

Primarily the latter; but some of the former probably happened as well.

Thank you but be prepared to have to prove your credentials and have evidence. The catastrophic folks refuse to believe the manipulation for political reasons.

 

[Loudmouth]

Thank you but be prepared to have to prove your credentials and have evidence. The catastrophic folks refuse to believe the manipulation for political reasons.

Is there a politician there at every spectrophotometer when people measure the absorbance spectrum of carbon dioxide?

 

[rjs330]

Dealing in falsehoods only demonstrates your lack of legitimacy.

Believing in the falsehoods proclaimed by the alarmists demonstrates your lack of seeing the truth. You are blinded by by your faith in those that manipulate the findings so they can make a claim. Your bias has blinded you to the truth.

 

[Loudmouth]

Believing in the falsehoods proclaimed by the alarmists demonstrates your lack of seeing the truth.

And where have I done that?

You are blinded by by your faith in those that manipulate the findings so they can make a claim.

You have failed to show that they are manipulated.

 

[Heissonear]

My wife and I both work for NOAA. While our line office - National Ocean Service - has been mostly free from political manipulation; the guys next door at the National Weather Service have not. They have had more than their share of manipulation from the last 3 administrations. Clinton and Obama wanted to over-state the case for global warming and Bush jr wanted to under-state it. We have yet to see what Trump will do, but it may be back to the Bush years.

Both are equally wrong and dangerous IMO.

Well said!

I think Trump will need to downplay AGW Alarmism in front of the gaming German Chancellor and others at the G20 coming up. What a fiasco of politically motivated to confront while in their stride!

And the money trough of grants most universities and associated scientific associations with conventions and publications to fill, another fiasco in stride to face! Defund the gaming.

I too wish things were not so polarized, manipulated, and out of order. Where we could use our knowledge, talents, and time to better those in true need than elites full of greed, ....... They only self serve.

 

[rjs330]

And where have I done that?



You have failed to show that they are manipulated.

I provided links. If you don't believe it then I can't do anything about that. There are scientists who refute the NOAA manipulations of data. NOAA manipulated things to make it look one way. Other scientists prove that's the case by their studies.

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/jour...0&spJobID=862987827&spReportId=ODYyOTg3ODI3S0

You believed the falsehood, unless you didn't believe NOAA. You and all the others continue to miss the point. The science is NOT settled. I just wish you would admit that. It would be a lot easier to talk with you about if you did. But the consistent stiff necked belief that the world is coming to an end soon if we don't do something drastic is just plain twisting and manipulation of the facts. Which are, we don't really know.

You continue to speak the language of fact, when the truth is there is fact and there is interpretation of fact and how it applies to what is happening. CO2 is not necessarily a planet killer. There are studies to show the CO2 is not killing this planet or heating it up.
Study: CO2 NOT causing climate change

The issue is those studies and scientists are demonized by others. But science is science and all science can be manipulated and cherry picked to make it seem one way or another. Data that supports catastrophic change is accepted. Data that states that it is not so gets rejected. Just like NOAA did. It's not just the fabrication that is concerning it is the interpretation of that data that is manipulated. The data may be correct. But the data is manipulated to mean something it really doesn't prove. And times the interpretative manipulation is what is disturbing. Such as the temperature increases and the call for immediate action because of what the increases are doing and how high they are going. It's a false conclusion. The temperature fluctuation is relatively meaningless and harmless in the long run as the earth has been cooling and warming a lot for a very long time. In fact for the last 200 years we have been very cold in the norther hemisphere. And just because we have warmed some does not equate to catastrophy. In fact the cold was far more catastrophic to us than the warming has been. It's a natural state that is not that bad.

Top Carbon Scientist Busts Average Global Temperature Meme

 

[Loudmouth]

I provided links. If you don't believe it then I can't do anything about that.

I do believe that you have given bare links with no discussion.

There are scientists who refute the NOAA manipulations of data. NOAA manipulated things to make it look one way. Other scientists prove that's the case by their studies.

What are these manipulations and why are they wrong?

All data sets in all of science are manipulated. They would be meaningless if they weren't manipulated.

The science is NOT settled. I just wish you would admit that.

Why would I admit something that is false? The science is settled. The Earth is warming, and the primary reason is our burning of fossil fuels.

But the consistent stiff necked belief that the world is coming to an end soon if we don't do something drastic is just plain twisting and manipulation of the facts.

I don't believe the world is coming to an end.

You continue to speak the language of fact, when the truth is there is fact and there is interpretation of fact and how it applies to what is happening. CO2 is not necessarily a planet killer. There are studies to show the CO2 is not killing this planet or heating it up.
Study: CO2 NOT causing climate change

Then discuss the study. Show how CO2 is not the main driver.

 

[rambot]

If Earth's temperature stops increasing and an important AGW meeting is coming for nations to pledge monetary funds by the billions, what will fleshly man do?

What a fiasco of corruption that was to impact everyone.

As the whistle-blower first reported to the media:

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Source:
World leaders duped by manipulated global warming data | Daily Mail Online

Nothin to say in response to the rebuttal?
That's a shame. I was CERTAIN this was going the final expose that brought climate change to its knees.

 

[Heissonear]

I provided links. If you don't believe it then I can't do anything about that. There are scientists who refute the NOAA manipulations of data. NOAA manipulated things to make it look one way. Other scientists prove that's the case by their studies.

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/jour...0&spJobID=862987827&spReportId=ODYyOTg3ODI3S0

You believed the falsehood, unless you didn't believe NOAA. You and all the others continue to miss the point. The science is NOT settled. I just wish you would admit that. It would be a lot easier to talk with you about if you did. But the consistent stiff necked belief that the world is coming to an end soon if we don't do something drastic is just plain twisting and manipulation of the facts. Which are, we don't really know.

You continue to speak the language of fact, when the truth is there is fact and there is interpretation of fact and how it applies to what is happening. CO2 is not necessarily a planet killer. There are studies to show the CO2 is not killing this planet or heating it up.
Study: CO2 NOT causing climate change

The issue is those studies and scientists are demonized by others. But science is science and all science can be manipulated and cherry picked to make it seem one way or another. Data that supports catastrophic change is accepted. Data that states that it is not so gets rejected. Just like NOAA did. It's not just the fabrication that is concerning it is the interpretation of that data that is manipulated. The data may be correct. But the data is manipulated to mean something it really doesn't prove. And times the interpretative manipulation is what is disturbing. Such as the temperature increases and the call for immediate action because of what the increases are doing and how high they are going. It's a false conclusion. The temperature fluctuation is relatively meaningless and harmless in the long run as the earth has been cooling and warming a lot for a very long time. In fact for the last 200 years we have been very cold in the norther hemisphere. And just because we have warmed some does not equate to catastrophy. In fact the cold was far more catastrophic to us than the warming has been. It's a natural state that is not that bad.

Top Carbon Scientist Busts Average Global Temperature Meme

So many things well said. Things that clarify, makes very clear.

But Loud's reply was like water on a ducks back. What a shame for him. Not the best position to be in. To read what you list and his reply. Voiding so many important clarifications.

Makes me really wonder.