• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

Ezekiel Prophesizes About the End Times

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Nov 27, 2021.

  1. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,165
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Ezekiel 7:2-13 The Lord says: The end is coming to the Land of Israel and devastation upon all four corners of the earth. The end of the age is upon you, I shall unleash My anger and call all to account for their conduct. I will repay you for all your detestable practices and will neither pity nor spare you. Disasters are coming, doom comes to you; dwellers in the Land, the Day is near, very soon a Day of panic will burst upon you.

    Ezekiel 7:14-16 The trumpet has sounded and all are ready, but no one goes to war for their turmoil has brought forth the wrath of the Lord.. Outside is the sword, in the cities will be plague and famine. If any escape to the hills, there I shall kill them, for their sins.

    Ezekiel 7:17-19 Every hand will hang limp and people will wet their pants with fright. They will put on sackcloth, shuddering with terror and covered with the shame of their iniquities. Their idols and treasure will not save them on the Day of the Lord’s fury, all their gold, silver and possessions will be just useless rubbish.

    Ezekiel 6:7-10 As the dead fall about you, you will know that I, the Lord, have done this. But among the nations there will be some who will survive My punishment. My people, those in exile, scattered around the world, will remember Me and they will hate themselves for their evil deeds. They will know that the Lord did not threaten in vain, when the prophets said that this terrible calamity will come upon the earth.

    Ezekiel 6:11-14 The Lord says: Show regret for your abominable ways, you people of Israel, for many will die from the judgement I bring, thus I will spend My anger. You will know that I am the Lord when all the slain fall around their altars of idolatry. I shall stretch out My hand to make the Land a desolate and deserted waste.
    Ref: REBible. Some verse abridged.


    The Lord will unleash His anger’ - Rev. 6:12-17, 1 Samuel 2:10, Isaiah 34:2 This is not a man caused event. God will not allow nuclear pollution in the Holy Land.

    the prophets said about this calamity’. - More than 100 prophesies vividly describe the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 30:26-28, Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7

    the end is coming to the Land, to make Israel a desolate and deserted waste’. - This will be the result of a Coronal Mass Ejection strike that will depopulate and cleanse all the area of Greater Israel. Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 2:4-5 This will enable the great migration of God’s Christian people to take place, soon after the Land is regenerated. Isaiah 32:15-20, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Isaiah 35:1-10

    devastation on all the earth’ – everyone will be affected. Habakkuk 3:12, Isaiah 63:3

    ‘call all to account’, Isaiah 10:3, 1 Corinthians 3:13

    the trumpet sounds’Isaiah 18:3, Joel 2:1, Zechariah 9:14

    ‘all is ready’Isaiah 22:6, Psalms 7:12-16, Psalms 37:14

    but no one goes to war’ – There will be no WW3 nuke war. Deut. 32:34-35, Jer. 49:37

    people will be terrified, a Day of panic’Jeremiah 6:24-25, Luke 21:25-26
    This is not and cannot be the Return of Jesus in His glory, because:

    you will know that I, the Lord, have done this’ – He is not seen at this time. Psalms 18:11. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4

    Outside is the sword, many will die’ – By the fires and earthquakes of this CME. Jeremiah 25:33, Isaiah 66:15-17, Hebrews 10:27

    in the cities will be plague and famine’Isaiah 13:12. Psalms 109:24

    some will survive’ – Those who trusted the Lord and called upon His Name. Also heeded the warnings and kept under shelter. Isaiah 26:20-21, Isaiah 29:4, Isaiah 37:32

    My people will remember Me’ – Christians who love the Lord and keep His commandments. Isaiah 50:10, Zechariah 10:9, Colossians 1:11-12
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    No disrespect but what translation said this....
    Every hand will hang limp and people will wet their pants with fright.
     
  3. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Wise 2have humblepride but not PridefulHumbleness. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

    +6,113
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    I don't know but I found this from Gill:

    and all knees shall be weak as water; tremble and beat one against another, for fear of the enemy; or,

    "shall flow with water,''

    as the Targum; either with sweat or urine, which are sometimes both caused by fear.
     
  4. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Wise 2have humblepride but not PridefulHumbleness. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

    +6,113
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    (ABP) All hands shall be enfeebled, and all thighs shall be tainted in wetness.

    (Brenton) All hands shall be completely weakened, and all thighs shall be defiled with moisture.

    (DRB) All hands shall be made feeble, and all knees shall run with water.
     
  5. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,165
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    My REBible says;...every knee turns to water.
    Other prophesies:
    Jeremiah 6:24-26 News of them [the coming disaster] has reached us and our hands hang limp, agony grips us, like a woman in labor. Do not go outside for terror is spread all around. In an instant, the despoiler is upon us.

    Jeremiah 30:6-7 Every man grips his sides and every face turns pale. How awful is that Day. It is a time of trouble for the descendants of Jacob, but some will be rescued out of it.

    Ezekiel 21:5-7a All shall know that I, the Lord has drawn My sword.... groan bitterly until you collapse. All hearts will melt, all hands hang limp, all courage will fail.

    What causes this effect is not the long term effect of knee joint damage, but a sudden and very frightening event, the Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath to destroy His enemies.
    Uncontrollable bladder release is a known effect of extreme fright.

    Latching onto a minor point like this, is just a way to avoid addressing the main point of Ezekiel's Prophecy.
     
  6. Acts29

    Acts29 Member

    271
    +66
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Since it is the leg, thigh, knee that is wet, it would seem that urine is the right understanding. Sweat from fear would be all over the body. Just my thoughts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  7. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    With all due respect, translations are important. I dont know what a Rebible is. If you think I'm latching on to something in-significant my apologies. It just sounds wrong.
     
  8. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,165
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    The Revised English Bible. Oxford Edition 1989.

    Translators tend to downplay unpleasant and rude Biblical truths. I stand by the interpretation of: people will wet their pants in fright. Ezekiel 7:17

    What Ezekiel and ALL of the prophets inform us about is: the terrible Day the Lord will destroy His enemies.
    We should be aware of it and be prepared physically and spiritually.
     
  9. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    785
    +130
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    I've no problem with translating this in all its "unpleasant and rude Biblical truth". Any seasoned soldier knows what the effect of the fright of battle can have on the human body. It's only natural, and is no more vulgar than scripture's "covering his feet" reference to King Saul in the cave, relieving himself by dropping his garments around his feet. We all know what this refers to. No mystery at all.

    What I do have a problem with is assigning Ezekiel 7's words to a fulfillment in our future, when God most certainly said that "NOW has the end come upon thee", speaking of Israel's then-current judgment of captivity. Ezekiel is most clear that he was writing this book while he was "among the captives by the river of Chebar" in the land of the Chaldeans (Ezekiel 1:1-3). The Babylonian captivity had just begun for them, which judgment would continue for the entire duration of 70 prophesied years of exile for the captives.

    To assign this judgment in Ezekiel to a time in our future is to disregard the time-relevant indicators within the context itself.
     
  10. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,165
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    To throw the prophecy, of the Gog/Magog attack into the past, is to ignore the fact of there being no evidence, archaeological or Biblical of it ever having happened.

    Again: the OP of this thread is not about the G/M attack, but the great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire sent from the sun.
     
  11. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    785
    +130
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    keras, your post is discussing Ezekiel chapter 7. This chapter does not have anything to do with the sixth seal of Revelation, nor is it describing the battle of Gog against Israel. Ezekiel 7 is specifically speaking of a present disaster that God was "NOW" sending upon Israel for its abominations at the time Ezekiel was writing. This was the Babylonian judgment, resulting in the 70 years of exile for Ezekiel's people.

    This particular "the day" of judgment for Israel already had its "morning" that had gone forth (Ezekiel 7:10). Multiple times God said that the end had come upon Israel - it had already arrived as He was delivering His words to Ezekiel. The first wave of judgment had begun (the "morning" of that "day" had already gone forth), and that "day" of God's judgment would continue to bring disaster to Ezekiel's nation and Temple in the years to follow until both were destroyed.

    There were several Babylonian deportations from Israel and Jerusalem. Ezekiel was among the first captives taken - one of the "good figs", like Daniel and his three friends. God entrusted Ezekiel with His messages of further soon-coming disasters, as well as messages of regathering them in the post-exilic return. Beyond the time of that post-exilic return, God gave Ezekiel a prophecy of the Gog battle which would take place in the land of Israel when they would rise up against one another in civil war, when "every man's hand shall be against his brother". You claim this has not yet been fulfilled, but it has in the person of Simon Bar Gioras and his army which came against the mountains of Jerusalem in AD 69. But that is a subject for a different post.
     
  12. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,165
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Your opinion, not mine.

    Ezekiel 7:2-13 The Lord says: The end is coming to the Land of Israel and devastation upon all four corners of the earth.
    This prophecy has not been fulfilled yet. It does parallel Revelation 6:2-17.
     
  13. jamiec

    jamiec Active Member

    269
    +126
    United Kingdom
    Catholic
    Private
    Sometimes, the authors of the Bible use indecorous language. I think it is a mistake either to exaggerate it, or to soften it. And where the text is ambiguous, STM that the translation should reflect the ambiguity.

    Whether we modern readers of the texts think that a biblical author is indecorous or not, is IMO of not the slightest importance. What matters, very much indeed, is that the translation should be completely faithful and accurate. Since this is impossible, translations should approach this unattainable ideal as closely as possible.
     
  14. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    785
    +130
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    You aren't saying what translation you are using, but in the majority of translations (at least 19 in a brief count), this verse states that the end HAS COME on the four corners of the land of Israel. God uses the word "shortly" in Ezekiel 7:8 when He would pour out His fury and anger upon them for their abominations. He uses the word "near" for the "day of trouble", and says that "the time has come". How you can extend all those time-relevant terms into the far distant future in punishment for Israel's abominations makes no sense, given the entire context.

    This Ezekiel 7 judgment on Israel resulted in the first death of the nation and the Temple in 586 BC. It was later duplicated in Jerusalem and Israel's "second death" of the nation and the Temple in the AD 70 era. If you want to call that a "parallel", I could agree with that. But Ezekiel 7 and Revelation 6 are not describing the same time period; just the same type of destruction on Israel taking place for a first time and then a second time. After this "second death" in AD 70, it was "thrown down" never to rise again with any spiritual significance in God's eyes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  15. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,165
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Bible prophecy is usually quoted in the present tense, because of the sureness of its fulfillment. Look at Zechariah 9:9, made hundreds of years before it happened.
    I do not see that any of Ezekiel 7 relates to the first century.
    Ezekiel 7:1..the end is coming onto the 4 corners of the earth.

    Perhaps you can explain why you must place it all into past history?
     
  16. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    785
    +130
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    That is not exactly present tense used in Ezekiel 7 - the beginning of this judgment had already started in the recent past, and was in the process of unfolding. The "morning" of that "day" of judgment had already "gone forth" (Ezekiel 7:10). The rest of the "day" of judgment would continue to unfold in a process from the first deportation of the "good figs" like Daniel and Ezekiel, until the last deportation of the "vile figs" (Jeremiah 29:17), when Jerusalem and the Temple was finally destroyed in 586 BC.

    I did not say that Ezekiel 7 was accomplished in the first century. Ezekiel 7 was the beginning of Jerusalem and Israel's FIRST DEATH in 586 BC, which the book of Lamentations mourns deeply. Seventy years after its FIRST DEATH, God revived the nation of Israel and its Temple in the post-exilic return under the ministry of Nehemiah, Ezra, Zerubbabel, Haggai, and Joshua the high priest. After that revival, the nation eventually fell into rebellion again, and experienced its "SECOND DEATH" (Revelation 20:14) in the AD 66-70 era.

    Death and Hell (Hades - the grave) came to Israel's Jerusalem TWICE.

    For its FIRST DEATH in 586 BC (Isaiah 28:18) the Jewish rulers had made a covenant with Death and Hell, thinking they would not be overcome by them. God said they were wrong, and that they would be overtaken and trodden down by these disasters.

    For Jerusalem's "SECOND DEATH" in AD 70, Death and Hell were thrown into the city for the inhabitants to experience again (Revelation 20:14). This time, there would not be a revival of the nation and the Temple anymore, since the mighty angel would cast the great city down into the sea; thrown down, and never to be found any more at all (Revelation 18:21).

    God "cast out the bondwoman and her son" (Old Covenant Jerusalem) in AD 70, so that the "children of the promise" would remain (New Covenant Jerusalem) without any competing rival. Paul understood this allegory between Hagar and Sarah / Old Covenant Jerusalem and New Covenant Jerusalem, and taught this first-century physical removal of Old Jerusalem in Galatians 4:22-31.
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,165
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Well then, perhaps I can explain why people like to throw the prophesies into past history;
    They simply cannot understand or visualize the dramatic things the prophets talk about.
    They place it all in the past, without any historical evidence.
    They do not want to, or even consider they might become involved in those events.

    It a shame, really as we should be aware of God's plans for our future. He has told us all about it.
     
  18. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

    785
    +130
    United States
    Baptist
    Married

    Keras, in everything I have yet posted on this forum, I have never said that God has no plans for our future stated in scripture. When Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:7 about "the ages (plural) that are coming" from his perspective on the timeline in the first century, this alone gives simple evidence of God's future plans for the world after the "culmination of the ages" and the AD 70 period.

    The poster SANTOSO earlier gave a great explanation in his "End of Ages" post a reason for the division of the ages leading up to the first century, and the future ages that would follow after that time. The ages from creation forward to Christ were under the representation of the "first Adam". At the "culmination of the ages", Christ appeared and sacrificed Himself (Hebrews 9:26), so that the future ages would be under the representation of the "second Adam", which was Christ. These plural ages under Christ's representation as the "second Adam" did not stop with the AD 70 period, as the emphasis from some Full Preterists might lead one to think.

    Persecution for the believers is to be expected in every generation until the final judgment. "Yeah, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution", Paul warned Timothy. We today are not exempt, and should be prepared to be involved in persecution for our faith to some degree or another unless God spares us in His mercy.

    It's just that the particular kind of tribulations that the early church was prophesied to experience actually did come to pass for them in their generation. You and I are not going to be summoned before a non-existent Sanhedrin council to be beaten in the synagogues and imprisoned for our faith in Christ as those in the early church were. We may experience other trials similar in intensity, but that does not negate the fulfillment of all that list of tribulations which Christ said were "about to come to pass" for His own disciples in Luke 21:8-36.
     
  19. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

    +436
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    Josephus mentions Alexander the great fighting Gog and magog. Alexander had to get through Turkey to reach the ME. There is an historical point, just like Antiochus Epiphanies. Yet still not the actual people coming against Israel at the 6th Seal.

    Not sure one can deny that the ten lost tribes were spread across the whole northern sections of the earth hundreds of years before Alexander. Perhaps they tried many times to get back to their land, but could not. But how they assimilated into other nations will remain buried in time.

    I still do not think you can conclude all OT prophecy is past history. I do not think Gog Magog is civil war. I think it is about people on the fringes of society, trying to get back to their roots, but failing to do so, or going about it the wrong way.
     
Loading...