Expert answers needed for these questions...

[Fred Sherbet]

Ask your muslim friend about Jesus' mother's (Mary's) relationship with Moses. I've been told that the Torah says Mary is Moses' Sister (Now that's old!)

Mohammed learnt alot about christianity and judaisim due to his trading with them. He didn't own, and couldn't read a bible, so his knowledge of them was second, third and fourth hand. (or muslims claim, from God). There seems to be a little confusion in the Islam book. Here are some of its claims:

The world was created in 8 days
One of Noah's Sons died in the flood
Moses personally witnessed Noah's Flood
Nimrod, who built Babel, and Abraham were contempories
Canaan and Moses lived at the same time
Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the sister of Moses.

btw, i get this information from David Pawson. His view of Islam is VERY interesting

 

[Reformationist]

I think you are misunderstanding. "Three personas in one ousia" is another way of saying three divine persons in one substance. God is one, though in three. But you knew that.

I'm not misunderstanding. I just think that persona is a poor word choice to explain the Trinity. A persona is NOT a person. It is a character or fictional representation. It is a role, not a distinct personality. lucaspa even equated it to the various "hats" that one person can wear, i.e., " father, husband, boss, brother, son, etc." He also goes onto to say all of those are him but just different aspects of the same him. The trinity is NOT just different aspects of God. It's three distinct personalities, though in complete unity, who each share the divine essence exclusive only to God.

God bless

 

[nephilimiyr]

You want answers from only experts here???

 

[Devoted to the Lord!]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[vanshan]

Check out some of the data on this site:

www.islamreview.com

It reveals many of the problems that are part of the Muslim faith.

 

[SolomonVII]

I had a conversation with a muslim:

He claims that the bible was changed in the council of 325, the council
of Nicea and the council of Aleppo.

Canon was decided upon at Nicea. It wasn't changed. The oldest and most
widely believed gospels and letters were the one that were accepted.
Many other writings, such as the ones that most definitely influenced
the writings of the Koran, were rejected outright. This was due to the
ahistorical nature of these pseudo-Christian writings, as well as the
fact that they stressed the magical over and above the biographical.

And that Mohammed was sent to revive the true ideas.

The true ideas were alive and well. The Arabian peninsula, though, was
a hotbed of heresy. Marian worship, and Nestorian heresy which either made
Mary into a Goddess, or Jesus into a man, were alive and well. Such
tales were both accepted and rejected by Islam to differing degrees.

He said it says in the Plasms of wou in the 23rd verse:
"He shall be like moses and shall be from the mount of paran, brother
of the Jews"

He said that this is Mohammed, because Mohammed did battle like like
moses and brought new order, mecca is the mount of paran, and the
brother of the jews are arabs.

Moslems are fond of obscurely fitting different verses in the Bible in
order to show that Mohammed was prophecied in the Bible just like Jesus
was. However, it is not likely that Mecca was ever in the Sinai penisula, even when continental drift is acounted for.
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/20020429.htm

He said that God sent the plasms of David, the Torah, the bible and now
the Qu'ran. The plasms are lost, the Torah and bible have been changed.
God always sent a reviver of faith through the prophets, mohammed was
the last with the eternal Qu'ran.

Christians do believe that the Psalms, Torah, and biblical writings are
from God. Isn;t it strange though that the Pslams are both lost, and a
source for a prophecy about Mohammed!

He said as the Qu'ran says "we have brought down the word and shall
keep it".

The hadiths definitely state that the original copy of the Koran was
burned lest it differ from the one that a general of Mohammed's army had
collected.
Before this, this general made sure that all versions of the Koran except for the one that he had in his possession must be destroyed too. This because there were many differences between the Koran's followed by the diverse people of a rapidly expanding empire, and the general was very worried that these differences would lead to political disunity.
It would be a very naive faith indeed to assume that the version that general had in his possession was the correct one, and the original that Mohammed's widow had in her possession might not be.

He said Mohammed never knew the stories yet they are identical to the Torah and bible, and that mohammed was illiterate and far away from Jews and christians who he could have heard the stories from.

Biographies of Mohammed reveal he had extensive dealings with Jews, and even a Christian wife.

He said the Qu'ran says another man was crucified in Jesus' place.

If this were true, the whole of the New Testament would become stripped of its essential meaning. Jesus is our Paschal Lamb, and our Levitican sacrifice whose unblemished innocence assures that God will accept it. Salvation is based on the premise that Jesus was indeed crucified! The resurrection without the sacrifice cannot fulfill scripture.

And yet Mohammed had high praise for the gospel of Jesus, and the people of the Book in general!
To say the least, Mohammed's teaching is very inconsistent on this. Or if it is not, Muslims understanding of his teaching must be flawed.

Illiteracy was likely a factor in this inconsistency, as well lack of exposure to the actual orthodox teachings of the Catholic Church.

He said the Jews have enclosed themslves and made the creator to the level of the creation as for the christians they have made jesus into a God.

Yes, Christians do believe that Jesus is God! In Jesus' own words, "Before Abraham, I Am".
In other words, Jesus is not god because we say so; He is God because He says so, and he prphecied for us the sign of Jonah as the only sign that He will give as evidence that what He claimed is true.

Jews do tend to see themselves as a chosen people set apart , but they are very involved in worldy affairs as well, as far as I can tell anyway.

He said that the Torah supports that only Jews shall go to heaven, which goes against God's wishes, and that the Bible has encompansated many false allegations and ideas.

Jews do not say this about other people. For them, there exists a special covenenat that applies to them only. For the gentiles, there is a still a standard of behavior that God expects and follwing this standard, which should be self-evident to all, is all that is necessary for the gentiles to go to heaven.

In terms of heaven, certain teachings in both the Christian and Moslem traditons tend to be much more exclusive than is the norm in Jewish teaching.

He said christianity has many odd mysteries like God is one, why make him into a trinity etc.

God is transcendant and yet immanent. He is eternally unchanging , and yet through His Holy Spirit both the Heavens and the Earth are being recreated anew. The ways of God are indeed mysterious and beyond finite human understanding. Trinity helps give expression to the mystery that is God.

Do not Muslims have 99 or 999 names for Allah? does that mean that there are 999 Allahs? I do not believe that is their teaching, nor is three different Gods the Christian teaching.

Please answer these claims, thank you.

I was wondering where this thread disappeared to. When a thread is moved, CF tells you that it has been moved, but not where!

 

[Jay2004]

Let me ask all of you this...

Mohamed was aware of Judaism and Christianity because there were many in Mecca at that time.

Lets see
Gabrial apparently appeared to Mohamed and told him that Jesus was not crucified and was just a prophet..
didn't Gabrial tell Mary that she was having the Son of God??
Why would gabrial tell 2 diferent things..

God appeared to Abraham and told Abraham that his son Isaac, descendants of the Jews would build a covenant and that his other son Ismail, descendants of the Arabs would build a great nation, not a covenant..

God also appeared to Moses
God apeared to Jesus

Why did God no appear to Mohamed?

They say that the bible was changed at the council of Nicea, well there is scripture in existance today that dates back to the 1st century and that same ancient scripture says that Jesus is the son of God, so I do not know where the Moslems are getting that info from.

But then Islam is an evil religon, based on lies

 

[newname]

Faith is the beginning of salvation. If you have been given faith, by God (this can only be given by God) you have knowledge that Jesus Christ is the only way to life. You must continue to "seek ye first that kingdom of God" above everything else and God will show you what the truth is. Continue to ask questions and seek truth. God is faithful, he knows your heart.

Trust God, He will direct you the right direction if you want the truth more than anything else. Man or any denomination can not do this, only God, when you find the truth, you will know. This is a process and it takes time. Remember, the Israelites had to go into the wilderness, to come out of the wilderness.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" (John 10)

Trust God that he will lead you away from false teachings and lead you to truth, continue to read and study, if it's false, he will guide you away from it.

This is true for all the church, they must continue to seek truth until they KNOW that they KNOW. It's the Holy Spirit that protects you from false teaching, not "man".

Many will tell you that "this doctrine is wrong" or "this doctrine is right". Only after the Lord teaches you Himself will you be able to "dicern" right from wrong.

Yes, there are many "teachers" out there, but most are not taught by God, but they "steal" from other teachers, quoting each others material, because they are not speaking divinely, which can only be given by God.

My prayer for all of you that are members of church, that you "seek diligently" for the truth and believe that God has the power to teach you Himself.

speaking the truth by the Holy Spirit, serving only Jesus Christ and God, our Heavenly Father, - newname

 

[Devoted to the Lord!]

And what about these claims:

luke 18:18 Jesus says "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is God"...so he was not god.

If jesus was GOD, why he pray to god before he died? Matthew 27:46 "My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Acts 2:24 "God raised jesus' clearly makes jesus distinct from Almighty god.

 

[Anti-Fear]

Whatever your friend said there are a number of things that discredit Mohammad:

1. Mohammad's teaching doesn't match with what is written previously because they base their reward on physical gratification in heaven in form of "big breasted maidens" yes I checked 3 Koran translation and it speaks of virgin women rewarding men in heaven. Emphasis is on physicality, not spirituality.

2. There is no proof at all that Mohammad was a prophet. If you look at most influental old testament prophets they've done miralces which many people saw, so those miracles from God somehow proved that they're prophets from God.
Jesus performed many miracles witnessed by many people, so it also is a proof that Jesus was not an ordinary prophet (if you look at it from non-Christian viewpoint), and definately a special being.

3. Mohammad has done NO miracles whatsoever, nor were there any witnesses to describe or provide some reasoning as to why Mohammad is the prophet.

So, next time ask your friend how does he know Mohammad is the prophet.

 

[Anti-Fear]

And what about these claims:

luke 18:18 Jesus says "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is God"...so he was not god.

If jesus was GOD, why he pray to god before he died? Matthew 27:46 "My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Acts 2:24 "God raised jesus' clearly makes jesus distinct from Almighty god.

Because Jesus in his eartlhy form was not the same with God, but an avatar of God. Thats how I see it can make sense.
Remember, Jesus wasn't born with innate knowledge, he learned and gained it. He was one with God, the God, after his ressurection. Before his crucifiction, he was a one with God yet separate from him because he lived in a physical form.
Am I missing anything here?

 

[HoT-MetaL]

First things first.

Dont argue with a Muslim unless you're certain of THREE things.

1) You know HOW to minister to him.
2) You know your Bible BETTER than him.
3) You know The Koran BETTER than him.

It is NOT a simple thing, to minister to a Muslim. I could spend threads on it You need to know HOW to read The Koran, you need to define terms with him, and most importantly... it is a SPIRITUAL battle. You need to walk in faith, and not knowledge.


God Bless, metal.