Existential Age vs Physical Age

[Tiberius]

How old are you, AV?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

How old are you, AV?

He's 4.5 billion years old. Duh!

 

[mzungu]

He's 4.5 billion years old. Duh!

No silly; He is 13.7 billion years old DUH!

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

No silly; He is 13.7 billion years old DUH!

Ahhhh, yes. Very good point sir.

 

[Jazer]

No silly; He is 13.7 billion years old DUH!

If you look at the light from a star that is 13.7 billion light years away, how old is that light? You are looking at light that took 13.7 billion year to get here & you are looking at the light of a star that is one week old.

 

[Freodin]

Yes, I know.

I didn't say it did, did I?

All I want you to see in this thread is that an object can have two different ages: one physical and one existential.

So we have one object: the car.

It has two different ages: existential and physical.

Its existential age is one day.

What is its physical age? The age of its parts? The age of its molecules? The age of its atoms? All different!

It seems the object now has already four ages!

But it gets better: if we say the physical age of the car is the age of its atoms, for example... what age are we talking about? The physical or the existential age of the atoms? Then what is the physical age of atoms?


No, your splitting of ages (and other things) is not reasonable. An object has one specific age: the time that has passed since a defining event.

 

[Freodin]

Ahhhh, yes. Very good point sir.

And he is also every age in between. Up to zero.

 

[mzungu]

If you look at the light from a star that is 13.7 billion light years away, how old is that light? You are looking at light that took 13.7 billion year to get here & you are looking at the light of a star that is one week old.

A very logical and good question. Light is electromagnetic radiation that travels in a pure vacuum at (pardon the pun) light speed. Actually we do not have a method to measure the age of the photons themselves but we can use them to tell us something about the object that the photon came from either by reflection or by creation.

Photons do not age. A photon created today will not differ to a photon created a month ago. They will be identical in all ways.

 

[Tiberius]

If we are looking at light from a star that is 10 billion years old (for the sake of argument) but the light was created only 6000 years or so ago, how can that light tell us anything about that star? It was formed almost 10 billion light years away from the star that it carries information about. How can a photon be created at the same time as a star billions of light years away, and yet have information about that star? It violates relativity.

Of course, one could say that God invoked a miracle to accomplish this, but given the sheer number of stars in the universe (which is a truly astronomical number, pardon the pun, and no matter how large you think it is, it's larger), this is a huge number of miracles God would need to perform. Wouldn't it be much easier to just create the universe 13.7 billion years ago and let everything work itself out? The end result would be exactly the same, wouldn't it?

 

[dlamberth]

Are you serious with this answer? how can the atoms be younger than the car?

Quantum Physics

.

 

[razeontherock]

I remember back before plastic

Plastic was invented post-'51?

 

[razeontherock]

you may ask about the age of components of that composite entity (e.g., when did the atoms form with their current numbers of protons?),

You may also ask how old the raw material is, in which case everything has the same age - the origin of the Universe. Pretty sure that's 42

 

[razeontherock]

if God crams a lot of age into something is there an age limit beyond which even God himself cannot cram more age into that thing?

 

[Jazer]

Plastic was invented post-'51?

In 1967 in the movie the Graduate there was a business man who gave one word of advise: "Plastics". The Graduate "One Word: Plastics" - YouTube

Plastic kind of evolved with transisters. Because back in the day of tubes the case was more often made out of wood. Or maybe bakelite or a celluloid that had some flexability but did not hold up very well.

 

[mzungu]

In 1967 in the movie the Graduate there was a business man who gave one word of advise: "Plastics". The Graduate "One Word: Plastics" - YouTube

Plastic kind of evolved with transisters. Because back in the day of tubes the case was more often made out of wood. Or maybe bakelite or a celluloid that had some flexability but did not hold up very well.

You don't know the meaning of PLASTIC
The first man-made plastic was created by Alexander Parkes where he first exhibited it in 1862 at the Great International Exhibition in London. He called the material Parkesine. It was an organic material derived from cellulose and was mouldable when heated.

 

[MoonLancer]

AV your a young earth creationists because you think the earth has only has revolved around the sun approximately 6000 times. This whole thread is one long excuse to confuse yourself about the real issue.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Science = the earth is 4.57 billion years old.
AV1611VET = if science says it, that's what I'll go with.

Case closed.

Interesting thing to say for someone with "SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE" as their title.

 

[British Bulldog]

Interesting thing to say for someone with "SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE" as their title.

I think he has taken Fitzgerald's famous quote "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function" as a blueprint for his religious beliefs.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Rejuvenation?

No it is called "constant creation". IIRC pendurantists like Jonathan Edwards believed in constant creation.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV your a young earth creationists because you think the earth has only has revolved around the sun approximately 6000 times. This whole thread is one long excuse to confuse yourself about the real issue.

Some say I'm Last Thursday, and some say I'm Omphalos.

Make up my mind, will you?