Existence of demons

[KWCrazy]

Even if I were to accept the existence of an historical Jesus, no one knows that Jesus actually did cast out literal demons. Yes, we have Mark telling a story which may or may not have been intended to be some allegory, but that's about all we have.

I'm sorry but you are not correct.
In fact, exorcisms are on the rise as more people turn to the occult, hard drugs or Ouija boards. Demons are real and their power is real.
I was performing my last rite of exorcism in the living room, and all of a sudden the television turns on. Sitting right beside me is the remote control, and I start chuckling to myself. The homeowner standing next to me started to get paranoid, but I assured her that it was probably a glitch or something with the remote. "But here's the thing," she told me. "The television's not plugged in, and neither is the cable box." I didn't believe her at first, but she showed me where the cords weren't connected to the wall. But she's had no problems since then. source

 

[Eudaimonist]

I'm sorry but you are not correct.
In fact, exorcisms are on the rise as more people turn to the occult, hard drugs or Ouija boards. Demons are real and their power is real.

What would hard drugs have to do with demon-possessions, unless they are chemically modifying human brains and causing psychological changes in a naturalistic way?

As for Ouija boards, they have already been explained through the ideomotor phenomenon.

Scientific tests by the English scientist Michael Faraday, Manchester surgeon James Braid,[8] the French chemist Michel Eugène Chevreul, and the American psychologists William James and Ray Hyman have demonstrated that many phenomena attributed to spiritual or paranormal forces, or to mysterious "energies," are actually due to ideomotor action. Furthermore, these tests demonstrate that "honest, intelligent people can unconsciously engage in muscular activity that is consistent with their expectations".[9] They also show that suggestions that can guide behavior can be given by subtle clues (Hyman 1977).

It has nothing to do with the "power" of demons.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[KWCrazy]

What would hard drugs have to do with demon-possessions, unless they are chemically modifying human brains and causing psychological changes in a naturalistic way?

The Bible calls the use of mind altering chemicals "sorcery." We are warned against sorcery because it defiles the host.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12
"When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you."

As for Ouija boards, they have already been explained through the ideomotor phenomenon.

That is AN explanation but not THE explanation. THE explanation would hold true at all times and in all cases. The intent of a Ouija board is to summon a spirit to communicate. If one is successful then one is communicating with a spirit... but which spirit? It's not your grandmother. It is a familiar spirit; a demon. They will tell you things; make you want to learn more. They will defile you. They can sometimes possess you. Look up personal accounts of Ouija boards. You will no doubt reject everything written, but there are some pretty bizarre happenings.

Scientific tests by the English scientist Michael Faraday, Manchester surgeon James Braid,[8] the French chemist Michel Eugène Chevreul, and the American psychologists William James and Ray Hyman have demonstrated that many phenomena attributed to spiritual or paranormal forces, or to mysterious "energies," are actually due to ideomotor action.

Don't think a demon is going to let you test him.
The greatest accomplishment the Devil ever did was to convince people he didn't exist.
I believe that most experiences with Ouija boards are human driven. I also believe that if you call for a demon you might just get what you're asking for.
God is real. Angels are real. Demons are real. Hell is real.
Know these four things, because here is wisdom.

 

[mindlight]

The Bible calls the use of mind altering chemicals "sorcery." We are warned against sorcery because it defiles the host.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12
"When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you."

That is AN explanation but not THE explanation. THE explanation would hold true at all times and in all cases. The intent of a Ouija board is to summon a spirit to communicate. If one is successful then one is communicating with a spirit... but which spirit? It's not your grandmother. It is a familiar spirit; a demon. They will tell you things; make you want to learn more. They will defile you. They can sometimes possess you. Look up personal accounts of Ouija boards. You will no doubt reject everything written, but there are some pretty bizarre happenings.

Don't think a demon is going to let you test him.
The greatest accomplishment the Devil ever did was to convince people he didn't exist.
I believe that most experiences with Ouija boards are human driven. I also believe that if you call for a demon you might just get what you're asking for.
God is real. Angels are real. Demons are real. Hell is real.
Know these four things, because here is wisdom.

Where does the bible condemn the use of drugs for the benefit of a person who needs healing? Would you say the same about painkillers in operations where effectively the brain is fooled into not feeling pain during brain surgery?

There is a legitimate use of drugs that doctors can do to ease the pains of care, in the case of antibiotics to rid the body ( even brain) of disease and to suppress the worst impacts of a persons spiritual or mental state. The issue here is not so much their use but that they are not the answer to the problem of demonic possession or affliction.

 

[KWCrazy]

Where does the bible condemn the use of drugs for the benefit of a person who needs healing? Would you say the same about painkillers in operations where effectively the brain is fooled into not feeling pain during brain surgery?

We all know that is not what I was referencing. Way to distort a post.
I seem to remember God putting Adam to sleep before surgery.
The issue isn't the use of required medication and you know it. The issue is the abuse of hard drugs. Intentionally dulling your mind gives demons an opportunity to enter.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I have just one question for "excorcism" believers...

How do you objectively tell the difference between a psychiatric disorder or psychological problem and an actual demonic posession?

If the person performs acts that should be physically impossible, such as levitation, then it's probably a demon.

Tracie Harris from the Atheist Experience has said that certain fantastical events have been reported about an exorcism and that observation of the tape disappointingly reveals that nothing of the sort happened at all.

This is, in my opinion, an example of how Christianity works: people have "personal revelations" in which they are honestly, yet incorrectly, reporting fantastical events.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That is AN explanation but not THE explanation. THE explanation would hold true at all times and in all cases. The intent of a Ouija board is to summon a spirit to communicate. If one is successful then one is communicating with a spirit... but which spirit? It's not your grandmother. It is a familiar spirit; a demon. They will tell you things; make you want to learn more. They will defile you. They can sometimes possess you. Look up personal accounts of Ouija boards. You will no doubt reject everything written, but there are some pretty bizarre happenings.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija

From that page...

"Following its commercial introduction by businessman Elijah Bond on July 1, 1890,[1]the Ouija board was regarded as a parlor game unrelated to the occult until AmericanSpiritualist Pearl Curran popularized its use as a divining tool during World War I."

So regardless of what you believe about the "intent" of a Ouija board...you're wrong.

More importantly, could people just be imagining things? Could all the "demonic" activity that people believe is happening...not really be happening? Take a look at this article...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ch-Indonesia-discover-inflatable-SEX-TOY.html

Apparently, people thought this inflatable sex toy was a "fallen angel" which was heard to be "crying" when it was found.

Obviously, that's not the case...so are they lying? Did they actually hear crying? Did they not hear crying and then it became part of an exaggerated story? Who knows?

The important thing to take away is that when people want to believe in something...especially desperately believe in something...they'll find a way to do that.

It shouldn't be any surprise to you then that since I've never believed in demons...that somehow, I've managed to go my entire life without bumping into any.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Let the resident schizophrenic (hence the user name, in case you ever wondered) jump in here: I have had two exorcisms, once in high school and once when I became a member of the Russian Orthodox Church after college. Guess what? I still hear voices every minute of every day. I tried praying for relief, but they only get worse. I had priests pray over me during my ten hospitalizations, but it never helped, not one iota. Now I still have family who tell me I'm possessed. So tell me, Christians: am I? Do you think I'm possessed? Or is it a series of neurological malfunctions resulting in hallucinations, delusion and paranoia? Is the fact that I became an atheist part of the illness? I want honest answers, because some of the things hinted at in this thread are patently offensive to me, and I want to make sure I'm getting the story straight, so to speak...

 

[KWCrazy]

So tell me, Christians: am I? Do you think I'm possessed? Or is it a series of neurological malfunctions resulting in hallucinations, delusion and paranoia? Is the fact that I became an atheist part of the illness? I want honest answers, because some of the things hinted at in this thread are patently offensive to me, and I want to make sure I'm getting the story straight, so to speak...

Read the criteria for demon possession and you tell us.

 

[KWCrazy]

It shouldn't be any surprise to you then that since I've never believed in demons...that somehow, I've managed to go my entire life without bumping into any.

Good for you.
I've never bumped into any North Koreans. Therefore they do not exist.
What the Ouija board may have been designed or marketed as is not necessarily what it is being used for.
Try reading about people who actually sought to communicate with the dead.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Read the criteria for demon possession and you tell us.

I'm not a Christian. I'm asking you.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Good for you.
I've never bumped into any North Koreans. Therefore they do not exist.
What the Ouija board may have been designed or marketed as is not necessarily what it is being used for.
Try reading about people who actually sought to communicate with the dead.

Can they prove it?

Because there's been millions of dollars offered to anyone who can, yet it's never claimed. What does that tell you about their own confidence in their abilities?

I'm sure you can find some north koreans if you look in north korea.

 

[KWCrazy]

I'm not a Christian. I'm asking you.

1. Loss or lack of appetite
2. Cutting, scratching, and biting of skin
3. A cold feeling in the room
4. Unnatural bodily postures and change in the person's face and body
5. The possessed losing control of their normal personality and entering into a frenzy or rage, and/or attacking others
6. Change in the person's voice
7. Supernatural physical strength not subject the person's build or age
8. Speaking or understanding another language which they had never learned before
9. Knowledge of things that are distant or hidden
10. Prediction of future events (sometimes through dreams)
11. Levitation and moving of objects / things
12. Expelling of objects / things
13. Intense hatred and violent reaction toward all religious objects or items
14. Antipathy towards entering a church, speaking Jesus' name or hearing scripture.

source

 

[KWCrazy]

Can they prove it?
Because there's been millions of dollars offered to anyone who can, yet it's never claimed. What does that tell you about their own confidence in their abilities?

If you and I talk and you tell me of a detailed plan you have to assassinate the president, can I prove it?
There have been countless recordings where you can clearly hear words or phrase in white noise but this is inconclusive. In this age of cell phones there are more recordings then ever, but it's also getting easier to fake it. The bottom line is that for those who do not believe the Bible regarding demons, you will probably never have proof that suits you until it happens with you.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Demonic possession is not mental illness. Mental illness is caused by our own biology going wrong, just like any other illness, they only difference is what part of the body is sick. I believe demonic possession is probably real, but also incredibly rare. Likewise, while I believe demons are real, they are not hiding behind every corner.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Demonic possession is not mental illness. Mental illness is caused by our own biology going wrong, just like any other illness, they only difference is what part of the body is sick.

A straight answer! Thank you.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If you and I talk and you tell me of a detailed plan you have to assassinate the president, can I prove it?
There have been countless recordings where you can clearly hear words or phrase in white noise but this is inconclusive.

Actually, if you're interested in looking into it...those cases all have one thing in common. Wanna guess what it is?

Cheap recording devices.

With t.v., radio, cell phones, etc, you have literally millions of conversations being bounced around from one device to another through the air. If you buy yourself a cheap recording device of some kind...is it any wonder you occasionally hear bits and pieces of signals being sent everywhere?

There are all kinds of sophisticated modern recording devices used by professionals in the audio industry...and they can block out these radio, t.v., and cell phone signals. Not surprisingly, they never record "ghosts" either.

In this age of cell phones there are more recordings then ever, but it's also getting easier to fake it. The bottom line is that for those who do not believe the Bible regarding demons, you will probably never have proof that suits you until it happens with you.

Which it won't...ever.

I wouldn't jump to such conclusions.

Let me ask you...why do you think it is that "demonic possession" and "exorcism" suddenly spiked after the movie The Exorcist came out? Do you think that is because the devil decided "Now that everyone knows about this, and how to put a stop to it, it's the time to strike lol!" Take a look at this link...

http://www.livescience.com/27727-exorcism-facts-and-fiction.html

"After attending 50 exorcisms during research for his book, Michael Cuneo states that he never saw anything supernatural or unexplainable: No levitation or spinning heads or demonic scratch marks suddenly appearing on anyone's faces, but many emotionally troubled people on both sides of the ritual."

Fifty is a lot, isn't it? Don't you think at some point he should've witnessed something "supernatural" or "unexplainable" going on?

 

[Vicomte13]

Do you have any experience of demons being driven out of yourself or others?

Yes. Demons exist.

 

[Vicomte13]

Which it won't...ever.

Unless it does, in which case, you will have no say in the matter.

 

[Vicomte13]

What would hard drugs have to do with demon-possessions, unless they are chemically modifying human brains and causing psychological changes in a naturalistic way?

Damaging the mind. Weakening its rational faculties. Weakening its defenses. The word that we like to translate as "evil" is really the word "dysfunction".

Hard drugs mechanically break the brain, making part of it dysfunctional. For that matter, so does a good whiskey bender.

When the doors are mechanically taken off their hinges or the windows broken, things that could not otherwise climb in, can. And do. That's what drugs and alcohol have to do with demonic possession.