Exactly What is the Authority of the Pope?

[MattMMMan17]

The pope also teaches you can be saved outside of Jesus Christ.

Elaborate on that

 

[d0c markus]

Are you admitting it is a matter of taste and not Scripture

Taste? No Humility on my part, Lack of humility when he extends his hand to be kissed.

 

[d0c markus]

Elaborate on that

see above

 

[colossi3]

It is customary to show respect.

Could you please point to the Scripture that states that we should only kneel before God?

colossi3: Arguably it is a good custom to show respect, but not by kneeling before the pope if as he claims, he is descended from Ap. Peter, who decidedly was a man. I am surprised that a Catholic would ask for scripture to prove a biblical truth: I thought they believe their magisterium and tradition over and above the word of God.

Acts 10:
24) And on the morrow as they entered into Caesarea, Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25) And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26) But Peter took him up, saying 'Stand up; I myself also am a man'.

 

[colossi3]

colossi3: Arguably it is a good custom to show respect, but not by kneeling before the pope if as he claims, he is descended from Ap. Peter, who decidedly was a man. I am surprised that a Catholic would ask for scripture to prove a biblical truth: I thought they believe their magisterium and tradition over and above the word of God.

Acts 10:
24) And on the morrow as they entered into Caesarea, Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25) And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26) But Peter took him up, saying 'Stand up; I myself also am a man'.

ps: Rev 19:
9) And he said to me, 'Write: Blessed are they who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb'. And he said to me, 'These are the true sayings of God.'
10) And I fell at his feet to worship him, and he said to me: 'See that you do not do that; I am your fellowservant and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy.'

But of Jesus it is written: at the name of Jesus every knee should bow.

 

[colossi3]

...
To clear up any misunderstanding on the Catholic teaching that Jesus is the head of the Church, I would suggest you read Lumen Gentium, which is Vatican II' dogmatic constitution on the Church

colossi3: According to the Scrptures, the RCC should avoid even the appearance of evil; instead - and this is the truth and no lie, on every board where the RCCs post, 99% of their posts give the appearance that they do indeed worship Mary, kneel to her, pray to her; I have even seen a Marian Bible dedicated to her altars; that the pope is Christ on earth - infallible, which no man is; that Catholics believe these visions that extoll Mary, ie Fatima, Our Lady of Leouvres etc...care to explain that away?

 

[martinluther2003]

Do you think they are going to hell for those things?

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

can he get fired?

No, the Pope cannot be fired.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Shouldn't Christ be the head of the Church?

Christ is the head of the Church. The pope is the human being in charge of the church on Earth - but of course Christ is the head.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Out of respect for those in the Catholic church I will say that that is who they chose to be the leader of their church in this realm. Being a Catholic all my life (now christian non denominational) I can say that to the Catholics the pope is the closes that you can come to actually hanging out with Christ physically in this world.

Kinda. I would say it is more like hanging out with the Apostles.

He is supposedly a direct blood line decendent of one of the apostles.

This is not true. He holds the office of St. Peter but that's it.

I have nothing wrong with a earthly church leader. I believe that he might even be worthy of much respect BUT I do not condone any one person being exalted over all the other people on earth except for Christ. My whole family is cathoilc and I do understand how sensitive this question and issue is so not to disrespect anyone in this forum I will keep my person comments on the faith to myself.

I can therefore only say that to the Catholics he is very dera to them and that they take love for him over and above even our president. He is a religious icon, and has been for the last 25 years.

I do love the pope very much. He is our spiritual father. I do love Pope John Paul II for he is the vicar of Christ and the leader of the Christian Church, whereas I have tons of respect for President Bush who is the leader of my country.

If you need to learn more about the Catholic faith or who the pope is you can read a book called The Catchesim - it explains all their beliefs and what the popes role is etc.

Or read the book, "Pope Fiction" you can find it on amazon.com

Me personally , I believe he is just another man - only he never experienced the joy of fatherhood, or children, or all the wonderful things that God intended us to experience to build a testamony. I believe that he was deprived a normal life because he was sheltered behind the vatican walls and now that it is near his time to die, they will just elect someone else to do the same thing...Its sad...

It is not sad. The pope does miss out on somethings, but don't feel bad for him, he doesn't.

Again this is only a personal opinion NOT an insult or attack to anybody elses belief!

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Isnt it customary to kneel down before him, and kiss his hand? Something that Mordecai refused to do to Haman in the book of esther because he isnt supposed to kneel before anyone but God?

It is a sign of honor. The same way you would bow before the Queen of England or how Chinese people bow when they greet each other. It is just a sign of respect.

I think if I met him I would spend an hour kissing his hand. The man is amazing and has done so much for so many people.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Careful now don't go there. I've been there and it wasn't pretty. But like you it begs the question, What's up with that? Aren't people kissing a ring not somuch his hand? And what's with the ring anyway? I understand that the Pope gave rings to his Cardinals. "One ring to rule them all and in the darkness bind them"?

ahhh... you are thinking of the Lord of the Rings...

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

...What the real question here is , is, what are you showing him respect for? Why does he have so much respect? WHat did he do so great for people to flock to him as they did Christ? I dont understand that????

The man is a shepherd of over 1,100,000,000 sheep; a Holy Catholic Priest for 55 years; Speaks 8 languages fluently; Has visited over 123 countries; Canonized 462 Saints; Consecrated Russia to Mary; Is a defender of the unborn; 264th Successor of Peter; Survived an assassination attempt; Written 13 encyclicals; Has been Pope for 1/4 century. I say give the man some props. Worship him? Never. Respect for a leader in the faith? absolutely. Things get a little bit muddled when individual Catholics begin to place him on a pedestal that equates him with Christ. This is not a problem with the Catholic Church, but a problem with the laity's misconception of it, combined with a lack of humility(in my personal opinion) of some Church leaders. Note I am NOT denouncing the Church, but several of the undesirable qualities of the men within it.

To clear up any misunderstanding on the Catholic teaching that Jesus is the head of the Church, I would suggest you read Lumen Gentium, which is Vatican II' dogmatic constitution on the Church

Matt!

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

The pope also teaches you can be saved outside of Jesus Christ.

He does not. Stop speading these lies now!

The Pope correctly says it is possible for people to be saved outside of Jesus Christ. There is a HUGE difference.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Nope.


Buddhism is a religion of salvation.
CH:84-85, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, by John Paul II, Alfred A. Knopf, Inc. 1994

Lie!

Nice how you don't quote the Holy Father. I'd like all the lukers out there reading this to take note of this. Here is what our Holy Father said:

"Yes, you are right and I am grateful to you for this question. Among the religions mentioned in the Council document Nostra Aetate, it is necessary to pay special attention to Buddhism, which from a certain point of view, like Christianity, is a religion of salvation. Nevertheless, it needs to be said right away that the doctrines of salvation in Buddhism and Christianity are opposed."

"The Buddhist doctrine of salvation constitutes the central point, or rather the only point, of this system. Nevertheless, both the Buddhist tradition and the methods deriving from it have an almost exclusively negative soteriology."

- Crossing the Threshold of Hope, by John Paul II, Alfred A. Knopf, Inc. 1994

One can be saved outside the Church by a moral life.
VS:3, 08/06/1993 Veritatis Splendor, Encyclical of John Paul II, Aug. 1993, Pauline Books

Quote please.

 

[Daron]

He does not. Stop speading these lies now!

The Pope correctly says it is possible for people to be saved outside of Jesus Christ. There is a HUGE difference.

Hi

Did Messiah say it is possible for people to be saved outside of Me? (speaking of himself)

Thank you for your answer!

Daron

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Hi

Did Messiah say it is possible for people to be saved outside of Me?

Thank you for your answer!

Daron

What I am saying is... and what the Catholic Church teaches is... people who have never heard of Christ and his teachings will not be held responsible. Do you disagree?

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

colossi3: Arguably it is a good custom to show respect, but not by kneeling before the pope if as he claims, he is descended from Ap. Peter, who decidedly was a man. I am surprised that a Catholic would ask for scripture to prove a biblical truth: I thought they believe their magisterium and tradition over and above the word of God.

Wrong! Catholics hold that Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are equal. and they can never contradict each other.

Acts 10: 24) And on the morrow as they entered into Caesarea, Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends. 25) And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. 26) But Peter took him up, saying 'Stand up; I myself also am a man'.

Did you read the verse? "he fell to his feet, and worshipped him."

We are not worshipping the pope. We are paying respect. We worship only God. The same way we are not worshiping the Queen of England when we bow before her!

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

ps: Rev 19:
9) And he said to me, 'Write: Blessed are they who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb'. And he said to me, 'These are the true sayings of God.'
10) And I fell at his feet to worship him, and he said to me: 'See that you do not do that; I am your fellowservant and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy.'

But of Jesus it is written: at the name of Jesus every knee should bow.

Again, we don't worship the Pope.


And it is true, at the name of Christ every knee does bow!

 

[Daron]

... people who have never heard of Christ and his teachings will not be held responsible. Do you disagree?

Hi

No I do not disagree, They will come up in the 2nd resurrection and be judged to go the the left or right.

Daron