Exactly What is the Authority of the Pope?

[adam332]

See Rest-(rests, resting, rested, resteth, etc...)- 7verses

Job 17:16, Psa. 16:9, Hab. 3:16, John 11:13, Acts 2:26, Rev. 6:11, Rev. 14:13.

Sleep-(sleeps, slept, sleeping, sleepeth, sleepest, asleep, etc...)- 63verses

Deu. 31:16, 2 Sam. 7:12, 1 Kings 1:21, 1 Kings 2:10, 1 Kings 11:21, 1 Kings 11:43, 1 Kings 14:20, 1 Kings 14:31, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 15:24, 1 Kings 16:6, 1 Kings 16:28, 1 Kings 22:40, 1 Kings 22:50, 2 Kings 8:24, 2 Kings 10:35, 2 Kings 13:9, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:16, 2 Kings 14:22, 2 Kings 14:29, 2 Kings 15:7, 2 Kings 15:22, 2 Kings 15:38, 2 Kings 16:20, 2 Kings 20:21, 2 Kings 21:18, 2 Kings 24:6, 2 Chr. 9:31, 2 Chr. 12:16, 2 Chr. 14:1, 2 Chr. 16:13, 2 Chr. 21:1, 2 Chr. 26:2, 2 Chr. 26:23, 2 Chr. 27:9, 2 Chr. 28:27, 2 Chr. 32:33, 2 Chr. 33:20, Job 7:21, Job 14:12, Psa. 13:3, Psa. 76:6, Psa. 90:5, Dan. 12:2, Mat. 9:24, Mat. 27:52, Mark 5:39, Luke 8:52, John 11:11-13, Acts 7:60, Acts 13:36, 1 Cor. 5:20, 1Cor. 15:6, 1Cor. 15:18, 1 Cor. 15:51, Eph. 5:14, 1 Thes. 4:13-15, 2Pet 3:4.

Awake(wake, waketh, wakest, waken, wakened, etc...)

Psa. 17:15, Isa. 26:19, Isa.51:9, Isa. 52:1, 1Cor. 15:34, 1Thes. 5:10.

Notice any NT references? How about even prophetic ones?

 

[eightfoot514]

Enoch was taken up into heaven. He didn't die and ascend. He was just...taken up.

Genesis 5
24 Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

Hebrews 11
5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.

I think Elijah was also taken up...don't know about Moses. But now I'm wondering how that fits in with John 3:13.
John 3
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

Nevertheless, the point is, the New Testament makes it clear that angels and saints are aware of what goes on earth and can pray for us. And I haven't seen anything to counter that.

 

[Philip]

Wrong.

Elijah, Enoch, and Moses had all ascended to heaven.

Christ is the only one to return.

Only Christ ascended. The others you mentioned were assumed.

 

[d0c markus]

didnt moses and elijah come back during the transfiguration?

 

[adam332]

They all ascended. To ascend without death is called translated, as Enoch and Elijah did. To ascend after dying is to have been resurrected, as Moses and Jesus did. Remember, EVERYTHING shall be established by two or more witnesses.

Enoch and Elijah are witneses to the promise that those saints who are alive and remain will be glorified and taken up to heaven and receive eternal life.

Moses and Jesus are witneses to the promise that those saints who have already died will be glorified and taken up to heaven and receive eternal life.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promises....when He said two witnesses shall establish EVERTHING, you can bet He meant it.

 

[adam332]

They came back but, they did not testify to anything that had happened to them. Only Christ has gone and returned and testified of what we can expect. In is fathers house are many mansions and he will receive us to where he is.

 

[Symes]

John 3
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

.
When this was spoken, Moses and Elijah had not yet returned. This text proves nothing about the existence of purgatory

 

[Symes]

Eightfoot414

Nevertheless, the point is, the New Testament makes it clear that angels and saints are aware of what goes on earth and can pray for us. And I haven't seen anything to counter that.

The saints you are talking about are not in heaven but are in the grave. They are not praying for you as they have no life in themselves.

As I have said this whole issue of purgatory is a fales understanding of the immortality of the soul.

What is a soul?

The Bible says man became a living soul. A soul is our complete being, not some part of it.

 

[Philip]

The saints you are talking about are not in heaven but are in the grave. They are not praying for you as they have no life in themselves.

Holy Scripture teaches otherwise:

Baruch 3:4 (RSVA)
O Lord Almighty, God of Israel, hear now the prayer of the dead of Israel and of the sons of those who sinned before thee, who did not heed the voice of the Lord their God, so that calamities have clung to us. ​

 

[MattMMMan17]

The saints you are talking about are not in heaven but are in the grave. They are not praying for you as they have no life in themselves.

As I have said this whole issue of purgatory is a fales understanding of the immortality of the soul.

What is a soul?

The Bible says man became a living soul. A soul is our complete being, not some part of it.

Symes, it seems that you contradict yourself. You profess knowledge of the immortality of the soul, yet I perceive your belief to be that in death, the immortal soul ceases to exist, that our communion with God is severed, and the part we play in the Mystical Body of Christ is lost and forgotten. If this isn't what you mean, please adjust your wording so I can better understand what you mean.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

This thread has seen its better day. It is way off topic from the OP. It's time for it to come to rest.

Thank You,
JeffreyLloyd
CF Moderator: Gen. Theology
Team Faithfulness