Ex-Gays

[IamRedeemed]

Wrong as usual! The diffrence is there is a before and after witness, in their lives.

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Below is just ONE of those such glorious examples of the power of Christ to Save, Heal and Deliver!

From Bondage to Deliverance
by Dandridge M. Green

"It seemed to me that after the first couple of encounters it became very easy to give myself away to anyone who would show me attention."​

As the youngest of 16 children, I spent most of my time alone feeling very disconnected from my siblings. My world was a place of make believe and pretense. Somehow I knew in my heart I was different from other children, especially boys. I always felt more comfortable around females and tended to think of myself in the female gender.
As a young adult, I had what I thought was a recurring nightmare of being taken from my bed by a family member in the middle of the night to a dirt floor of a garage so he could have sex with me. I then realized the "nightmares" were memories of incest that lasted against my will for several years. It started when I was around eight years. Although I tried to resist him he always overpowered me. When I was in seventh grade, he was sent by my mother to pick me up from a late evening event at my school. I can remember the sick feeling I had in my stomach when I saw him pull up outside of my school instead of my mother. At first I refused to get in, knowing in the pit of me what would happen. "I'm not getting in," I said, knowing very well I had no choice. "Come on," he replied, "I promise we'll go straight home." I knew inside he was lying. On the way home he took me to a secluded place on a dark road and forced me to have sex. The next morning I did not go to school, feeling very sore and confused I told my mother I was not feeling well. I can remember thinking that perhaps I was doing something to bring this on myself. Deep down inside maybe the reason I didn't do more to try to stop it was because, wrong or not, I began to believe that this was the way I really was meant to be.​

You see the path of bondage above, now read the rest to see the glorious deliverance of Dandridge Green, through Jesus Christ HERE<----CLICK
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[calvins96]

P.S. I have read over my own post and not sure it makes any sense whatsoever, but I'm to tired to try and fix it. If it makes no sense to you either just ignore it and I will look it over after church.

Good night!

Yes...it made sense. I agree with you, but I still hold to what many on here say. Talking the talk is very easy...WALKING the talk is an entirely different thing. You can clearly read the hate in some of the posts here..yes, towards the homosexual as well as homosexuality. There have even been posts here that say Matthew Shephard got what he had coming to him. That is most indeed hating the person. Look at the pictures that were posted during his funeral. Burn in hell...aids is gods' way of saying death to homosexuals, etc... You can't say that doesn't happen..it does. Sure, it is the fringe..absolutely..but some of that fringe is very well represented on this board.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Yes...it made sense. I agree with you, but I still hold to what many on here say. Talking the talk is very easy...WALKING the talk is an entirely different thing. You can clearly read the hate in some of the posts here..yes, towards the homosexual as well as homosexuality. There have even been posts here that say Matthew Shephard got what he had coming to him. That is most indeed hating the person. Look at the pictures that were posted during his funeral. Burn in hell...aids is gods' way of saying death to homosexuals, etc... You can't say that doesn't happen..it does. Sure, it is the fringe..absolutely..but some of that fringe is very well represented on this board.

To be quite honest there are several on here that, at times, sound quite hateful. There are some on both sides of this subject, that at times I would like to make go to their rooms without supper. It's the mother in me I guess, but sometimes people need to take a deep breath before speaking and or typing. They need to say a prayer and ask the Lord to speak through them as compared to letting emotions speak, but we all are not perfect and so....................Thank goodness our Lord is a forgiving God.

I thought I had read all the post about Matthew Shephard, but must not of, because I don't remember anyone saying he got what he deserved. I will have to go back and look at that again.

I am not saying that those things don't happen. I live in Kansas not the moon, and we have our nut up in Topeka or is it KC that runs around to funerals with their signs and screamings. I live just 20 minutes from a school where a homosexual young man wore a shirt to school stating his lifestyle. He was sent home to change because the school had a dress code against anyone wearing a shirt with words of any kind on them. Well the ACLU got into it and was making it a pick on the homosexual thing, when the rule had been on the books for years. It had nothing to do with what the shirt said, but that no one could wear clothes with words on them. Well anyhow that so called preacher came down with his members/family, and their hate signs and screamings. Made national news and everything. Most Christians don't act that way, and it is a shame that all Christians are judged by his actions by some people. He gives the devil alot of stuff to use to keep people from coming to the Lord.

I don't believe I have seen anyone say they want anyone else to burn in hell. I will admit I don't read all the post on every thread, so I can only say I haven't read that. It is very sad if that is the case, because God doesn't want anyone to perish and we shouldn't either.

I will admit that I fear that if repentence from homosexuality isn't done, that that means that person will not inherit the Kingdom of God. In fact I have even started threads asking if someone could show me scriptures to study that would prove or disprove this fear I have. I don't post on any thread saying or meaning to say that someone needs to or should go to hell, and anyone that does should remember how the Bible says that how we judge others we will be judged. We are to judge with righteous judgement.

I have said this on many other threads when things start getting out of hand. Please ask the person if what you think their post is saying, is really what they meant for it to say. I have been misunderstood before, and have misunderstood peoples typed words before. You can't always really feel the emotions of a person by their typed word, and so ask before just assuming it, is best all the way around. IMHO.

 

[HaloHope]

To be quite honest there are several on here that, at times, sound quite hateful. There are some on both sides of this subject, that at times I would like to make go to their rooms without supper. It's the mother in me I guess, but sometimes people need to take a deep breath before speaking and or typing. They need to say a prayer and ask the Lord to speak through them as compared to letting emotions speak, but we all are not perfect and so....................Thank goodness our Lord is a forgiving God.

I thought I had read all the post about Matthew Shephard, but must not of, because I don't remember anyone saying he got what he deserved. I will have to go back and look at that again.

I am not saying that those things don't happen. I live in Kansas not the moon, and we have our nut up in Topeka or is it KC that runs around to funerals with their signs and screamings. I live just 20 minutes from a school where a homosexual young man wore a shirt to school stating his lifestyle. He was sent home to change because the school had a dress code against anyone wearing a shirt with words of any kind on them. Well the ACLU got into it and was making it a pick on the homosexual thing, when the rule had been on the books for years. It had nothing to do with what the shirt said, but that no one could wear clothes with words on them. Well anyhow that so called preacher came down with his members/family, and their hate signs and screamings. Made national news and everything. Most Christians don't act that way, and it is a shame that all Christians are judged by his actions by some people. He gives the devil alot of stuff to use to keep people from coming to the Lord.

I don't believe I have seen anyone say they want anyone else to burn in hell. I will admit I don't read all the post on every thread, so I can only say I haven't read that. It is very sad if that is the case, because God doesn't want anyone to perish and we shouldn't either.

I will admit that I fear that if repentence from homosexuality isn't done, that that means that person will not inherit the Kingdom of God. In fact I have even started threads asking if someone could show me scriptures to study that would prove or disprove this fear I have. I don't post on any thread saying or meaning to say that someone needs to or should go to hell, and anyone that does should remember how the Bible says that how we judge others we will be judged. We are to judge with righteous judgement.

I have said this on many other threads when things start getting out of hand. Please ask the person if what you think their post is saying, is really what they meant for it to say. I have been misunderstood before, and have misunderstood peoples typed words before. You can't always really feel the emotions of a person by their typed word, and so ask before just assuming it, is best all the way around. IMHO.

First off, may I say I really liked this post. Put your opinion across very well.

I suppose I can understand that you genuinally concerned for the souls of gay people as you believe it to be a sin. As a result I can even (partly) see why you are opposed to gay unions (I can see why you would vote against them, I just firmly believe that anything vaugely theocratic being opposed on anyone is wrong and against the free will God has given us. Im not going to debate you on this as I doubt either of us is going to change their opinion). But I think one think you do need to understand is why some of your posts have got bad reactions from people like myself.

You may think that being judgemental on those who believe homosexuality isn't a sin and have a love for the member of the same gender is wrong. Thats great, I can accept that no problem. The times when I do tend to get be annoyed by posts is when to me they come across as judgemental or offensive, now this could at least in part be myself overreacting or reading something wrong (as you say yourself it happens online). However one poster who is believes homosexuality to be wrong in particular has managed to get their view across, politely, even in a loving manner and you know what I actually listened more and thought about what was said. Now it hasnt stopped me being gay, but it was a wonderful post full of Christian love that I feel plenty of peoples posts here including my own at times, are very lacking.

 

[RMDY]

"Yet the Lord longs to be gracious to you;
he rises to show you compassion.
For the Lord is a God of justice.
Blessed are those who wait for him." Isaiah 30:18

"For the maker is your husband---
the Lord Almighty is his name---
the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer;
he is called the God of all the earth.
The Lord will call you back
as if you were a wife deserted and
distressed in spirit---
a wife who married young,
only to be rejected" Isaiah 54:5-6

 

[RMDY]

Homosexuality is an orientation for most, that endures even with the best of intentions.

A lot of lifestyles can be an orientation for most, that endures even with the best of intentions, and because of this, people turn away from God and reject truth and choose to follow the ways of the world rather than the ways of the Spirit. God is our new master and we become his slaves since God becomes our new master. He longs to save us, but a slave doesn't say to his new master, "thank you for freeing me from my old ways, but I don't like yours and am going to believe what I want to believe and not listen to you---but thank you for eternal life."

We are God's servants, living Holy lives as a form of worship to Him, with circumcised hearts and acting in love for God and others.

That includes being
Meek: Showing patience and humility; gentle. Easily imposed on; submissive.

Humble:Marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful. Showing deferential or submissive respect: a humble apology.
Low in rank, quality, or station; unpretentious or lowly: a humble cottage.

 

[savedandhappy1]

First off, may I say I really liked this post. Put your opinion across very well.

I suppose I can understand that you genuinally concerned for the souls of gay people as you believe it to be a sin. As a result I can even (partly) see why you are opposed to gay unions (I can see why you would vote against them, I just firmly believe that anything vaugely theocratic being opposed on anyone is wrong and against the free will God has given us. Im not going to debate you on this as I doubt either of us is going to change their opinion). But I think one think you do need to understand is why some of your posts have got bad reactions from people like myself.

You may think that being judgemental on those who believe homosexuality isn't a sin and have a love for the member of the same gender is wrong. Thats great, I can accept that no problem. The times when I do tend to get be annoyed by posts is when to me they come across as judgemental or offensive, now this could at least in part be myself overreacting or reading something wrong (as you say yourself it happens online). However one poster who is believes homosexuality to be wrong in particular has managed to get their view across, politely, even in a loving manner and you know what I actually listened more and thought about what was said. Now it hasnt stopped me being gay, but it was a wonderful post full of Christian love that I feel plenty of peoples posts here including my own at times, are very lacking.

Thank You!!

Yes, you are probably right saying that we will not change each others minds on is subject. All I can do is state what I believe is the truth, and then leave it to the Lord.

One of the reasons I continue to post on this subject is for those who read but do not post, for whatever reason. I think both sides should be told, and should be told in love. Which as we both have stated doesn't happen with all posts, so I just want all points on this subject to be out there for consideration/prayer.

I have said this before, but feel it is worth repeanting. "We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". That doesn't mean we should stop trying not to sin, but just that until we receive our new body, and mind we will not be perfect.

That shouldn't stop us from trying to help others who are sinning also. Sometimes someone else, a person from the outside looking in, can see things that we can't see about ourselves. To me it isn't love to close our eyes to sin no matter who is doing the sin. The Bible says we are to make disciples and go to all people with the gospel. To me that means all the scriptures not just the Love of God scriptures.

We should never think our sins aren't as bad as others, because God doesn't put degrees on sin. He even says in the Bible that if you commit one sin it is just like committing them all. I can look that scripture up if you need me to.

Again Thank You!

Have a good day.

 

[HaloHope]

Thank You!!

Yes, you are probably right saying that we will not change each others minds on is subject. All I can do is state what I believe is the truth, and then leave it to the Lord.

One of the reasons I continue to post on this subject is for those who read but do not post, for whatever reason. I think both sides should be told, and should be told in love. Which as we both have stated doesn't happen with all posts, so I just want all points on this subject to be out there for consideration/prayer.

I have said this before, but feel it is worth repeanting. "We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". That doesn't mean we should stop trying not to sin, but just that until we receive our new body, and mind we will not be perfect.

That shouldn't stop us from trying to help others who are sinning also. Sometimes someone else, a person from the outside looking in, can see things that we can't see about ourselves. To me it isn't love to close our eyes to sin no matter who is doing the sin. The Bible says we are to make disciples and go to all people with the gospel. To me that means all the scriptures not just the Love of God scriptures.

We should never think our sins aren't as bad as others, because God doesn't put degrees on sin. He even says in the Bible that if you commit one sin it is just like committing them all. I can look that scripture up if you need me to.

Again Thank You!

Have a good day.

In a rather ironic way, I think we are both attempting to do the same thing. Bring more people to God. Just with completely different viewpoints and opinions on what that entails.

Anyway there isn't much else I can say on this post, so thank you once again for a civil response.

 

[MrPirate]

Wrong as usual! The diffrence is there is a before and after witness, in their lives.

The difference is that those claiming to have been abducted by UFO’s actually make concrete claims. And as such actually makes their testimony superior to those of “ex-gays”

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]The difference is that those claiming to have been abducted by UFO’s actually make concrete claims. And as such actually makes their testimony superior to those of “ex-gays”[/SIZE]

You claim that wild assertions without a shred of evidence are "concrete" and "superior." Give me a hit of whatever you are toking.

 

[MrPirate]

You claim that wild assertions without a shred of evidence are "concrete" and "superior." Give me a hit of whatever you are toking.

Wild assertions with actual evidence…that describes ex-gay ministries perfectly.

 

[Dorothea]

Interesting post. I will try and explain where I myself stand on the whole "ex-gay" issue.

Firstly there are many human sexualities out there. There are people who are homosexual, bisexual, hetrosexual, asexual, pansexual etc..


Now these ex-gays in my opinion fall into two camps.

You get ex-gays that aren't really "ex-gays" because they were bi-sexual in the first place and have met someone of the opposite gender that they love and enjoy romantic love with. Thats fine, thats great, I am happy for them. They are bi-sexual still though, not straight, whatever they may tell themselves. This is something that happens all the time:- a woman whos been with a woman might find a man she is attracted to. A man whos been with a man may find a woman hes attracted to. Its when they claim it was down to God that they changed, and make a moral cause out of it that I object. Your happy! Great! Just dont try and change me or impose what youve done on others. The person is not "ex-gay" they are bi.

Then you get the "ex-gays" whove been "living a sinful lifestyle" are now "cured" but actually arent in a hetrosexual relationship. These people arent "cured" they are very likely to still be gay, but have been bullied by lunatic fringe and cult groups like Exodus International into thinking they are "cured". When instead all they get in return is starving themselves from the love they could have had from someone of the same gender. I truly pity these people. Again id be much more tolerant of these people who I believe may well suffer irreprebale psychological damage if they shut up about being cured by God. God didnt cure them. He dosent need too cure anyone of homosexuality. They have just deluded themselves or been deluded into lonliness.

But despite how sad I think it can be for the second type of "ex-gay" here. If they are truly happy, who am I to judge? If people are happy then thats good and totally fine by me, I would never harass someone who claims to be cured of homosexuality unless they were first harassing me to cure me of it too.

Live and let live, just leave me to my relationship and I . shall leave you to your life. Is the sentiment I feel towards ex-gay people.

I'm new pretty much to this site, especially this forum, so bear with me.

I am one of those that believes homosexuality is a sin. I love the sinner, but I don't agree or condone their living that type of lifestyle. IMO, it falls under the carnal desires that are sins. What I want to make sure people understand is that this sin - homosexuality - is a sin among many other sins. It's not just this one sin. There are many out there. I do believe people can be changed by the Holy Spirit if one has struggled and prayed and toiled at trying to change. I will say, it is like any sin that you're struggling with....it takes much devotion, dedication, focus, lots and lots of prayer, and the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit to help one change. I am happy for those who were able to do so. I understand that it wasn't or isn't easy.

I don't think it's right to get on people for changing and saying they weren't really gay. How would those people know if that person was or was not really gay, is the first question, and secondly, since I don't believe people are born gay, I do believe the change can and does happen.

Having said that, gays/lesbians are no different than we, heteros, are. They are children of God. Each has his/her own cross to bear in this life and journey through life we take. It all comes down to how much we work at following Christ and working towards being like Him and following his Word(s). JMO.

 

[HaloHope]

I'm new pretty much to this site, especially this forum, so bear with me.

I am one of those that believes homosexuality is a sin. I love the sinner, but I don't agree or condone their living that type of lifestyle. IMO, it falls under the carnal desires that are sins. What I want to make sure people understand is that this sin - homosexuality - is a sin among many other sins. It's not just this one sin. There are many out there. I do believe people can be changed by the Holy Spirit if one has struggled and prayed and toiled at trying to change. I will say, it is like any sin that you're struggling with....it takes much devotion, dedication, focus, lots and lots of prayer, and the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit to help one change. I am happy for those who were able to do so. I understand that it wasn't or isn't easy.

I don't think it's right to get on people for changing and saying they weren't really gay. How would those people know if that person was or was not really gay, is the first question, and secondly, since I don't believe people are born gay, I do believe the change can and does happen.

Having said that, gays/lesbians are no different than we, heteros, are. They are children of God. Each has his/her own cross to bear in this life and journey through life we take. It all comes down to how much we work at following Christ and working towards being like Him and following his Word(s). JMO.

Hi Welcome

We have different views here obviously, and it's not something we are likely to change each others opinion on.

I believe sexuality (straight, gay, bi, whatever) is innate to a person and something that can never be changed. As someone who is gay and knows more gay people than straight people as friends, I feel I know for sure that homosexuality is innate, not a choice (obviously you choose to be intimate with someone but im talking about the actual attraction here). No gay guy I know would ever look at a woman, no gay girl I know would ever look at a man. They are gay not bi.

But all this is rather mute to me anyway as I dont believe homosexuality is a sin so I dont believe Jesus needs to change any gay peoples sexuality, nor do I believe he does. No need to change how a person is made, if he did the making to begin with.

 

[HaloHope]

Just another quick post:- to make it simpler I thought I would post how I feel the "ex-gay" process works for some people who claim they used to be gay. There is obviously the situation where a person born gay is brainwashed or bullied too, but I cant cover every outcome here. Also please note I am not condoing "sleeping around" in the information below, I think its immoral but Im just using it as part of a scenario.

1) person is born bi-sexual, when they grow up and start to get their first sexual attractions they feel are for a member the same sex

2) person enters into a relationship with a person of the same sex OR sleeps around with lots of members of the same sex

3) now this is a step where several things can happen.
- If the bi person is in a relationship it may end and the next person they fall for is of the opposite sex. Same goes for the person sleeping around, they may find someone of the opposite sex they are attracted to and want to stay with permenantly.
- Bi-person in either situation encounters some wacko group like exodus international or some fundamentalist Christians who bully or brainwash them into leaving their partner.

4) Person who has ended up with member of the opposite sex, or has been brainwashed into leaving their partner for some inexplicable reason (perhaps they are glad their "loving" parents will finally have them back in the house) become complete homophobes themselves, proclaim their "cured" and try and "cure" other people. Say things like "Im glad I left that lifestyle" etc.. when in truth they were totally happy at the time. Every time another bi-sexual person finds a partner of the opposite sex it is "proclaimed as a triumph for Jesus" or something similar.

The End

 

[Dorothea]

Hi Welcome

We have different views here obviously, and it's not something we are likely to change each others opinion on.

I believe sexuality (straight, gay, bi, whatever) is innate to a person and something that can never be changed. As someone who is gay and knows more gay people than straight people as friends, I feel I know for sure that homosexuality is innate, not a choice (obviously you choose to be intimate with someone but im talking about the actual attraction here). No gay guy I know would ever look at a woman, no gay girl I know would ever look at a man. They are gay not bi.

But all this is rather mute to me anyway as I dont believe homosexuality is a sin so I dont believe Jesus needs to change any gay peoples sexuality, nor do I believe he does. No need to change how a person is made, if he did the making to begin with.

I appreciate your warm welcome and courteous opinion Halo. You are right. We aren't going to change our opinions on this matter, LOL, but then again, I wouldn't think anybody would expect that to happen.

 

[Dorothea]

Halo, I know that you said you don't believe God thinks homosexuality is a sin, and so forth. I was just wondering how it is that you think God would create gay people. Wouldn't that be contradicting his plan of procreation? What would be the purpose? Do you have any idea?

 

[HaloHope]

Halo, I know that you said you don't believe God thinks homosexuality is a sin, and so forth. I was just wondering how it is that you think God would create gay people. Wouldn't that be contradicting his plan of procreation? What would be the purpose? Do you have any idea?

Why would God create hetrosexual people who are sterile?
Why would God bless hetrosexual couples who choose not to have children?

Personally? I believe that God implemented some kind of population control in humans in the form of homosexuality. Its present in a great many species on earth too so I would say it was consistant with the natural order of things.

I think God is a big fan of diversity among his children, if he wasn't he wouldnt have made us all unique. Homosexuality is just a trait in some people that keeps us from all being the same, which is another possible reason I feel that God has for creating some of his children gay.

 

[Dorothea]

Why would God create hetrosexual people who are sterile?
Why would God bless hetrosexual couples who choose not to have children?

Personally? I believe that God implemented some kind of population control in humans in the form of homosexuality. Its present in a great many species on earth too so I would say it was consistant with the natural order of things.

I think God is a big fan of diversity among his children, if he wasn't he wouldnt have made us all unique. Homosexuality is just a trait in some people that keeps us from all being the same, which is another possible reason I feel that God has for creating some of his children gay.

How do you think people were born sterile? You think they were born that way? Some type of genetic error in their make up? Or was it something environmental maybe that caused them to become sterile over time? Do we really know?

Why would God bless or not bless heterosexual couples who choose not to have children? He blesses those who don't have children? Or is that their free will given to them and every human by God?

Population control? Do you recall anywhere where God had pointed out that he wanted his children, husband and wives to minimize the amount of offspring they have? I haven't ever read that in the Bible. That sounds like a human interpretation of something....I'm not sure where you got that from to come about with that decision or view.

I have heard about this idea that it is in the animal kingdom. I have read up on some scientist's records on animals, primates, and other such mammals and animals. It read mostly that there was an urge to have sexual acts with the same sex only because at times they found it fun, not because they actually did that on a regular basis and took on a same-gender partner for life.

As far as diversity. I do agree that God made us all unique and instilled in us all free will. However, I believe He does hope that through our free will, choose to follow He and His Son on our journey in this life.

 

[calvins96]

How do you think people were born sterile?
Absolutely people are born sterile. At the same time, there are those that perhaps are sterile by environmental factors, or by way of disease, etc.. You think they were born that way? Some type of genetic error in their make up?
It is not a genetic "error". It is what it is. What about nuns, priests, those that chose celibate lives or abstain that will not have children..ever...are they not blessed by God..the Almighty that they dedicated their lives too?

Or was it something environmental maybe that caused them to become sterile over time? Do we really know?
Yes, we DO know. To say "really" know, you sound as if you're afraid to say that b/c you can't go to the bible and get an exact answer, or the answer you want. That is the problem with being a literalist.

Why would God bless or not bless heterosexual couples who choose not to have children? He blesses those who don't have children? Or is that their free will given to them and every human by God?
See my comment above. There are MANY Christian orders that forbid marriage, and children. It is a calling that many women and men get to serve God as people of the church whether be it nuns, priests, monks, etc.. Look at the entire foundation of the Catholic Church. Thousands of years living and dying for God, and being given a gift by God called celibacy. They are certainly blessed by God. He most certainly blesses even those married without children. Why would he not? He himself was never even married nor had children.

Population control? Do you recall anywhere where God had pointed out that he wanted his children, husband and wives to minimize the amount of offspring they have?
And along those same lines do you think God would want families driven into poverty with 15 children? not to mention the impacts to a woman's health with having that many children? Again, this is the issue with literalists. No where in the bible does it talk about population simply because it was 2000+ years ago and they weren't faced with the 30 billion people on the planet today.

I haven't ever read that in the Bible.

I haven't read about PCs in the bible either, or cars, or phones, or air conditioning nor gasoline, nor antibiotics, etc... so does that mean I have to pretend they don't exist or does that mean I can't use them b/c the bible didn't tell me too? Again, the continuing issue of a literalist.


That sounds like a human interpretation of something....I'm not sure where you got that from to come about with that decision or view.

Sure..human interreptation. Didn't God make us humans? Didn't he give us a brain? Is our brain not to use? is our brain not to be used to reason? learn? have wisdom? educate? Is our brain not what differentiates us from the rest of life on earth?

I have heard about this idea that it is in the animal kingdom. I have read up on some scientist's records on animals, primates, and other such mammals and animals. It read mostly that there was an urge to have sexual acts with the same sex only because at times they found it fun, not because they actually did that on a regular basis and took on a same-gender partner for life.

Not an animal, nor is it of interst to me what they do in the animal kingdom. Survival of the fittest I suppose ....

As far as diversity. I do agree that God made us all unique and instilled in us all free will. However, I believe He does hope that through our free will, choose to follow He and His Son on our journey in this life.

Absolutely...and that we use our brains that he gave us.

 

[MrPirate]

I am one of those that believes homosexuality is a sin. I love the sinner, but I don't agree or condone their living that type of lifestyle.

What “lifestyle” are you talking about exactly?

IMO, it falls under the carnal desires that are sins. What I want to make sure people understand is that this sin - homosexuality - is a sin among many other sins. It's not just this one sin. There are many out there.

I notice you are married. Is you marriage based on “carnal desires”? or on something else?

(I will assume you will deny that your marriage is founded solely on lust) leading to the question of why do you or would you assume that the relationships and marriages of gays and lesbians are based just on “carnal desires” why do you view your marriage as something superior to theirs?

I do believe people can be changed by the Holy Spirit if one has struggled and prayed and toiled at trying to change. I will say, it is like any sin that you're struggling with....it takes much devotion, dedication, focus, lots and lots of prayer, and the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit to help one change. I am happy for those who were able to do so. I understand that it wasn't or isn't easy.

That is your belief. However such people don’t actually seem to exist. Why is that?

I don't think it's right to get on people for changing and saying they weren't really gay. How would those people know if that person was or was not really gay, is the first question, and secondly, since I don't believe people are born gay, I do believe the change can and does happen.


Having said that, gays/lesbians are no different than we, heteros, are. They are children of God. Each has his/her own cross to bear in this life and journey through life we take. It all comes down to how much we work at following Christ and working towards being like Him and following his Word(s). JMO.

Actually it is the statements and the spin doctoring that is so very common among “ex-gays” that says that. try reading the “testimonies” and judge for yourself. Do ANY of them ever claim to have been homosexual (Kinsey scale 6) and are not completely heterosexual (Kinsey scale 0)? No. what is stated are the same meaningless phrases time and again “left the homosexual lifestyle” is a meaningless phrase that says absolutely nothing.