Ex-Gays

[savedandhappy1]

I remember back in school studing how if an indian and a white person were married how they weren't excepted in the indian community or the white community, for along time.

Then I remember studing and witnessing how bad people were treated if one was white and one was black.

The children in both examples where really treated bad, because the white community didn't consider them white and the indian or black communities didn't consider them indian or black.

Today we have the ex-gays who are called liars and other names beside being told they weren't really homosexual if they changed, by the gay community. Which you would think would be the most understanding and the less likely to discriminate, but sadly this isn't true.

Then we turn to the straight community, which say they believe people can be changed from homosexuality to hetrosexuality, but who shun or still just plainly will not accept those who profess to having been gay. Sorry, people you can't have it both ways, either they can be changed or they can't, and frankly if they still profess to being gay or if they profess that they have been delivered from that lifestyle we still must love them as God/Christ does.

Those of us who believe homosexuality is a sin are called haters, bigots, etc. by some of the pro-gay folks and the homosexuals. We are told we are prejudice and are discriminating aganist them if we say we won't vote for them to be able to get married, etc.

Then I look at post on this site and articles on the web, about people who say they have been changed by the Lord, and we have some of the pro-gay folks and the homosexuals attacking them with all kinds of names and accustions.

I guess I am wondering why? Or maybe I am just wanting to point out how bad it is to be ex-gay in the USA.

I wonder if anyone has stats on how many ex-gays have tried or committed suicide? I think I will go do some research on that.

Is this just another example about how history repeats itself, and how sadly some lessons are never learned?

 

[HaloHope]

I remember back in school studing how if an indian and a white person were married how they weren't excepted in the indian community or the white community, for along time.

Then I remember studing and witnessing how bad people were treated if one was white and one was black.

The children in both examples where really treated bad, because the white community didn't consider them white and the indian or black communities didn't consider them indian or black.

Today we have the ex-gays who are called liars and other names beside being told they weren't really homosexual if they changed, by the gay community. Which you would think would be the most understanding and the less likely to discriminate, but sadly this isn't true.

Then we turn to the straight community, which say they believe people can be changed from homosexuality to hetrosexuality, but who shun or still just plainly will not accept those who profess to having been gay. Sorry, people you can't have it both ways, either they can be changed or they can't, and frankly if they still profess to being gay or if they profess that they have been delivered from that lifestyle we still must love them as God/Christ does.

Those of us who believe homosexuality is a sin are called haters, bigots, etc. by some of the pro-gay folks and the homosexuals. We are told we are prejudice and are discriminating aganist them if we say we won't vote for them to be able to get married, etc.

Then I look at post on this site and articles on the web, about people who say they have been changed by the Lord, and we have some of the pro-gay folks and the homosexuals attacking them with all kinds of names and accustions.

I guess I am wondering why? Or maybe I am just wanting to point out how bad it is to be ex-gay in the USA.

I wonder if anyone has stats on how many ex-gays have tried or committed suicide? I think I will go do some research on that.

Is this just another example about how history repeats itself, and how sadly some lessons are never learned?

Interesting post. I will try and explain where I myself stand on the whole "ex-gay" issue.

Firstly there are many human sexualities out there. There are people who are homosexual, bisexual, hetrosexual, asexual, pansexual etc..


Now these ex-gays in my opinion fall into two camps.

You get ex-gays that aren't really "ex-gays" because they were bi-sexual in the first place and have met someone of the opposite gender that they love and enjoy romantic love with. Thats fine, thats great, I am happy for them. They are bi-sexual still though, not straight, whatever they may tell themselves. This is something that happens all the time:- a woman whos been with a woman might find a man she is attracted to. A man whos been with a man may find a woman hes attracted to. Its when they claim it was down to God that they changed, and make a moral cause out of it that I object. Your happy! Great! Just dont try and change me or impose what youve done on others. The person is not "ex-gay" they are bi.

Then you get the "ex-gays" whove been "living a sinful lifestyle" are now "cured" but actually arent in a hetrosexual relationship. These people arent "cured" they are very likely to still be gay, but have been bullied by lunatic fringe and cult groups like Exodus International into thinking they are "cured". When instead all they get in return is starving themselves from the love they could have had from someone of the same gender. I truly pity these people. Again id be much more tolerant of these people who I believe may well suffer irreprebale psychological damage if they shut up about being cured by God. God didnt cure them. He dosent need too cure anyone of homosexuality. They have just deluded themselves or been deluded into lonliness.

But despite how sad I think it can be for the second type of "ex-gay" here. If they are truly happy, who am I to judge? If people are happy then thats good and totally fine by me, I would never harass someone who claims to be cured of homosexuality unless they were first harassing me to cure me of it too.

Live and let live, just leave me to my relationship and I . shall leave you to your life. Is the sentiment I feel towards ex-gay people.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Interesting post. I will try and explain where I myself stand on the whole "ex-gay" issue.

Firstly there are many human sexualities out there. There are people who are homosexual, bisexual, hetrosexual, asexual, pansexual etc..


Now these ex-gays in my opinion fall into two camps.

You get ex-gays that aren't really "ex-gays" because they were bi-sexual in the first place and have met someone of the opposite gender that they love and enjoy romantic love with. Thats fine, thats great, I am happy for them. They are bi-sexual still though, not straight, whatever they may tell themselves. This is something that happens all the time:- a woman whos been with a woman might find a man she is attracted to. A man whos been with a man may find a woman hes attracted to. Its when they claim it was down to God that they changed, and make a moral cause out of it that I object. Your happy! Great! Just dont try and change me or impose what youve done on others. The person is not "ex-gay" they are bi.

Then you get the "ex-gays" whove been "living a sinful lifestyle" are now "cured" but actually arent in a hetrosexual relationship. These people arent "cured" they are very likely to still be gay, but have been bullied by lunatic fringe and cult groups like Exodus International into thinking they are "cured". When instead all they get in return is starving themselves from the love they could have had from someone of the same gender. I truly pity these people. Again id be much more tolerant of these people who I believe may well suffer irreprebale psychological damage if they shut up about being cured by God. God didnt cure them. He dosent need too cure anyone of homosexuality. They have just deluded themselves or been deluded into lonliness.

But despite how sad I think it can be for the second type of "ex-gay" here. If they are truly happy, who am I to judge? If people are happy then thats good and totally fine by me, I would never harass someone who claims to be cured of homosexuality unless they were first harassing me to cure me of it too.

Live and let live, just leave me to my relationship and I . shall leave you to your life. Is the sentiment I feel towards ex-gay people.

It is ok for a homosexual to come out of the closet, but if you are an ex-gay shut up, because you are just pressured into saying you are changed, deluded, lying, or never were a true homosexual.

You might want to re-read your own post, and then try telling me again that you believe live and let live.

 

[HaloHope]

It is ok for a homosexual to come out of the closet, but if you are an ex-gay shut up, because you are just pressured into saying you are changed, deluded, lying, or never were a true homosexual.

You might want to re-read your own post, and then try telling me again that you believe live and let live.

There is a difference between someone coming out as gay (although to be fair, I don't think a big deal needs to be made about coming out of the closet, unless someone has spent a long, long time coming to terms with it) and saying your sexuality has changed. It is my view that sexuality as something innate dosent change. Someone who has had a gay relationship and a straight relationship and has enjoyed them on some form of sexual level is bi-sexual its a simple fact. Someone who has had a relationship with someone of the same gender and disliked it is straight. This does not make them an ex-gay, just as it does not make a gay person whos been in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex an ex-straight. In that case the people involved would be straight and gay. Nothing else.

I do firmly believe live and let live. Someone who believes themselves to be cured is fully entitled to believe that if it makes them happy (if they are in a happy relationship then thats great). I am not going to go out stopping people doing what they want to do, I am certainly not going to find ex-gays and shout abuse at them.

The ONLY time Im going to actually lose my temper with someone who is ex-gay is when they insist on telling me that I can be "cured" too, make a big flap about it on the media to ENFORCE prejudice against gay people (not something that really happens here in the UK in either case to be fair, as ive never encountered an ex-gay movement other than online). It especially annoys me when you get the people who say "Yeh, I was living the homosexual lifestyle, a different partner every night, hard drugs all the time.. BUT NOW IM CURED!" . That isnt the homosexual lifestyle its a promiscuous idiotic lifestyle some homosexuals and hetrosexuals have and is unrelated to their sexuality.

I feel sadness and pity for those who are just forcing themselves to be celibate because theyve been convinced its the right thing to do rather than because they are enjoying it. The sadness I feel does cause me to be angry at the cultish organisations that make people feel this way.

I guess what im trying to say is people can tell themselves they are ex-gay if they want. Its not my place to call them liars. I only take issue when it starts to invade on my life, or the life of people close to me. I may have feelings on the matter but its not something Im going to take a personal vendetta against.

 

[RMDY]

I almost turned to homosexuality as a result of my depressions when I was a teenager, but this was before I tasted the mercy and forgiveness of Christ in a church and the love I received from it.

Just thinking back.....
I suffered greatly in my teenager years....
you have no idea, I even contemplated suicide a few times and wondered if anyone would care....
I would always fight with my family, have problem with people at school, the least liked person in elementary and high school, bullied, slandered, I had almost no friends at all...
None of you have no idea what suffering I endured before...
How would you feel if someone wrongly accused you for sexual assault, and the day of judgement was on your highschool prom and not knowing for two years what was going to happen to you and not being able to tell anyone, even though you didn't assault anyone sexually.....
I nearly failed high school because of depression I was going through....
I had anger problems, to the point where I raged and at one point, was dragged away by police by hand and foot to a mental hospital to see if I had mental problems...
Or for the matter, having ADHD and living with that...
Losing your best friend....went through girlfriend troubles....you have no idea....
I Know what depression is like.
I almost ran away as a result of it but thank God I decided to go to the church that one day, and thank God I did, otherwise I would probably be on the street on drugs and in the domain of Satan.

I know what suffering is. I know what it means to be slandered, accused, having someone bear false witness against you, hated, unloved, not trusted, looked down upon.

I know how to show mercy on people, even on those who try to ruin my life and bear false witness against me. I know what it means to forgive others even if they don't deserve it, even if they don't ask for it.

I am not like what I was before, thanks to our Saviour and Lord, Jesus Christ.

I know what it means to suffer for the sake of a name. I suffered once because of my name. So I know how to endure suffering for the sake of Christ's.

There is more I could talk about, a lot more!

Homosexuality within a person can be cured through Jesus Christ. But with some people it is very difficult, even uncurable, and I understand this, but I believe homosexual passions and desires are something that someone should not pursue when they declare Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Just as some people find it too difficult to give up their hetrosexual lifestyle passions and desires, similarly goes for homosexuals. How many hetrosexuals out there do you think cannot give up womanizing, manizing and premarital sex? There are more people for that sort of thing than there are homosexuals who believe they were born to be like that. Same goes for hetrosexuals who believe it is normal to have premarital sex while unmarried, and to lust after women (or men in the case of a women), and a lifestyle of other hetrosexual behaviours.

- Rob

 

[savedandhappy1]

There is a difference between someone coming out as gay (although to be fair, I don't think a big deal needs to be made about coming out of the closet, unless someone has spent a long, long time coming to terms with it) and saying your sexuality has changed. It is my view that sexuality as something innate dosent change. Someone who has had a gay relationship and a straight relationship and has enjoyed them on some form of sexual level is bi-sexual its a simple fact. Someone who has had a relationship with someone of the same gender and disliked it is straight. This does not make them an ex-gay, just as it does not make a gay person whos been in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex an ex-straight. In that case the people involved would be straight and gay. Nothing else.

I do firmly believe live and let live. Someone who believes themselves to be cured is fully entitled to believe that if it makes them happy (if they are in a happy relationship then thats great). I am not going to go out stopping people doing what they want to do, I am certainly not going to find ex-gays and shout abuse at them.

The ONLY time Im going to actually lose my temper with someone who is ex-gay is when they insist on telling me that I can be "cured" too, make a big flap about it on the media to ENFORCE prejudice against gay people (not something that really happens here in the UK in either case to be fair, as ive never encountered an ex-gay movement other than online). It especially annoys me when you get the people who say "Yeh, I was living the homosexual lifestyle, a different partner every night, hard drugs all the time.. BUT NOW IM CURED!" . That isnt the homosexual lifestyle its a promiscuous idiotic lifestyle some homosexuals and hetrosexuals have and is unrelated to their sexuality.

I feel sadness and pity for those who are just forcing themselves to be celibate because theyve been convinced its the right thing to do rather than because they are enjoying it. The sadness I feel does cause me to be angry at the cultish organisations that make people feel this way.

I guess what im trying to say is people can tell themselves they are ex-gay if they want. Its not my place to call them liars. I only take issue when it starts to invade on my life, or the life of people close to me. I may have feelings on the matter but its not something Im going to take a personal vendetta against.

Let me tell what I see in your post.

If they want to believe that they are cured fine, even if it is a lie, I'm happy for them. They just better not say anything about it.

Its not my place to call them liars, even if I know that they weren't really homosexual if they try and tell me they aren't anymore.

Boy, it really makes me mad because people have convinced them that homosexuality is a sin. I know it can't be God that delivered them or told them that it was a sin, and so I know they are living a lie. So they better not be out in public saying they are changed, because I know they aren't and so they have no right saying that God changed them or that they now know that it is a sin to practice homosexuality.

I don't mean any of the above as an offense, even tho you will probably take it that way. It is just the way it appears to me in your post. Part of you wants to say you will be tolerant of ex-gays, and part of you is getting really upset because there is no way that you want to admit that a true homosexual can change and/or needs to.

I wish there was someway that you could step back and read your post as if they were someone elses, then maybe you would see that. I know that can't happen, because I have tried it with some of my own post, when I have been told something totally different than what I typed. Anyhow thanks for sharing.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I almost turned to homosexuality as a result of my depressions when I was a teenager, but this was before I tasted the mercy and forgiveness of Christ in a church and the love I received from it.

Just thinking back.....
I suffered greatly in my teenager years....
you have no idea, I even contemplated suicide a few times and wondered if anyone would care....
I would always fight with my family, have problem with people at school, the least liked person in elementary and high school, bullied, slandered, I had almost no friends at all...
None of you have no idea what suffering I endured before...
How would you feel if someone wrongly accused you for sexual assault, and the day of judgement was on your highschool prom and not knowing for two years what was going to happen to you and not being able to tell anyone, even though you didn't assault anyone sexually.....
I nearly failed high school because of depression I was going through....
I had anger problems, to the point where I raged and at one point, was dragged away by police by hand and foot to a mental hospital to see if I had mental problems...
Or for the matter, having ADHD and living with that...
Losing your best friend....went through girlfriend troubles....you have no idea....
I Know what depression is like.
I almost ran away as a result of it but thank God I decided to go to the church that one day, and thank God I did, otherwise I would probably be on the street on drugs and in the domain of Satan.

I know what suffering is. I know what it means to be slandered, accused, having someone bear false witness against you, hated, unloved, not trusted, looked down upon.

I know how to show mercy on people, even on those who try to ruin my life and bear false witness against me. I know what it means to forgive others even if they don't deserve it, even if they don't ask for it.

I am not like what I was before, thanks to our Saviour and Lord, Jesus Christ.

I know what it means to suffer for the sake of a name. I suffered once because of my name. So I know how to endure suffering for the sake of Christ's.

There is more I could talk about, a lot more!

Homosexuality within a person can be cured through Jesus Christ. But with some people it is very difficult, even uncurable, and I understand this, but I believe homosexual passions and desires are something that someone should not pursue when they declare Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Just as some people find it too difficult to give up their hetrosexual lifestyle passions and desires, similarly goes for homosexuals. How many hetrosexuals out there do you think cannot give up womanizing, manizing and premarital sex? There are more people for that sort of thing than there are homosexuals who believe they were born to be like that. Same goes for hetrosexuals who believe it is normal to have premarital sex while unmarried, and to lust after women (or men in the case of a women), and a lifestyle of other hetrosexual behaviours.

- Rob

we all have tales of woe, I have stories that would have your hair stand on edge . But I am not down with extolling about them with strangers. But the fact is, Go to any Gay internet forum/chat room. such as Yahoo and you will see the real exgay, It is all about struggle and deny. It is never about being straight. Most seem very lonley and long suffering. Now i have nothing against a little suffering "we don't go around pain, we go through it " But you believe God chose a large group out the population , to spend life in a constant state of suffering ? The reality is, behind the glossy veneer of a well manufactured exodus web site , is the stark reality that Most, if not all Gays, don't experience any real change. Walk up to one and ask them, you will find the answer is a exercise of mental gymnastics, all designed to deny the reality. Most will admit in private that they have not experienced any chan ge. yes some are succesful in the sense thsat they experience periodic celibact=y, marked by the occasional Hookup. But they will never be participants of a " real life " in which they will have Loved ones and a life partner. It is just not in the cards. Homosexuality is an orientation for most, that endures even with the best of intentions.

 

[calvins96]

.....Those of us who believe homosexuality is a sin are called haters, bigots, etc. by some of the pro-gay folks and the homosexuals. We are told we are prejudice and are discriminating aganist them if we say we won't vote for them to be able to get married, etc. .....

Unfortunately this can be true. For me, yes I lash out at people when they say things that are negative against homosexuals..because I am one. You can easily be against homosexuality BUT, that doesn't give you cart blanche to be a hater, and justify it with scripture. THAT is what seperates the two. There are plenty of people on these boards that clearly state their case, but yet do not cast judgement, do not condemn you, do not look down upon you. THAT is what is acceptable. Then, there are others, that will post with a hatred/anger/bigotry. This is NOT everyone that is against homosexuals...it is those that think they "know the truth" and will then go back to scripture, find what they can to suppor their anomisity, and then post it like that makes them acceptable. It does not. When people post on here, and I wont use names b/c I had my hand slapped already, they will say "you can not be my friend as God has said so"...or "you are to HATE those that wil not repent"...or "Matthew Shepard was responsible for being beaten and tied to a fence, etc"...that is not acceptable. it is not christianlike, it is not simply disagreeing with a sexuality issue..it is HATE...it is BIGOTRY..it is WRONG. Two very different things..I hope you can understand that.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Oh, I see now what you mean about showing compassion and love toward others.

First of all, not everyone receives an instant miracle. Some do, but for most it is a journey from the point that the light of truth turns on. If you know anything about the enemy of our souls, you would know that the last thing he wants is someone to be loosed from their bondages. He is going to come knocking on the door with temptations in our areas of weaknesses. That is why the Word of God tells us to get our armor on (Ephesians 6:11-20) and to submit ourselves FIRST thereunto God, THEN resist the devil and he will flee from us.

Some of you discredit testimonies of ex-gays because you don't see them hopping into bed committing fornication with the opposite sex.

As people have testified in this forum, some of them believe it is an actual part of them, so there is a death of that thing, and there is a grieving process, there is also a growth process. Besides being delivered of the veil that was once over their eyes that blinded them from the truth, they now have healing to do. Just like all of us, there are parts of ourselves that are not pleasing to God that we must crucify and it is not always a pleasure trip.

Jesus is the WORD OF GOD, and the Word of God IS a TWO-EDGED SWORD. The Sword of the Spirit CUTS the soul man from the spirit man. It divides the old thoughts and ways we "used to" live by, (or it should be used to or working on used to) from the TRUTH.

We cannot embrace Jesus without getting cut.
A Two-Edged Sword cuts you coming and going.

We cannot avoid the Sword of the Spirit, without avoiding Jesus, therefore, we cannot
get close to Jesus if we are avoiding His sword.

He said, "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Matthew 10:34-39
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


We get peace, when we surrender and begin walking in His ways, and crucify our own ways, when our ways oppose the Lord's ways. So that He can do a perfect work within us, and make us the NEW CREATURES we are supposed to be.

Listen kid, we all have tales of woe, I have stories that would have your hair stand on edge . But I am not down with extolling about them with strangers. But the fact is, Go to any Gay internet forum/chat room. such as Yahoo and you will see the real exgay, It is all about struggle and deny. It is never about being straight. Most seem very lonley and long suffering. Now i have nothing against a little suffering "we don't go around pain, we go through it " But you believe God chose a large group out the population , to spend life in a constant state of suffering ? The reality is, behind the glossy veneer of a well manufactured exodus web site , is the stark reality that Most, if not all Gays, don't experience any real change. Walk up to one and ask them, you will find the answer is a exercise of mental gymnastics, all designed to deny the reality. Most will admit in private that they have not experienced any chan ge. yes some are succesful in the sense thsat they experience periodic celibact=y, marked by the occasional Hookup. But they will never be participants of a " real life " in which they will have Loved ones and a life partner. It is just not in the cards. Homosexuality is an orientation for most, that endures even with the best of intentions.

 

[HaloHope]

I think the thing that makes me the most angry about the ex-gay movement (and yes its very un-Christian of me to get angry at all, but unfortunately its a subject that can get to me). Is things seen on forums on the internet as im fortunate enough (as said before) never to see a mention of "ex-gay movement" in reality.

The kind of posts where some poor teenager is asking for help. Their parents are anti-gay, theyve been builled by them into thinking its wrong and are desperate to change as they want to do the best for them. Or something similar along those lines.

Stuff like that wants me to scream. Yes it is judgemental for me to say so but I believe parents like that have no business being parents in the first place.

To me, personally being yourself is one of the most important things anyone can do. Its the most important thing you can do with your life on earth, be honest and true to yourself. The only time you lose that provalidge is when what you want directly hurts someone else (Im not saying "be yourself" if your a psychotic murderer for example). The ex-gay movement is directly opposed to being true to yourself (and in my mind, to God aswell) which is where my biggest issue with it comes from.

 

[savedandhappy1]

.....Those of us who believe homosexuality is a sin are called haters, bigots, etc. by some of the pro-gay folks and the homosexuals. We are told we are prejudice and are discriminating aganist them if we say we won't vote for them to be able to get married, etc. .....

Unfortunately this can be true. For me, yes I lash out at people when they say things that are negative against homosexuals..because I am one. You can easily be against homosexuality BUT, that doesn't give you cart blanche to be a hater, and justify it with scripture. THAT is what seperates the two. There are plenty of people on these boards that clearly state their case, but yet do not cast judgement, do not condemn you, do not look down upon you. THAT is what is acceptable. Then, there are others, that will post with a hatred/anger/bigotry. This is NOT everyone that is against homosexuals...it is those that think they "know the truth" and will then go back to scripture, find what they can to suppor their anomisity, and then post it like that makes them acceptable. It does not. When people post on here, and I wont use names b/c I had my hand slapped already, they will say "you can not be my friend as God has said so"...or "you are to HATE those that wil not repent"...or "Matthew Shepard was responsible for being beaten and tied to a fence, etc"...that is not acceptable. it is not christianlike, it is not simply disagreeing with a sexuality issue..it is HATE...it is BIGOTRY..it is WRONG. Two very different things..I hope you can understand that.

The part of your post is highlighted is what makes me angry.

This is not everyone that is aganist homosexuals...............

Many don't have anything against the person, which has been stated many times. There is a difference between homosexuality and a homosexual, but so many don't believe a person can hate the act without hating the person.

If they can't then there are many on this board alone who hate me because I am considered a conservative/fundmentalist.

See my point?

 

[savedandhappy1]

The part of your post is highlighted is what makes me angry.

This is not everyone that is aganist homosexuals...............

Many don't have anything against the person, which has been stated many times. There is a difference between homosexuality and a homosexual, but so many don't believe a person can hate the act without hating the person.

If they can't then there are many on this board alone who hate me because I am considered a conservative/fundmentalist.

See my point?

P.S. I have read over my own post and not sure it makes any sense whatsoever, but I'm to tired to try and fix it. If it makes no sense to you either just ignore it and I will look it over after church.

Good night!

 

[HaloHope]

The part of your post is highlighted is what makes me angry.

This is not everyone that is aganist homosexuals...............

Many don't have anything against the person, which has been stated many times. There is a difference between homosexuality and a homosexual, but so many don't believe a person can hate the act without hating the person.

If they can't then there are many on this board alone who hate me because I am considered a conservative/fundmentalist.

See my point?

I for one see your point.

You have to understand though that its very difficult to nessecerily believe these things.

Think hypothetically for a moment. Lets say that hetrosexuality is wrong, lets say that hetrosexuals are a minority and the larger proportion of the population are gay (this is hypothetical so please nobody start going on about reproduction or something). Gay marriage is the norm, but many hetrosexuals want to get married too but can't. Some parts of religious groups also claim that being hetrosexual is a sin.

Now as I have stated before I'm not a fan of hetrosexual sex. It grosses me out immensly so. However, was I in this world and in the majority would I vote against hetrosexual marriage? Were I part of the group that claimed hetrosexuality was wrong would I vote against hetrosexual marriage?

NO, I wouldnt. As even if I did have the "hate the sin love the sinner mentality". Restricting someones rights that have NO baring on how you live your life and making someone (or an entire group) unhappy due to my beliefs is reprehensible.

Thats why I personally have a hard job believing someone when they say "I love you but I hate your sin!" while at the same time trying to stop me being married to the person I love the very most in this world.

I hope that at least helps to show you why some of us have difficulty with the "hate the sin, love the sinner" statement. To me it seems that people do hate me, as theyre trying to take away one of the key sources of happiness in my life.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I for one see your point.

You have to understand though that its very difficult to nessecerily believe these things.

Think hypothetically for a moment. Lets say that hetrosexuality is wrong, lets say that hetrosexuals are a minority and the larger proportion of the population are gay (this is hypothetical so please nobody start going on about reproduction or something). Gay marriage is the norm, but many hetrosexuals want to get married too but can't. Some parts of religious groups also claim that being hetrosexual is a sin.

Now as I have stated before I'm not a fan of hetrosexual sex. It grosses me out immensly so. However, was I in this world and in the majority would I vote against hetrosexual marriage? Were I part of the group that claimed hetrosexuality was wrong would I vote against hetrosexual marriage?

NO, I wouldnt. As even if I did have the "hate the sin love the sinner mentality". Restricting someones rights that have NO baring on how you live your life and making someone (or an entire group) unhappy due to my beliefs is reprehensible.

Thats why I personally have a hard job believing someone when they say "I love you but I hate your sin!" while at the same time trying to stop me being married to the person I love the very most in this world.

I hope that at least helps to show you why some of us have difficulty with the "hate the sin, love the sinner" statement. To me it seems that people do hate me, as theyre trying to take away one of the key sources of happiness in my life.

Well if God made heterosexuality wrong I would vote against it and I would say it's a detestable sin...because I'm on God's side.

 

[MrPirate]

I remember back in school studing how if an indian and a white person were married how they weren't excepted in the indian community or the white community, for along time.

Then I remember studing and witnessing how bad people were treated if one was white and one was black.

The children in both examples where really treated bad, because the white community didn't consider them white and the indian or black communities didn't consider them indian or black.

Today we have the ex-gays who are called liars and other names beside being told they weren't really homosexual if they changed, by the gay community.

Actually at issue is the fact that ex—gays never quite say that they have changed sexual orientations. There ais a lot of weasel wording and spin doctoring with meaningless phrases like: “left the homosexual lifestyle”

Of bigger importance is that thirty-five years after the founding of the first ex-gay ministry these organizations have yet to provide any evidence of anyone actually changing sexual orientation.

Also these organizations have consistently failed to provide evidence that what they engage in is safe.

Which you would think would be the most understanding and the less likely to discriminate, but sadly this isn't true.

It is fascinating how on the one hand you denounce discrimination but then support the very same discrimination.

You are saying discrimination is bad…unless it is agiasnt a minority you don’t like…then it is good…and should that minority disagree with you…well those horrible people are discriminating against you…

Then we turn to the straight community, which say they believe people can be changed from homosexuality to hetrosexuality, but who shun or still just plainly will not accept those who profess to having been gay. Sorry, people you can't have it both ways, either they can be changed or they can't, and frankly if they still profess to being gay or if they profess that they have been delivered from that lifestyle we still must love them as God/Christ does.

And the evidence that people can change form homosexual (Kinsey scale 6) to heterosexual (Kinsey scale 0)? Well there isn’t any.

Those of us who believe homosexuality is a sin are called haters, bigots, etc. by some of the pro-gay folks and the homosexuals. We are told we are prejudice and are discriminating aganist them if we say we won't vote for them to be able to get married, etc.

And if what was said about homosexuals as said about blacks or Jews or the handicapped…if equal rights or protections were being advocated for Indians, for interracial couples the way they are for gays and lesbian…then that too would correctly be labeled as hate.
Just because hate is directed against an unpopular minority does magically turn what is being expressed into something good or just….it is still hatred

Then I look at post on this site and articles on the web, about people who say they have been changed by the Lord, and we have some of the pro-gay folks and the homosexuals attacking them with all kinds of names and accustions.

Can you be more specific?

I guess I am wondering why? Or maybe I am just wanting to point out how bad it is to be ex-gay in the USA.

see above

I wonder if anyone has stats on how many ex-gays have tried or committed suicide? I think I will go do some research on that.

Isn’t one too many?

Is this just another example about how history repeats itself, and how sadly some lessons are never learned?

Yes it is amazing hoe the arguments used to justify racism are recycled to use against homosexuals.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Actually at issue is the fact that ex—gays never quite say that they have changed sexual orientations. There ais a lot of weasel wording and spin doctoring with meaningless phrases like: “left the homosexual lifestyle”

Of bigger importance is that thirty-five years after the founding of the first ex-gay ministry these organizations have yet to provide any evidence of anyone actually changing sexual orientation.

Also these organizations have consistently failed to provide evidence that what they engage in is safe.

. . .And the evidence that people can change form homosexual (Kinsey scale 6) to heterosexual (Kinsey scale 0)? Well there isn’t any. . .[/SIZE]

Read over 50 Testimonies of People from all Walks of Life SET FREE by Jesus Christ!

Another Way Out- Read Life Stories and Testimonies of guys and girls, of various ages set free from the stronghold of Homosexuality, by Jesus Christ, our Lord.

Link!​

 

[savedandhappy1]

I for one see your point.

You have to understand though that its very difficult to nessecerily believe these things.

Think hypothetically for a moment. Lets say that hetrosexuality is wrong, lets say that hetrosexuals are a minority and the larger proportion of the population are gay (this is hypothetical so please nobody start going on about reproduction or something). Gay marriage is the norm, but many hetrosexuals want to get married too but can't. Some parts of religious groups also claim that being hetrosexual is a sin.

Now as I have stated before I'm not a fan of hetrosexual sex. It grosses me out immensly so. However, was I in this world and in the majority would I vote against hetrosexual marriage? Were I part of the group that claimed hetrosexuality was wrong would I vote against hetrosexual marriage?

NO, I wouldnt. As even if I did have the "hate the sin love the sinner mentality". Restricting someones rights that have NO baring on how you live your life and making someone (or an entire group) unhappy due to my beliefs is reprehensible.

Thats why I personally have a hard job believing someone when they say "I love you but I hate your sin!" while at the same time trying to stop me being married to the person I love the very most in this world.

I hope that at least helps to show you why some of us have difficulty with the "hate the sin, love the sinner" statement. To me it seems that people do hate me, as theyre trying to take away one of the key sources of happiness in my life.

If you understood God's Word to say that hetrosexuality was a sin would you still vote to make it legal?

Would you really put someones feelings above the Lord's will?

You don't think that believing and saying the scriptures tell us that hetrosexuality (going with your hypothetical example) is a sin, and then voting to make it legal is hypocritical? How can it be both ways? Either it is against God's will or in line with His will, and to say one thing and then do the other is like being a double-minded person. The scriptures tell us what God thinks about a double-minded person, and I can get that scripture for you if needed.

I have never said that I didn't understand the point of pro-gay's and homosexuals, because believe it or not I do.

That has no bearing on my actions tho. I am a child of God and it is Him I must answer to. I cannot ignore the scriptures which tell me that homosexuality is a sin, and so I cannot vote to make legal a sin. To me that would be like saying stealing is legal or murder. It would be like saying I know lying is wrong, but as long as they aren't lying to me than who cares.

If it came up for a vote to allow a man to have 2-3 wives I would vote against it. If they said they needed to make a law saying adultery or pre-marital sex can no longer be preached about in the church as a sin, because they were going to make a law saying it is legal, I would vote against it.

The Bible says it will be worse for those who help and/or encourage a brother/sister to sin, and voting to legalize same sex marriages is just that to me.

All through the Bible we see how we are to vote in Godly leaders and they along with the leader of the church are to lead us in the way of the Lord.

Haggai 1:7-9, 12-15; 2:15-19 is just one example of what happens when we put our interest ahead of Gods. We are also told in the scriptures that we are to be disciples and go out and make disciples. Paul went to, I believe it was Greece, to preach the "Good News". He talked to them about all their idols/different gods, and how they even had a statue to the unknown god. They did this to cover all their bases, and Paul told them he had been sent to introduce them to that unknown god, the one True GOD.

Standing up for my beliefs is what I understand the Bible to say we are to do. Not standing up because someone doesn't believe in God or the True God goes against everything I see the Bible saying. We are to witness to all people, not just those who believe in Jesus Christ.

Got to go to church. Hope I didn't miss answering any part of your post, and if I did please post it for me again. I will check back after church.

 

[BradC]

To me, personally being yourself is one of the most important things anyone can do. Its the most important thing you can do with your life on earth, be honest and true to yourself. The only time you lose that provalidge is when what you want directly hurts someone else (Im not saying "be yourself" if your a psychotic murderer for example). The ex-gay movement is directly opposed to being true to yourself (and in my mind, to God aswell) which is where my biggest issue with it comes from.

As a Christian, to me loving God and putting God first is the most important thing I can do with my life on earth! Then would come loving my neighbour. So if I saw my neighbour doing something that wasn't good for them, should I say "ah well, it's not hurting me" and let them hurt themself? Sounds like a lot of people are using moral relativism rather than Gods word to decide what is right and wrong!

 

[MrPirate]

Read over 50 Testimonies of People from all Walks of Life SET FREE by Jesus Christ!​

Another Way Out- Read Life Stories and Testimonies of guys and girls, of various ages set free from the stronghold of Homosexuality, by Jesus Christ, our Lord.​

Link!​

Which have almost as much validity as the testimony of UFO abductees…

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Which have almost as much validity as the testimony of UFO abductees…[/SIZE]

Wrong as usual! The diffrence is there is a before and after witness, in their lives.