Ex-believers-What once convinced you of God's existence?

[KCfromNC]

Such as?

Making up the supernatural as a place for them to hide in, to pick one example.

 

[BL2KTN]

I have leaped beyond logic and determined I rode to work this morning on a T-Rex. He was orange and his breath smelled of pumpernickel.

 

[Sectio Aurea]

I have leaped beyond logic and determined I rode to work this morning on a T-Rex. He was orange and his breath smelled of pumpernickel.

Imagination is the candy of life!

 

[Davian]

That's where we have to think beyond logic.

Beyond logic? Where is that, exactly?

I hope you're a fan of Star Trek. I found part of a transcript that kind of relates to what I'm talking about. It's from the first movie where a machine that had come to life was on a mission to learn everything that could be learned, but was limited to learning only what was physical and provable.

[FONT=&quot]SPOCK: No, Captain, not for us, ...for V'Ger. ...I weep for V'Ger, as I would for a brother. As I was when I came aboard, so is V'Ger now, empty, incomplete, ...searching. Logic and knowledge are not enough.
McCOY: Spock, are you saying that you've found, what you needed, but V'Ger hasn't?
DECKER: What would V'Ger need to fulfil itself?
SPOCK: Each of us, at some time in our life, turns to someone, a father, a brother, a god and asks 'Why am I here?' 'What was I meant to be?' V'Ger hopes to touch its Creator to find its answers.
KIRK: 'Is this all that I am? Is there nothing more?'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]KIRK: Enterprise, stand by. The antenna leads are melted away.
SPOCK: Yes Captain, just now. By V'Ger itself.
KIRK: Why?
SPOCK: To prevent reception.
KIRK: Of course.
DECKER: To bring the Creator here, to finish transmitting the code in person, ...to touch the Creator.
McCOY: To capture God! V'Ger's going to be in for one hell of a disappointment.
SPOCK: Perhaps not. ...Captain, ...V'Ger must evolve. Its knowledge has reached the limits of this universe and it must evolve. What it requires of its God, Doctor is the answer to its question, 'Is there nothing more?
McCOY: What more is there than the universe, Spock?
DECKER: Other, dimensions, higher levels of beings.
SPOCK: The existence of which cannot be proved logically, therefore V'Ger is incapable of believing in them.
KIRK: What V'Ger needs in order to evolve is a human quality. Our capacity to leap beyond logic.
DECKER: And joining with its Creator might accomplish that.[/FONT]

So V'Ger was doing the theistic equivalent of sticking its fingers in its ears? How ironic that you pulled this in as an analogy.

You do realize that Gene Roddenberry was prone to mocking religion in those Star Trek storylines?

"Roddenberry was raised as a Southern Baptist but considered himself a humanist and agnostic. According to Ronald D. Moore, Roddenberry "felt very strongly that contemporary Earth religions would be gone by the 23rd century".[38] According to Brannon Braga, Roddenberry made it known to the writers of Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation that religion and mystical thinking were not to be included, and that in Roddenberry's vision of Earth's future, everyone was an atheist and better for it."

Gene Roddenberry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Davian]

Imagination is the candy of life!

Indeed, but you still need to brush with some skepticism before the rot sets in.

 

[Aldebaran]

So... (in a nut shell) joining a robot with its creator might accomplish a human quality of leaping beyond logic?

Assuming I am understanding you correctly, are you referring to imagination?

No. Got back to post 96. Read the bolded parts. I bolded them because that was the main part I was referencing. The part that we have the ability to think beyond logic. That's an ability we have as humans. If you're only able to think with logic, and operate within the "here and now" and the physical realms, then you would be limited to only those things. In the story, V'ger was only able to operate that way. But humans are able to think beyond logic.

As for God, He doesn't just exist within the physical universe. People are always saying, "Give me objective proof God exists". That would be V'ger's way of thinking. I find it amazing that people so often choose to think that same way when it comes to God.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I have leaped beyond logic and determined I rode to work this morning on a T-Rex. He was orange and his breath smelled of pumpernickel.

 

[Aldebaran]

I have leaped beyond logic and determined I rode to work this morning on a T-Rex. He was orange and his breath smelled of pumpernickel.

Now I'm reminded why I no longer take what atheists say very seriously.

 

[Davian]

Now I'm reminded why I no longer take what atheists say very seriously.

Indeed. How are those Star Trek analogies working for you?

I see you quoting Isaac Asimov, a close atheist friend of Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, in your signature. You are not a closet atheist, are you?

"I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time." - Isaac Asimov

 

[Aldebaran]

Indeed. How are those Star Trek analogies working for you?

I see you quoting Isaac Asimov, a close atheist friend of Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, in your signature. You are not a closet atheist, are you?

"I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time." - Isaac Asimov

I've enjoyed reading several novels by Asimov, and I've enjoyed the Star Trek series of TV shows and movies as well. I've also watched many other movies and have read other books. It doesn't mean I subscribe to the worldviews of everyone involved in the creation of these things.

 

[Eudaimonist]

No. Got back to post 96. Read the bolded parts. I bolded them because that was the main part I was referencing. The part that we have the ability to think beyond logic. That's an ability we have as humans. If you're only able to think with logic, and operate within the "here and now" and the physical realms, then you would be limited to only those things. In the story, V'ger was only able to operate that way. But humans are able to think beyond logic.

As for God, He doesn't just exist within the physical universe. People are always saying, "Give me objective proof God exists". That would be V'ger's way of thinking. I find it amazing that people so often choose to think that same way when it comes to God.

I like the original Star Trek, but I personally thought that the first Star Trek movie was a silly movie in terms of its themes. I didn't much care for it.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Aldebaran]

I like the original Star Trek, but I personally thought that the first Star Trek movie was a silly movie in terms of its themes. I didn't much care for it.


eudaimonia,

Mark

It certainly wasn't my favorite either. But it was on TV recently and the lines I quoted reminded me quite a bit of what is talked about here, which is why I shared it.

 

[Davian]

I've enjoyed reading several novels by Asimov, and I've enjoyed the Star Trek series of TV shows and movies as well. I've also watched many other movies and have read other books. It doesn't mean I subscribe to the worldviews of everyone involved in the creation of these things.

Be careful. Slippery slope, and all that.

 

[Aldebaran]

Be careful. Slippery slope, and all that.

Sure, as long as it's used for entertainment rather than a learning tool, although it can be that as well sometimes.