Evolution's Brick Wall

[pitabread]

God.

I didn't ask who, I asked how.

 

[mark kennedy]

I didn't ask who, I asked how.

Same answer, you know you never did have much to say and your arguments shrink fast. Your one of those guys that post all the time and never learn the actual subject matter.

 

[pitabread]

Same answer, you know you never did have much to say and your arguments shrink fast. Your one of those guys that post all the time and never learn the actual subject matter.

Did you respond to the wrong post? I'm asking you a question and your reply has nothing to do with what I asked.

Let's try again: if human brains are not the result of evolution, then how (as in what were the mechanisms/steps/etc of their creation) were they created? Don't avoid the question, just try to answer it.

 

[mark kennedy]

Did you respond to the wrong post? I'm asking you a question and your reply has nothing to do with what I asked.

Let's try again: if human brains are not the result of evolution, then how (as in what were the mechanisms/steps/etc of their creation) were they created? Don't avoid the question, just try to answer it.

Its a comparison dude, that's all the research yields. They, chimpanzees were independently created, pure and simple. Darwinian evolution as you know it is impossible by any known course. Its truly fascinating how you cant see the obvious, no wonder you cant handle the details.

 

[pitabread]

Its a comparison dude, that's all the research yields. They, chimpanzees were independently created, pure and simple. Darwinian evolution as you know it is impossible by any known course.

Great, if they were created then how was that accomplished? What is the mechanism by which chimps, humans, etc were created? What were the steps, processes, energies, etcs, involved in creating a living organism like a human or chimp wholesale?

Its truly fascinating how you cant see the obvious, no wonder you cant handle the details.

All I see so far is an argument from incredulity. I'm asking you to provide the details and so far you seem reluctant to do so.

If they were "independently created, pure and simple", then provide the details as to how that process occurred.

 

[Job 33:6]

That's what I thought, you don't read the source material mad argue in circles around it. I knew you wouldn't read it Darwinians are ridiculously predictible.

I did read your source material. I read the entire research paper. And there was nothing in it that suggested that 18 mutations was an unreasonable number to have occurred over the millions of years since we have descended from our common ancestor with chimps.

Do you have any other sources to share? I'll gladly read any source material that you have to share.

 

[Job 33:6]

And another thing, as I mentioned before, speciation in 95% of animals have been estimated to have occurred between the last 100,000-200,000 years. So over the course of 2-4 or even 6 million years, you have speciation occuring in a lineage 10-20 plus times over. So to suggest that the occurance of a mere 18 mutations is outlandish requires a bit more of an explanation.

@mark kennedy you have mentioned that this particular gene is highly conserved, but as I have stated before, rates of evolution and fixation are described, commonly as rates that change based on selective and or environmental pressures. That which is highly conserved can become less so, pending selective pressures.

I'll await more information on your argument though.

 

[mark kennedy]

And another thing, as I mentioned before, speciation in 95% of animals have been estimated to have occurred between the last 100,000-200,000 years. So over the course of 2-4 or even 6 million years, you have speciation occuring in a lineage 10-20 plus times over. So to suggest that the occurance of a mere 18 mutations is outlandish requires a bit more of an explanation.

The chimpanzees have speculated once, so have the gorrilas. Billions of humans on this planet and even though you would have me assume giant leaps in adaptive evolution there only one species of humans.

@mark kennedy you have mentioned that this particular gene is highly conserved, but as I have stated before, rates of evolution and fixation are described, commonly as rates that change based on selective and or environmental pressures. That which is highly conserved can become less so, pending selective pressures.

Yet in 18 years of these fallacious argument coming at me, not one have I seen a beneficial effect from a mutation in a brain related gene.

I'll await more information on your argument though.

Exactly what Ive come to expect, demand sources you dont bother to read, then demand more endlessly in circles. Then you wonder why you cant be taken seriously, its because you dont take the subject matter seriously. Its too bad, its a fascinating subject and as much time as you spend on here you will never learn the basics. Your missing out and that's on you.

 

[Job 33:6]

The chimpanzees have speculated once, so have the gorrilas. Billions of humans on this planet and even though you would have me assume giant leaps in adaptive evolution there only one species of humans.


Yet in 18 years of these fallacious argument coming at me, not one have I seen a beneficial effect from a mutation in a brain related gene.


Exactly what Ive come to expect, demand sources you dont bother to read, then demand more endlessly in circles. Then you wonder why you cant be taken seriously, its because you dont take the subject matter seriously. Its too bad, its a fascinating subject and as much time as you spend on here you will never learn the basics. Your missing out and that's on you.

Regarding beneficial mutations at large, do you think they happen at all, in any gene in any life form? Or is it strictly human related brains that you're interested in?

Also, I posted several sources from biologists describing genes that had mutated in beneficial ways in the past. You just don't seem to believe any of it. What did you think about the mutation regarding the need for less sleep?

Lastly, I've read the HAR1f source that you provided. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm not reading what you're posting. What else would you like me to read? Post more and I will read. This isn't a loaded request. I'm just sitting here waiting for you to justify your words that's all. No tricks. Just me sitting here waiting.

@pitabread or @inquiring mind do either of you know what his sources are that he is suggesting I haven't read?

@VirOptimus do you know what sources he is suggesting that I read? Or sources that he is suggesting that I am not reading?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Its a comparison dude, that's all the research yields. They, chimpanzees were independently created, pure and simple. Darwinian evolution as you know it is impossible by any known course. Its truly fascinating how you cant see the obvious, no wonder you cant handle the details.

So how do you think it happened? Were apes around for millions of years before God suddenly created the first human using most of the chimp genome as a pattern? Did God just take mud and form it into millions of DNA and protein molecules in the million of cells that just popped up out of the mud to form Adam? If so, why did he meticulously follow the pattern of the chimp DNA including the junk dna?

Why can it not be that God just took the ancestor ape DNA and modified it to human DNA through a process that was able to navigate the difficulties of creating new structures (Darwinian evolution)?

 

[doubtingmerle]

The chimpanzees have speculated once, so have the gorrilas. Billions of humans on this planet and even though you would have me assume giant leaps in adaptive evolution there only one species of humans.

i speculate that they speciated, not speculated.

just as the chimp genus has more than one species, the home genus does too including homo sapiens, homo erectus, and homo habilis.

 

[Job 33:6]

So how do you think it happened? Were apes around for millions of years before God suddenly created the first human using most of the chimp genome as a pattern? Did God just take mud and form it into millions of DNA and protein molecules in the million of cells that just popped up out of the mud to form Adam? If so, why did he meticulously follow the pattern of the chimp DNA including the junk dna?

Why can it not be that God just took the ancestor ape DNA and modified it to human DNA through a process that was able to navigate the difficulties of creating new structures (Darwinian evolution)?

How dare you suggest that evolution, which happens in every other life form, could possibly happen in people too. This is just blasphemy.

 

[Job 33:6]

God could have created man at any stage in the history of the earth. Interesting that He decided to wait until just after the human like proto apes, to create man.

How dare people suggest that this could actually be because they simply evolved from the proto apes.

We already see successions such as the fish to tetrapod like fish to fish like tetrapod to tetrapod succession, and many others. But to suggest that mankind is part of a succession as well? I mean come on.

 

[mark kennedy]

Regarding beneficial mutations at large, do you think they happen at all, in any gene in any life form? Or is it strictly human related brains that you're interested in?

Yes, its a clearly established fact that there are beneficial effects sometimes from mutations. They are fairly rare and almost never bring on adaptation on an evolutionary scale. My principle interest is human ancestry in general a human brain evolution in particular.

Also, I posted several sources from biologists describing genes that had mutated in beneficial ways in the past. You just don't seem to believe any of it. What did you think about the mutation regarding the need for less sleep?

Lastly, I've read the HAR1f source that you provided. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm not reading what you're posting. What else would you like me to read? Post more and I will read. This isn't a loaded request. I'm just sitting here waiting for you to justify your words that's all. No tricks. Just me sitting here waiting.

@pitabread or @inquiring mind do either of you know what his sources are that he is suggesting I haven't read?

@VirOptimus do you know what sources he is suggesting that I read? Or sources that he is suggesting that I am not reading?[/QUOTE]

So how do you think it happened? Were apes around for millions of years before God suddenly created the first human using most of the chimp genome as a pattern? Did God just take mud and form it into millions of DNA and protein molecules in the million of cells that just popped up out of the mud to form Adam? If so, why did he meticulously follow the pattern of the chimp DNA including the junk dna?

Why can it not be that God just took the ancestor ape DNA and modified it to human DNA through a process that was able to navigate the difficulties of creating new structures (Darwinian evolution)?

God created them independently

 

[mark kennedy]

i speculate that they speciated, not speculated.

just as the chimp genus has more than one species, the home genus does too including homo sapiens, homo erectus, and homo habilis.

There is only one species of homo, the others are contrived

 

[pitabread]

God created them independently

How were they created though?

You keep complaining about things you feel evolution can't explain, but you don't seem to have an explanation for independent creation either.

 

[pitabread]

God could have created man at any stage in the history of the earth. Interesting that He decided to wait until just after the human like proto apes, to create man.

Not only that but various patterns in genetics and developmental biology that suggests shared ancestry with other primates instead of creation from scratch.

 

[doubtingmerle]

There is only one species of homo, the others are contrived

So Adam and eve were more like homo habilis than homo sapiens, and lived about 2 million years ago? After all, we find homo habilis that old, but find no homo sapiens anywhere close to 2 million years ago.



And your God just made them pop up out of the ground millions of years after the first ape, and they just so happened to have DNA that resembles chimp dna, including the junk dna?

 

[inquiring mind]

Did God just take mud and form it into millions of DNA and protein molecules in the million of cells that just popped up out of the mud to form Adam?

According to Genesis 2:7, yes.

If so, why did he meticulously follow the pattern of the chimp DNA including the junk dna?

Maybe, there was just a lot of that design He liked. They were created first.

Why can it not be that God just took the ancestor ape DNA and modified it to human DNA through a process that was able to navigate the difficulties of creating new structures (Darwinian evolution)?

Because He repeatedly says in the Bible that He made things according to their own kind. What makes it so difficult for you to see that man is too unique to have evolved the way you suggest.

 

[inquiring mind]

just as the chimp genus has more than one species, the home genus does too including homo sapiens, homo erectus, and homo habilis.

Chimps are still chimps, and humans are still humans.

And your God just made them pop up out of the ground millions of years after the first ape, and they just so happened to have DNA that resembles chimp dna, including the junk dna?

As I said before, maybe He just thought that design had a lot going for it, but at the same time mankind is too unique to have evolved as you suggest.