Evolution

[1whirlwind]

Well, from about the 390 BC to 1822, virtually the entire world- including the religious hierarchy, both Christian and Muslims- believed that the earth was the centre of the Universe (geocentrism)- so the author of the Web site would have been in good company. Actually, it wasn't until 1838 that FW Bessel published "proof" that the earth revolved around the sun.

But even to this day, some creationists, like Marshall Hall, don't believe it; here is one example:

Answered honestly from all known evidence, we know that these "What If's" add up to one inescapable Truth. That Truth is that the Bible is just what it claims to be, namely, the inerrant, sufficient, infallible Word of the living God who cannot lie.

So, as a Creationist, what if you have to stand up for the plain Biblical non-moving Earth because: a) It is a pivotal feature of the Genesis Creation Account wherein (in addition to the hard evidence at this site) there was no sun to go around until the 4th day; b) The alleged size and age of the universe which provide the billions of years for the evolution hypothesis self-destructs without heliocentricity, and continued support of heliocentricity while claiming to be a literal six-day Creationist is hypocrisy; c) The now available facts demonstrating that all the concepts upholding the heliocentricity-dependent Big Bang Paradigm of 15 billion years of evolutionism comprise an alternate "creation scenario" from a Christ-hating "holy book" of the Pharisee Religion.

Thus, the only choice for Creationists now taking shape is this: Are you going to be a Zohar/ Kabbala/ Pharisee Big Bang Evolutionary "creationist" or the Bible/Christian Anti-Evolution Creationist the world believes you to be?


Sound familiar?

The difference you continue to miss is....those men assumed they knew. What they thought and taught, much as evolution...isn't written.

Stick with the written Word.


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[Cabal]

Why would you think that was trivially easy

No? Several prominent creationists can't seem to agree on which exact fossils are human and which are ape. You'd think that given they know SOOOO much more than people who study fossils for a living it should be a piece of cake for them to figure it out, seeing as they have the inside track on what God thinks.

There is another account of a bone fragment or something (again...I plead old age and terrible memory) but a whole hairy-human family being displayed for all the world, was built on that fragment. Turns out...the fragment was from a pig.

Old age is right - that happened in the 1920s, and it was never even widely accepted in the first place. The only people citing it as significant these days are creationists.

What next, Piltdown man?

 

[1whirlwind]

Ah, I see the mistake they made. They neglected to try and pass their opinion off as fact the way you have the entire thread.

Funny how that's ok for you, but not for other people.

My opinion? Seems to me the opinion being put forth here is...evolution. God's account is written...your theory isn't. To believe your theory you must discount God's Word. How's that working for 'ya?


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[Servant of Jesus]

But its good that you've gotten closer to your actual intentions.

And what do you think that really is? Let me give you a hint:

I am a scientist, who finds great support for my faith in my science. As I've stated before, I am convinced that when we finally make it to Heaven, we will find that there will be no conflict between what the Bible states, and what science has discovered; that is, we mortals will finally have interpreted the Bible correctly, and science will have finally got it right, and defined ultimate truth.

God created the Universe- and evolution was one of the mechanisms He used to produce the multitude of living entities that we see today.

But I believe that man is different: that God created Adam and Eve in a special moment of creation. To me, the evidence of that is the fact that we are more than just a genetic accident, more than just a bunch of DNA that was passed on from generation to generation, and mutated occasionally to produce the vast array of human races that we see today. We have intellect, we have the ability to think, to dream, and to create wonderful things; we have a conscience and psyche, the ability almost from birth to distinguish right from wrong.

Take, for example, a symphony- there is no doubt that Beethoven's Fifth has incredible order and harmony that has had universal appeal for over a hundred years. And yet, to recreate the order that Beethoven expressed, and to explain and reproduce it is impossible for the rest of us- so there is no doubt in my mind that Beethoven's ability to produce such a monumental piece of music is due to the hand of God. This cannot be genetics, it is not adaption- it is, pure and simple, just God expressing his love for us.

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[Cabal]

My opinion? Seems to me the opinion being put forth here is...evolution.

It's not the only one. That said, we're just not in denial over what is an opinion and what isn't.

God's account is written...your theory isn't. To believe your theory you must discount God's Word. How's that working for 'ya?

About as well as discounting "God's account" of a geocentric universe is working out for you.

 

[1whirlwind]

If you read the King James version of Genesis 1:1-5, it is clear in a literal interpretation that the Sun was created AFTER the earth and therefore could not be occupying the same central position as the earth, so it could be moving around it.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


So there is NO DOUBT that this passage can be interpreted as meaning that the sun revolves around the earth. Indeed- there are some scientists who claim the opposite- but they are probably the same scientists who also believe in evolution! But Christians need to stand on the Bible alone, and have confidence in THEIR OWN interpretation of it's truths- it is neither necessary or even desirable to listen to or consider the opinions of others, including Biblical scholars and scientists.

And to add additional evidence to ponder: NOWHERE does the Bible specifically claim that the earth is revolving around the Sun. If this were true, wouldn't God have stated it as such?

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There are many things not stated in the Bible. Does that mean they are not true? What you must come to terms with is Creation is mentioned....evolution is not.

The "light" in the above quote doesn't refer to the sun.





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[1whirlwind]

It's not the only one. That said, we're just not in denial over what is an opinion and what isn't.

So...what are you arguing here Cabal? If you want to accept the earth spinning around the sun okay but I don't nor does His Word mention it. Why do you? Why keep going on about something so silly?

About as well as discounting "God's account" of a geocentric universe is working out for you.

And did I ever mention geocentric anything or...was that you? You evolutionist keep sticking it in...not me. You use it, the circle of the earth, the geneology, and on and on...Why?


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[1whirlwind]

No? Several prominent creationists can't seem to agree on which exact fossils are human and which are ape. You'd think that given they know SOOOO much more than people who study fossils for a living it should be a piece of cake for them to figure it out, seeing as they have the inside track on what God thinks.

I don't care nor is it relevant. We all have the same track Cabal for He tells us. Our part is accepting His word or man's.

Old age is right - that happened in the 1920s, and it was never even widely accepted in the first place. The only people citing it as significant these days are creationists.

What next, Piltdown man?

Lucy? That error was recent.

There are NO skeletal remains of man past, I believe, 14,000 years. Doesn't that tell you something? They find objects dated well past that time but not man's bones. Shouldn't they be all over the place if evolution is true?


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[Servant of Jesus]

There are NO skeletal remains of man past, I believe, 14,000 years. Doesn't that tell you something? They find objects dated well past that time but not man's bones. Shouldn't they be all over the place if evolution is true?

What?? A fundamentalist creationist who doesn't believe that the earth is less than 6000 years old???

I thought you took the Bible literally.

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[1whirlwind]

What?? A fundamentalist creationist who doesn't believe that the earth is less than 6000 years old???

I thought you took the Bible literally.

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Nowhere in the Bible is it written that this earth is 6000 years old.


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[Mikecpking]

Nowhere in the Bible is it written that this earth is 6000 years old.


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How old would you say it was?

 

[1whirlwind]

How old would you say it was?

The earth itself is billions of years old...no one knows but it is ancient. This present earth age is, according to Scripture, about 14,000 years old.

There was an age before our present age, the one in which Satan rebelled. God destroyed the age (not the earth but He shook it up destroying life.) In Genesis 1:2 we see the beginning of this present age, the one in which man was created in flesh.

Peter wrote that one day is as a thousand years to God. Using that, when mankind was created, on the sixth day, would be year 6000. God rested on year 7000, Adam was formed after the seventh and time became man's time. That was year 8000. Four thousand years later Jesus came to earth = 12,000 and it has been two thousand years since His crucifixion = 14,000 years.


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[pgp_protector]

The earth itself is billions of years old...no one knows but it is ancient. This present earth age is, according to Scripture, about 14,000 years old.

There was an age before our present age, the one in which Satan rebelled. God destroyed the age (not the earth but He shook it up destroying life.) In Genesis 1:2 we see the beginning of this present age, the one in which man was created in flesh.

Peter wrote that one day is as a thousand years to God. Using that, when mankind was created, on the sixth day, would be year 6000. God rested on year 7000, Adam was formed after the seventh and time became man's time. That was year 8000. Four thousand years later Jesus came to earth = 12,000 and it has been two thousand years since His crucifixion = 14,000 years.


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So did that previous earth have a Sun & Moon given they weren't created tell day 4?

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

 

[1whirlwind]

So did that previous earth have a Sun & Moon given they weren't created tell day 4?

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

It wasn't a "previous earth," but was a previous earth AGE. Same earth. You must decide if the Lights He placed to govern day and night are the Sun, moon and stars or....Jesus, Satan and angelic beings.

Through Job God mentions the first age.....



Job 9:4-9 He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against Him, and hath prospered? Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in His anger. Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea. Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south. Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.


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[shernren]

It wasn't a "previous earth," but was a previous earth AGE. Same earth. You must decide if the Lights He placed to govern day and night are the Sun, moon and stars or....Jesus, Satan and angelic beings.

Whoa there buddy, Jesus was not created.

This only adds to my ever-lengthening list of creationists with fundamental doctrinal misunderstandings.

 

[1whirlwind]

Whoa there buddy, Jesus was not created.

This only adds to my ever-lengthening list of creationists with fundamental doctrinal misunderstandings.

I didn't imply that He was created.


Psalm 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

Amos 8:9-10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day: And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.

Noon is...the sixth hour:
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Luke 23:43-46 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with Me in paradise. And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.

Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light.


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[Cabal]

So...what are you arguing here Cabal? If you want to accept the earth spinning around the sun okay but I don't nor does His Word mention it. Why do you? Why keep going on about something so silly?

I've told you before - I don't accept geocentrism. I'm only bringing it up to show why your view isn't worth accepting.

And did I ever mention geocentric anything or...was that you? You evolutionist keep sticking it in...not me. You use it, the circle of the earth, the geneology, and on and on...Why?

Still not getting it? To highlight your inconsistency, and show that the manner of your claim is little different to those that claimed geocentrism.

 

[Cabal]

I don't care nor is it relevant. We all have the same track Cabal for He tells us. Our part is accepting His word or man's.

I shall reject the word of creationists then - seeing as they, in their brilliance, cannot agree on what a human fossil and an ape fossil look like.

Lucy? That error was recent.

The only recent error regarding Lucy is your thinking it was an error.

There are NO skeletal remains of man past, I believe, 14,000 years. Doesn't that tell you something?

Tells me you need to read up on the scientific literature a bit more.

They find objects dated well past that time but not man's bones. Shouldn't they be all over the place if evolution is true?

They are.

 

[1whirlwind]

I've told you before - I don't accept geocentrism. I'm only bringing it up to show why your view isn't worth accepting.

For that to have any bearing on this...wouldn't it be me that had to bring up geocentrism? I didn't....you did. It has nothing to do with "my view."

Still not getting it? To highlight your inconsistency.

Then keep trying for you haven't achieved your goal. Point out the inconsistencies you believe I have brought forward and not those you're pulling out of the air...they have nothing to do with me or what I'm saying here.


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[Cabal]

For that to have any bearing on this...wouldn't it be me that had to bring up geocentrism? I didn't....you did. It has nothing to do with "my view."

Wow, still not getting it?

I'll make it simple - it's not about you believing geocentrism - it's that your rejection of evolution is no different, in manner and justification, than those who rejected heliocentrism. Based on that, there is no reason to accept your justification or your conclusion, as it is a demonstrably insufficient basis for throwing away all the science that you personally disagree with.

Then keep trying for you haven't achieved your goal.

Everyone else got the point - you seem to be having difficulty with it.