Evolution

[savedandthankful]

I'm more focused on the creator than on creation. I don't believe that evolution (even if true) is a real argument against the existance of the creator. It proves nothing of the sort.

As for the question, is evolution real? It depends on ones definition of evolution. The idea that evolution is the origin of all species and that we evolved from animals is only one theory of evolution. There is no scripture or scientific proof to support it as an entire theory. There is scientific data that supports some aspects of evolution, but not this entire theory. Many who claim to believe in evolution are not aware that there are several different theories of evolution.

Do I believe it's possible that God created animals capable of evolving? Yes, it sounds credible that God would allow different species of certain animals to adapt and even evolve by a process of natural selection. Does this prove that God didn't create beasts of the earth on the same day? NO. There is no proof that evolution begins the process of creation rather that happening after the process of creation has already taken place. Sure people can post links containing scientific data for evolution, but I have yet to come accross any that have real proof that evolution begins the process of creation.

Look at the facts. Even humans have managed to turn large wild dogs into small domestic pets in just a few years by a process breading. If we can produce this, isn't God capable of doing so much more? I believe the all powerful God can create something in a day and I struggle with other Christians who lack faith in this possibility.

 

[wago1234]

very helpful post.. thanks for sharing..

 

[2intime]

Evolution is a fact. Period. It's been proven in so many ways that anyone who looks into in just a little will be convinced. But that's the rub. You have to look into it. Not on a site like answersingenesis.com, but at a true evolution site. The evidence is overwhelming.

 

[savedandthankful]

Evolution is a fact. Period. It's been proven in so many ways that anyone who looks into in just a little will be convinced. But that's the rub. You have to look into it. Not on a site like answersingenesis.com, but at a true evolution site. The evidence is overwhelming.

I respect your opinion and I will not debate your opinion because this would be in breach of the rules of this forum, but I will post my personal experience.

My experience is that I have looked into evolution. I have looked into scientific data from websites that support evolution. I have come across data that supports some aspects of evolution, but I have not seen anything that has convinced me that evolution is the origin of life. If anything I have found that science has supported the view that the universe has an ordely plan that was not born out of random events. My belief is that God is the creator who planned everything to order.

 

[nChrist]

Evolution is a fact. Period. It's been proven in so many ways that anyone who looks into in just a little will be convinced. But that's the rub. You have to look into it. Not on a site like answersingenesis.com, but at a true evolution site. The evidence is overwhelming.

No, evolution is not a fact - rather a recent THEORY that has more holes than a sponge. The THEORY'S history involves a large number of hoaxes and manufactured evidence. What's left of the THEORY of evolution is hanging by a thread - a thread of vanity to save face for some so-called scientific types. God Created man just like He said that He did in Genesis. God's Word contains the facts of Creation that has stood as the absolute truth these thousands of years. Further, God's Word will stand forever, long after the theory of evolution joins the already existing pile of junk science that has been debunked. The theory of evolution is an embarrassment to so-called science.

Here's a quote I find of the forum the other day that some might enjoy:

"A more likely theory is that monkeys have de-volved from human beings who have chosen to deny the existence of their Creator and wandered off into the darkness of unbelief."

- Ephraimanesti​

Here's the truth that will stand forever:

Genesis 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

I'll believe God over man any day. Mankind is the only part of Creation in the image of God - a triune being accountable to God - body, soul, and spirit. Man started out perfect - the opposite of the theory of evolution. Man sinned against God and was thrown out of the beautiful garden God had created for man.

By the way, Answers in Genesis is an excellent site that I highly recommend, but God's Word should be more than sufficient for most Christians.

 

[HantsUK]

savedandthankful made some very important observations, including:

As for the question, is evolution real? It depends on ones definition of evolution.

'Evolution' can mean very different things. It is vital to understand both what you mean and what others mean when discussing evolution. It doesn't help, when people (on all sides) change their definitions mid sentence!

Evolution can mean:
- variation within a species
- creation of new species
- creation of life
- creation of the universe
- Big Bang
- a philosophy that excludes God
(not a complete list)

The first of these is what Darwin observed, and is observed fact, while no Christian can agree with the last one whatever their views on evolution. These and many of the other meanings are unrelated, beyond being called evolution. Confusing them (deliberately?) just leads to false arguments on both sides.

One (strict) definition of evolution is:
Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.
(from talkorigins - sorry - I can't post links)

Evolution is a process / mechanism but tells us nothing about the agent or creator behind it. The Bible plainly states that God created, but does not tell us how. Proving evolution does not disprove God on the one hand, and on the other, Genesis is not incompatible with evolution. Do not confuse 'evolution' (a process / mechanism) with God (creator).

But even this definition has a very wide range of meaning and having a theory that explains how some changes can occur cannot necessarily be extrapolated to explain the origin of all forms of life. So far, no-one has a reasonable theory for the evolution of DNA - the basis of life. The universe is not big enough or old enough for random events to be even a remotely probable cause of self-replicating machines ie DNA. See John Lennox - God's Undertaker.

Note that the above definition does not cover the Big Bang but many people mix everything together (and get muddled thinking).

A comment on the word 'theory'. Some people dismiss 'evolution' because it is 'only a theory', and keeps changing. This is a misunderstanding of science. A theory is what most scientists consider to be the best explanation, not merely some half-baked ideas. There will always be problems and difficulties with all theories, and they will be continually changes. You wouldn't dismiss Einstein's theory of relativity because it radically changed from Newton's theories (those scientists can't make their minds ups), or because it contradicts common-sense and our own experiences (which it does). So, be careful in dismissing 'evolution' just because it is a mere theory which keeps changing.

 

[Mess]

I'm more focused on the creator than on creation. I don't believe that evolution (even if true) is a real argument against the existance of the creator. It proves nothing of the sort.

As for the question, is evolution real? It depends on ones definition of evolution. The idea that evolution is the origin of all species and that we evolved from animals is only one theory of evolution. There is no scripture or scientific proof to support it as an entire theory. There is scientific data that supports some aspects of evolution, but not this entire theory. Many who claim to believe in evolution are not aware that there are several different theories of evolution.

Do I believe it's possible that God created animals capable of evolving? Yes, it sounds credible that God would allow different species of certain animals to adapt and even evolve by a process of natural selection. Does this prove that God didn't create beasts of the earth on the same day? NO. There is no proof that evolution begins the process of creation rather that happening after the process of creation has already taken place. Sure people can post links containing scientific data for evolution, but I have yet to come accross any that have real proof that evolution begins the process of creation.

Look at the facts. Even humans have managed to turn large wild dogs into small domestic pets in just a few years by a process breading. If we can produce this, isn't God capable of doing so much more? I believe the all powerful God can create something in a day and I struggle with other Christians who lack faith in this possibility.

Micro evolution is indeed a fact, that is no arguement. But, and this is a but, micro evolution does not mean macro evolution. Actually scripture supports the idea of micro evolution. Look at the Story of Noah. God let two of each kind into the Ark. Every pair was an archtype. But a dog is still a dog, it doesn't matter if it's a poodle or a pittbull, a dog is a dog. A specy is defined by the capability to interbreed. All dogs can interbreed, so it is no new species. I do say this though, God created the earth in six days, 6000years ago, and in His All Mighty Knowledge gave the animals the power to adapt to situations. And Praise be upon Him for that. So actually I agree with you , and I too struggle with such an attitude among those that profess to be Christian.

Evolution is a fact. Period. It's been proven in so many ways that anyone who looks into in just a little will be convinced. But that's the rub. You have to look into it. Not on a site like answersingenesis.com, but at a true evolution site. The evidence is overwhelming.

Lmao, actually when you look into evolution you'll see it is far, very far from a proven fact. Even evolutionist scientists acknowledge this. Hence also why it is called a theory and not the fact of evolution. Micro evolution FACT, macro evolution as in death matter to man(ever noticed how that doesn't happen anymore and our entire food industry depends on the fact that The theory of evolution is false), LIE.

 

[sealacamp]

Evolution is a fact. Period. It's been proven in so many ways that anyone who looks into in just a little will be convinced.

When you make a statement like this it is not an opinion according to your statements premise. Evolution is a theory and has never been proven. So you are incorrect. As for examining the supposed evidence of this theory I have examined it many times and find it to be lacking. The same faith that believes in evolution is required to believe in creation. Isn't it better to believe in God and His word than to believe in something that was conjured up by mankind and then exacerbated by those that choose to undermine the authority of this same God? Merely making the statement you have made proves nothing except that you are convinced, which for everyone else is meaningless.

Sealacamp

 

[lismore]

What do you all honestly think about evolution?

Hello

May I post a fellowship post

I think that evolution if absolutely irrefutable, if you look at the animal world around us, you can see animals adapting to their surroundings, variations within a species. They evolve, it's inescapable. If you even look at pigeons you can see this.

However, the debate arises over 'species'. While evolution is a fact does it mean that one species can change into another, or just evolution in the sense of variations within a species?

As another poster said, Creationists accept what they call 'micro evolution', but not 'macro evolution'.

Basically everyone believes in evolution, there is no agreement on how far it can go.

Personally I do not believe that one species can change into another. E.g finches evolve into other finches, more evolved and specialised finches yes, but still finches.

God created animals according to their kinds and gave them the ability to evolve within their kind.

God Bless all here

 

[nChrist]

The big debate on Christian forums regards the origin of mankind, not micro-evolution.

 

[tmanz12]

God created everything and it separated into various kinds or species. Things have been devolving ever since sin entered into the world. Micro-evolution does happen that is a variation within a kind of animal. Kinds are described as two animals that look alike that can create offspring. Microevolution has never been proven to be negative or positive in all cases.

I say devolved because the farther back you go everything seems to get bigger, stronger and better suited for living.

 

[The Fourth Horseman]

What do you all honestly think about evolution?

hope this makes sense, I did a lot of mind dumping on this so there might some weird things or I go off on a tangent.

Its a better explanation then what the bible tells me if you ask me. I don't see how Christians find it perfectly rational to just have faith in the Bible but claim Evolution lacks evidence or that if they somehow managed to completely debunk evolution it would some how inversely be definitive proof of Creationism. It is the greats hypocrisy I have ever known.

This doesn't work

Evolution not true = Creationism is true?
Also
Creationism not true= Evolution True

Like saying Oranges are actually Green because Oranges aren't Blue. To prove Creationism or Evolution one would need definitive evidence and not simply put down one theory to how the world was created.

This works but then one gets into the argument of Theistic Evolution and Atheistic Evolution

Evolution true = Creationism not true
and
Creationism True = Evolution not true

These statements are true because each would have proved itself with evidence and scientific understanding and therefore would indeed disprove a creationist or evolutionist ideal as it being true would cause other theories to be false.



Simple fact is that Creationism has less evidence then Evolution and especially Young Earth believers have really no validation in science. Refuting such things as Carbon Dating and Biology simply because they point towards a more evolutionistic ideal rather than a creationistic ideal is ludicrous. Would you go a about saying Chemistry is wrong because its not in the Bible? Because in that case you might as well turn of you computer and go build yourself a mud hut because everything around you is the product of experimentation and the scientific method.

 

[The Fourth Horseman]

God created everything and it separated into various kinds or species. Things have been devolving ever since sin entered into the world. Micro-evolution does happen that is a variation within a kind of animal. Kinds are described as two animals that look alike that can create offspring. Microevolution has never been proven to be negative or positive in all cases.

I say devolved because the farther back you go everything seems to get bigger, stronger and better suited for living.

Expect humans are the largest they have ever been....

ever seen a medieval suit of armor? most are made for guys between 5' 5" and 5' 10"

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Expect humans are the largest they have ever been....

Wrong, Goliath was about 9 feet tall 1 Samuel 17:4. Also other tall people are mentioned in the Old Testament.

 

[sealacamp]

Expect humans are the largest they have ever been....

Another theory that only uses the last few hundred years to substantiate itself. How do any of us know what has totally been? Even Solomon was wise enough to recognize that things of the past become distorted or forgotten. If you think you know the complete answer to anything in the past there is a good chance that you only know about something in isolation or a distortion that was passed along to us. In this case I would say that the evidence comes from an isolated area and doesn't examine all of mankind in the world nor does it take into account several thousand years prior to the evidence presented.

We don’t remember what happened in the past, and in future generations, no one will remember what we are doing now.

Sealacamp

 

[lovemybirds]

I studied anthropology in college and I began doubting macro evolution when I began farming. The reason I don't believe in macro evolution is because so many things need to be in place simply for an animal to reproduce. When we breed a cow, her body immediately begins getting ready to have her calf (in 9 months). There is no way this could have evolved. Everything needed to be in place the first time the first cow had a calf. The same with the chick forming in the egg. 21 days from sunny side up to kfc. A miracle that it can happen and yet all of the elements had to be in place for that first chick to have been hatched. A hen has to sit on her eggs for the required time and they could not have evolved to do this. The instinct to brood can be bred out, but it had to be there in the beginning when God created them. I learned that evolution, where it was claimed that we camed from a primordial soup is utter baloney. These are small examples, but valid examples. Check out the Incubator Bird. This remarkable bird totally discredits evolution.

 

[sealacamp]

Check out the Incubator Bird.

There is at least one other animal that hatches their eggs in this fashion, it is an Alligator. They pile up brush to generate heat on their eggs in the same way. I never heard of any other animal doing this same thing and it is strange that a bird would be doing it too. I think your post is very valid and all of what God created can be observed and validated very easily. I think that is part of why God tells us in His word "Come let us reason together." For when we reason with God the baloney of this world dissipates into the nothingness that it is.

Sealacamp

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Expect humans are the largest they have ever been....

ever seen a medieval suit of armor? most are made for guys between 5' 5" and 5' 10"

Actually, people are different heights today in different parts of the world. Genetics play a role, definitely, but diet and nutrition are also major components. People are taller today in the western world largely because they are generally better nourished.

 

[Faith.Man]

"The Second Law of Thermodynamics, which is accepted as one of the basic laws of physics, holds that under normal conditions all systems left on their own tend to become disordered, dispersed, and corrupted in direct relation to the amount of time that passes. Everything, whether living or not, wears out, deteriorates, decays, disintegrates, and is destroyed. This is the absolute end that all beings will face one way or another, and according to the law, the process cannot be avoided."


"This is something that all of us have observed. For example if you take a car to a desert and leave it there, you would hardly expect to find it in a better condition when you came back years later. On the contrary, you would see that its tires had gone flat, its windows had been broken, its chassis had rusted, and its engine had stopped working. The same inevitable process holds true for living things."


"The second law of thermodynamics is the means by which this natural process is defined, with physical equations and calculations."


"This famous law of physics is also known as the "law of entropy." In physics, entropy is the measure of the disorder of a system. A system's entropy increases as it moves from an ordered, organized, and planned state towards a more disordered, dispersed, and unplanned one. The more disorder there is in a system, the higher its entropy is. The law of entropy holds that the entire universe is unavoidably proceeding towards a more disordered, unplanned, and disorganized state."


"The truth of the second law of thermodynamics, or the law of entropy, has been experimentally and theoretically established. All foremost scientists agree that the law of entropy will remain the principle paradigm for the foreseeable future. Albert Einstein, the greatest scientist of our age, described it as the "premier law of all of science." Sir Arthur Eddington also referred to it as the "supreme metaphysical law of the entire universe." - Jeremy Rifkin, Antropy: A New World View, Viking Press, New York, 1980, p. 6.


The theory of evolution is just that, a theory, and a poor one at that. Physics is a science, a real science that describes the real world, whether that world be on Earth or some distant galaxy, far, far away. The second law of thermodynamics is a universal law that has never been violated, ever.

 

[sublime911]

God created everything and it separated into various kinds or species. Things have been devolving ever since sin entered into the world. Micro-evolution does happen that is a variation within a kind of animal. Kinds are described as two animals that look alike that can create offspring. Microevolution has never been proven to be negative or positive in all cases.

I say devolved because the farther back you go everything seems to get bigger, stronger and better suited for living.

Bigger does not always equal better. The larger something is the more resources it will need to sustain itself over a smaller version.