Evolution vs. Creationism

[Pilgrim 33]

assuming that Being an evolutionist makes you a humanist,

wrong assumption. evolutionism proceeds FROM humanism


So, will that do?

Of course, not, you've yet to refute the specifics within the evidentiary links
presented below that contradict all of your assumptions.

1. Public Education's Twisted Roots
2. The Dilemma of Democratic Education
3. THE SECULAR HUMANISM ALLEGATION

1. Genesis of A Humanist Manifesto
2. Genesis of A Humanist Manifesto: Chapter 13: Publication of "A Humanist Manifesto"

1. Humanist Manifesto I - 1933
2. Humanist Manifesto II - 1973
3. HUMANIST MANIFESTO - 2000
4. Humanist Manifesto III - 2003

1. A Chronological History of the New World Order
2. New World Order Quotes
3. The New World Order (NWO) An Overview
4. BRAVE NEW WORLD NEWS
5. The Insider
6. Jeremiah's Project

 

[Pilgrim 33]

As in 1933, humanists still believe that traditional theism, especially faith in the prayer-hearing God, assumed to love and care for persons, to hear and understand their prayers, and to be able to do something about them, is an unproved and outmoded faith. Salvationism, based on mere affirmation, still appears as harmful, diverting people with false hopes of heaven hereafter. Reasonable minds look to other means for survival.-The Manifesto's Long-Term Impact

How can Christianity and ANY branch of humanism (evolutionism included) be mixed with aims such as this?

 

[ProtestantDan]

A brief response to post #588 that you are so proud of:

Site 1: quotes, possibly taken out of context, that show nothing more than personal opinions. They do not in any way give credence to the notion of global educational conspiracy.

Site 2: more personal/organizational opinions on beliefs. How does this site definitively state that Christians cannot believe in evolution? And if they do, who gave them the authority to make such unfounded and untrue accusations?

Site 3: personal opinion that is biased from the beginning that seeks to justify the inclusion of religion into public schools, a direct violation of the Religious Freedom Clause of the First Amendment.

All of these sites are personal opinions. In a later post you refute my/our evidence as personal opinion, whilst you do the same thing.

 

[Ondoher]

How can Christianity and ANY branch of humanism (evolutionism included) be mixed with aims such as this?

Evolution is not a branch of humanism. It is a scientific theory. You appear to be confused.

 

[ProtestantDan]

The belief that evolution proceeds from humanism is a personal opinion you have expressed. Me? I'd like to use the internationally accepted idea that evolution was kicked off by Charles Darwin when he published Origin of Species.

 

[Pilgrim 33]

...[snipped obfuscation...]

why are you steadfastly adamant in refusing to directly and specifically reply to links provided that prove without a doubt the antithesis and uselessness of blending God and creation into one that is humanism's and it's child offshoot, evolution and as presented herein?

Humanism and evolutionism (among numerous other humanist issues) in education:

1. Public Education's Twisted Roots
2. The Dilemma of Democratic Education
3. THE SECULAR HUMANISM ALLEGATION

Background on humanism:

1. Genesis of A Humanist Manifesto
2. Genesis of A Humanist Manifesto: Chapter 13: Publication of "A Humanist Manifesto"

Worldwide humanist declarations against religion and Christianity

1. Humanist Manifesto I - 1933
2. Humanist Manifesto II - 1973
3. HUMANIST MANIFESTO - 2000
4. Humanist Manifesto III - 2003

Perspectives from both sides:

1. A Chronological History of the New World Order
2. New World Order Quotes
3. The New World Order (NWO) An Overview
4. BRAVE NEW WORLD NEWS
5. The Insider
6. Jeremiah's Project

 

[Arikay]

"wrong assumption. evolutionism proceeds FROM humanism"

And it is a logical fallacy to assume that because evolution proceeds from humanism (a false statement, but irrelavent here) that anyone who accepts in evolution believes in humanism or is anyway supporting it.

That is like saying that america was founded by racists, so anyone who loves america is a racist. (Disclaimer, for those that do not understand the idea of examples, I am not calling you a racist).

If you are willing to learn, a good starter guide on logical fallacies,
http://www.eblaforum.org/library/philosophy/intphi16.html

 

[ProtestantDan]

Please refute this evidence, care of dictionary.com

Religion: Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe

Science: The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Evolution: Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.

Thus, evolution is a science. Thus, evolution is not a religion.
Notice how no credit for the discovery of evolution was given to humanism.

 

[Pilgrim 33]

evolutionism proceeds FROM humanism"

And it is a logical fallacy to assume that because evolution proceeds from humanism (a false statement, but irrelavent here) that anyone who accepts in evolution believes in humanism or is anyway supporting it.

even if they don't realize it.

2 Thessalonians 2:11, "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

because they put themselves and their heart's wannabes ahead of what God wants.

 

[Pilgrim 33]

Please refute this evidence.

Please refute this evidence:

1. 1. Humanist Manifesto I - 1933
   2. Humanist Manifesto II - 1973
   3. HUMANIST MANIFESTO - 2000
   4. Humanist Manifesto III - 2003

Dunphy, John J., "A Religion for a New Age," The Humanist, vol. 43 (January/February 1983), pp. 23-26.

page 26

"I am convinced that the battle for humankind’s future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: a religion of humanity that recognizes and respects the spark of what theologians call divinity in every human being. These teachers must embody the same selfless dedication as the most rabid fundamentalist preachers, for they will be ministers of another sort, utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to convey humanist values in whatever subject they teach, regardless of the educational level—preschool day care or large state university. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new—the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with all its adjacent evils and misery, and the new faith of humanism, resplendent in its promise of a world in which the never-realized Christian ideal of ‘love thy neighbor’ will finally be achieved."



​

David Noebel, “Understanding the Times: The Religious Worldviews of our Day and the Search for Truth,” Summit Ministries, Manitou Springs, CO (Harvest House Publishers, Eugene, OR, 1991, Seventh Printing, 1995)

Page 267:

"Belief in evolution is crucial to Humanism’s worldview as are its atheistic theology and naturalistic philosophy....Without the theory of evolution, the Humanist would have to rely on God as the explanation for life, which would necessarily destroy his atheism and hence his Humanism."







​

Page 288, under "Summary:"

".......with an atheistic base the subject of origins calls for the self-generation of non-living matter. Marxist biology defends spontaneous generation despite the fact that it is a pre-scientific concept dating back to the Egyptians, Babylonians, and Greeks. Engels says he will "believe" in spontaneous generation no matter what Louis Pasteur and other scientists say or do to disprove it. In fact, Engels sees no scientific experiments capable of disproving the theory. The Marxist attitude is simple: given time, carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and energy from the sun, matter is obligated to create life. According to the Marxist, we are the practical result of just such a materialistic matrix."





​

science affirms that the human species is an emergence from natural evolutionary forces-Humanist Manifesto II

 

[Arikay]

Pilgrim, you must take things in context, actually read the entire sentence.

The fact that you are willing to dishonestly take my post out of context and to not bother to understand even a single sentence, suggests that there is no point in wasting my time.

 

[TheUndeadFish]

Pilgrim, where in all those links is the Theory of Evolution definitively described as being a result of Humanism rather than just being a scientific theory which humanists might happen to use to support their own philisophical ideas?

 

[ProtestantDan]

Pilgrim, where in all those links is the Theory of Evolution definitively described as being a result of Humanism rather than just being a scientific theory which humanists might happen to use to support their own philisophical ideas?

The simple answer is, it isn't. Notice how the first three links were removed from subsequent posts. I refuted them in an earlier post, and I intend to do the same tomorrow when I get some time. Unless of course somebody beats me to it, which is quite likely. TheUndeadFish seems to have gotten us started.

 

[Pilgrim 33]

science affirms that the human species is an emergence from natural evolutionary forces-Humanist Manifesto II

Pilgrim, where in all those links is the Theory of Evolution definitively described as being a result of Humanism rather than just being a scientific theory which humanists might happen to use to support their own philisophical ideas?

Spend a little time usin the search engine in http://www.americanhumanist.org/


Also, fwiw, these documents (esp the Humanist Manifestos) cannot be passively read.

1. Humanist Manifesto I - 1933
2. Humanist Manifesto II - 1973
3. HUMANIST MANIFESTO - 2000
4. Humanist Manifesto III - 2003

Dunphy, John J., "A Religion for a New Age," The Humanist, vol. 43 (January/February 1983), pp. 23-26.

page 26

"I am convinced that the battle for humankind’s future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: a religion of humanity that recognizes and respects the spark of what theologians call divinity in every human being. These teachers must embody the same selfless dedication as the most rabid fundamentalist preachers, for they will be ministers of another sort, utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to convey humanist values in whatever subject they teach, regardless of the educational level—preschool day care or large state university. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new—the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with all its adjacent evils and misery, and the new faith of humanism, resplendent in its promise of a world in which the never-realized Christian ideal of ‘love thy neighbor’ will finally be achieved."

​

David Noebel, “Understanding the Times: The Religious Worldviews of our Day and the Search for Truth,” Summit Ministries, Manitou Springs, CO (Harvest House Publishers, Eugene, OR, 1991, Seventh Printing, 1995)

Page 267:

"Belief in evolution is crucial to Humanism’s worldview as are its atheistic theology and naturalistic philosophy....Without the theory of evolution, the Humanist would have to rely on God as the explanation for life, which would necessarily destroy his atheism and hence his Humanism."​

​

and, also, back to HERE
​

​

 

[Pilgrim 33]

Notice how the first three links were removed from subsequent posts. .

That's a totally unfair, unfounded and insulting accusation, especially, since all anyone has to do is go back a few pages to see all numerous occurrences in their entirety.

But, nonetheless, happy to oblige and present them for your purusal once again...

1. Public Education's Twisted Roots
2. The Dilemma of Democratic Education
3. THE SECULAR HUMANISM ALLEGATION

1. Genesis of A Humanist Manifesto
2. Genesis of A Humanist Manifesto: Chapter 13: Publication of "A Humanist Manifesto"

1. Humanist Manifesto I - 1933
2. Humanist Manifesto II - 1973
3. HUMANIST MANIFESTO - 2000
4. Humanist Manifesto III - 2003

1. A Chronological History of the New World Order
2. New World Order Quotes
3. The New World Order (NWO) An Overview
4. BRAVE NEW WORLD NEWS
5. The Insider
6. Jeremiah's Project

 

[issa]

can somebody please summarize the status of the two arguments? this has become a pretty long thread already...

 

[Ampoliros]

can somebody please summarize the status of the two arguments? this has become a pretty long thread already...

Dunno, really.

*munches popcorn*

 

[Arikay]

Status of evolution and creationism?

Scientifically speaking:
Evolution- alive and kicking, tones of evidence being found everyday that supports it and in the last couple years we have gained a huge amount of evidence answering many of the critiques.

Creationism- Dead. Young earth creationism RIP 1850. Creationism can't stand up to scrutiny, and has been falsified in many fields over and over again.

 

[ProtestantDan]

That's a totally unfair, unfounded and insulting accusation, especially, since all anyone has to do is go back a few pages to see all numerous occurrences in their entirety.

But, nonetheless, happy to oblige and present them for your purusal once again...

It's not completely unfounded. Look at post 623, where I refute the first three, then look at 630. The next post you direct at me, you removed those first three. Go ahead and add them back in if you wish, and I'll refute them again like I did in post 623.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

It's been a while since this subject has come up but as I recall there are heavy developmental roots in the 1880-1920 time frame when the earlier genesis of what later would also assume the philosophic ideology of public education effecting today even the NEA, something most teacher's appear to be unaware of.

Links snipped

Am I still being unclear? What I am asking you for is evidence that supports your claim that the text books were systematically altered to conceal any culpability that evolutionary theory or science in general may have had in deliberately fostering a master race ideology. Yet what you give me are a series of links showing attempts to reform the American public school system in such a way that science is taught rather than religion. Whilst I agree it is regrettable that people would try to remove RE from schools entirely, nothing you have presented is evidence of the cover up of evolutionary capability in master race ideology.

I ask you once more;

Since you made the claim that the public school system was deliberately reformed to conceal an evolutionary agenda of promoting master race ideology can you provide a single shred of evidence to support your claim?

Also, can I ask you , since we live in a period of increasing globalisation and it is very easy for Americans to speak to Europeans, and the British school system still includes many of the things your links imply are being eradicated from the US school system, how does this fit with your global humanist conspiracy theory?

Ghost