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Evolution - Speciation finally observed in the wild?

Justatruthseeker

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Why did one species (call it species A) vanish, and where did the 'slightly different' species that replaced it (species B) come from? Did all the female members of species A follow Hamlet's advice to Ophelia ('Get thee to a nunnery'), and if so, why?

Where did the first members of species B come from? They didn't originate by spontaneous generation from non-living matter ('All life comes from life', according to the law of biogenesis), so they must have had parents. What species did these parents belong to?

By the way, can you cite an example of an actual sequence 'where one species vanishes to be replaced by another, slightly different, one'?

No, no, no. Species B magically evolved from species A. There was no need for A to mate with another. It had no parents, just a parent. Don’t you understand evolution?

And species A is one of those missing common ancestors that can’t be found. It vanished because it never existed.

They just ignore that the Chinook is the result of mating between Husky and Mastiff. So too in the fossil record. Subspecies A mates with subspecies B and produces subspecies C. They just like to leave out half of the equation and mistakenly call them separate species. The two shall become one flesh. Hence A (1) mates with B (2) and crates a new variation C (1).
 
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tas8831

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Please tell me that you really do think the platypus has a bill like a duck, for that would be just the level of knowledge I would expect from a creationist.

Since you all claim the same ancestor led to it as led to horses and man, don’t you think we should find some kind of intermediaries between the forms?
View attachment 214824
Or is just one of these common ancestors that split too much to ask for?

Had it occurred to you that it may be the case that each and every phylogenetic tree ever presented was not actually constructed using data from every known living thing?


I am reminded of the laughable tale of Walter Brown, PhD (mechanical engineering), YEC, who once declared that his teenage son had disproved evolution for he referred to a paper that had a phylogenetic tree that placed rattlesnakes closer to humans than chimps.

Pity for Brown, for it took an honest, competent evolutionist 30 seconds to discover that the paper in question did not even use chimp data.


Still waiting for you to present the fossils of the breeding pair that produced the first Asian person and the first African person such that the Asian and the African could hybridize to form an Afro-Asian, since according to you, that is how all variation arises.
 
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Astrophile

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No, no, no. Species B magically evolved from species A. There was no need for A to mate with another. It had no parents, just a parent. Don’t you understand evolution?

And species A is one of those missing common ancestors that can’t be found. It vanished because it never existed.

They just ignore that the Chinook is the result of mating between Husky and Mastiff. So too in the fossil record. Subspecies A mates with subspecies B and produces subspecies C. They just like to leave out half of the equation and mistakenly call them separate species. The two shall become one flesh. Hence A (1) mates with B (2) and crates a new variation C (1).

This isn't answering my question. Radagast said
And the fossil record certainly shows sequences where one species vanishes to be replaced by another, slightly different, one.

Do you accept that such sequences occur in the fossil record, and, if so, how do you explain them?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Please tell me that you really do think the platypus has a bill like a duck, for that would be just the level of knowledge I would expect from a creationist.



Had it occurred to you that it may be the case that each and every phylogenetic tree ever presented was not actually constructed using data from every known living thing?


I am reminded of the laughable tale of Walter Brown, PhD (mechanical engineering), YEC, who once declared that his teenage son had disproved evolution for he referred to a paper that had a phylogenetic tree that placed rattlesnakes closer to humans than chimps.

Pity for Brown, for it took an honest, competent evolutionist 30 seconds to discover that the paper in question did not even use chimp data.


Still waiting for you to present the fossils of the breeding pair that produced the fist Asian person and the first African person such that the Asian and the African could hybridize to form an Afro-Asian, since according to you, that is how all variation arises.
It’s you that claims fossils show a phylogenic tree. It’s you that claims common ancestors split to become other species.

All I see now is you admitting no common ancestor can be found for any of these claimed splits.

Unlike you I am not claiming a fish split into both a anphibian and reptile. Nor that amphibians split to become mammals and birds.

You have Fossil evidence that humans have always been human. It’s only when we get to the point where supposedly humans and ape split, does the fossil record suddenly become non existent.

I’m not claiming Adam and Eve split to become different forms altogether. The fossil evidence supports me, not you, because as far back as you can trace man, they are always man. Race not observable in fossils.

Unless you wish to call both Denisovans and Neanderthal a separate race.

As a matter of fact new findings are challenging your claims of this phylogenic tree you rely on.

Discovery of Oldest DNA Scrambles Human Origins Picture

I simply claim humans have always been humans. If you want to call them Neanderthals, or H. Erectus, that’s fine.

But it’s your claim of a common ancestor that split, so we can’t find one example of this common ancestor. Not just for man, but for any species where this claimed split took place.

Instead you have fully formed human fossils and fully formed ape fossils. We won’t count the orangutans skulls and pigs teeth evolutionists have used in an attempt to provide “evidence”. We won’t talk about piltdown man, hesperopithecus or Nebraska man, Pithecanthropus or Java man and the Wadjak skulls debacle, sinanthropus or peeking man, homo habilis, ramapithecus, or Australopithecus.

No we won’t show you really have so little evidence they find it necessary to manufacture it. Or how they mistake pigs teeth as human teeth, or orangutans skulls as human skulls.

No, we won’t discuss your tendency to see exactly what you want to see.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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This isn't answering my question. Radagast said


Do you accept that such sequences occur in the fossil record, and, if so, how do you explain them?

Oh no. I am sorry. I was being sarcastic, and answering as an evolutionist. I agree with you 100%.

I say creature A mated with creature B and produced creature C. Just as Husky mates with Mastiff and produces the Chinook. Such is why the Chinook appears fully formed, like every creature in the fossil record.

A creature may go extinct' and it’s offspring live on, but none certainly just vanish and a new one pop up.
 
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HitchSlap

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What? Speciation either occurs or it doesn't (and I say it does), but it never made a fish into an amphibian or an ape into a human even after many many times....
Of course it did. You need to catch up buddy, you're a 158 years behind.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Of course it did. You need to catch up buddy, you're a 158 years behind.
And yet all fossils always remain the same across millions of years. Not a single common ancestor that split can be produced. New forms appear suddenly, with no intermediarie, fully formed and functional.

Just like the Chinook, pizzly, grolar and every other variation appears suddenly, fully formed and functional. And neither Husky, Mastiff, polar bear, grizzly bear, or any other evolved into them.
 
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tyke

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AV1611VET

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And down the rabbit hole I go.................
Make sure that's not a rabbit hole from the Precambrian, or evolutionists will have to make excuses why it won't pwn evolution.
 
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Kylie

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No, no, no. Species B magically evolved from species A. There was no need for A to mate with another. It had no parents, just a parent. Don’t you understand evolution?

Well, you sure don't seem to understand it...
 
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Jimmy D

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Are you saying we have convicted people and searched for suspects based upon DNA evidence that is not definitive?

Not one single piece of DNA left at the crime scene required that the detectives first know what “race” the individual came from to begin their hunt for suspects among that “race”

So according to you this should be impossible.

This response to Sarah's post demonstrates that you either have difficulty with reading comprehension, are willfully ignoring what is said to you and plowing ahead regardless, or really don't understand the topic at hand. My guess is the latter two.
 
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Jimmy D

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Not a single solitary one, without first asking us to conjecture a common ancestor that is in each and every case, missing.

Let’s look at whales for example. Their prime piece of evidence is (convienently?) missing the only two parts of the skull that would A) support their claim or B) falsify their claim. Both the patch behind the braincase were a blowhole would be is missing, and the tip of the snout if it had nostrils instead. Convienent that both peices are missing? I’ll let the reader decide based upon their track record of falsifying and misidentifying evidence.

Oh, and let me add, that the variation we do observe is from mating.

Husky mates with Mastiff and produces the Chinook. Neither Husky nor Mastiff evolve into the Chinook.

Asian mates with African and produces the Afro-Asian. Neither the Asian nor the African evolve into the Afro-Asian.

Polar bear mates with grizzly and produces the pizzly or grolar. Neither the polar bear nor grizzly evolve into the grolar or pizzly.

Ground finch mated with tree finch to produce finches (no official name yet). Neither the ground finch nor the tree finch evolved into the unamed finch.

There is no reason whatsoever to ignore how we observe variation to enter the species for some imaginary process that isn’t how we actually observe variation to occurr in the species in the fossil record.

Those creatures in the fossil record also mated with others and produced variation. Not a single one evolved, just as per observation......

And this is why every type of creature found is found fully formed for that type. Just as are the Chinook, Afro-Asian, pizzly, grolar, unamed finches, and every single new variation ever observed. They were given birth to from interbreeding, not from a mythical process of evolution.


Hybridization of "sub species" is the only way variation enters a population? Priceless! You really can't see the grand canyon sized gap in your logic?
 
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Jimmy D

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View attachment 214823
Since you all claim the same ancestor led to it as led to horses and man, don’t you think we should find some kind of intermediaries between the forms?
View attachment 214824
Or is just one of these common ancestors that split too much to ask for?

Of course, tell me, what two species mated to create the platypus? A duck and a beaver? Or was it magic?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Hybridization of "sub species" is the only way variation enters a population? Priceless! You really can't see the grand canyon sized gap in your logic?
So let’s see, you claim every human is born with over 100 mutations.

Yet Asian remain Asian, African remain African, Latino remain Latino, etc, etc, etc. despite all your claimed mutations.

Yet when Asian mates with African, or Latino, or any, you see variation right before your eyes at the species level.

Let’s see, E. coli mutated over 100,000 generations, comparable to human lifespans equals 12 million years of mutation. We ended up with what? E. coli.

I guess if you want to get superficial and claim a change in eye color once in awhile changes species, go for it.

But when it comes down to it eye color, hair color or skin color is all just superficial.

Genetic Study Shows Skin Color Is Only Skin Deep | Smart News | Smithsonian

But go ahead, show us where mutation has made the same change as Husky mating with Mastiff and producing the Chinook? Oh that’s right, we got to wait a million years before you can show me, right?

And yet I can show you change in what, 28 weeks for dogs, nine months for humans. Lol, you people are something else. You got evidence except you won’t accept it because it doesn’t require mutations to explain it. Just laughable.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Of course, tell me, what two species mated to create the platypus? A duck and a beaver? Or was it magic?
That’s a good question, but since it’s been the same as far back as we can trace it.......

Ahh, but this is where you insert the magic missing common ancestor, correct?

And since it has no other subspecies to mate with, it is going to remain the same. Unless man interferes and starts selectively breeding it for traits.

Or we can accept the evidence and propose a special creation, since every animal ends on these missing common ancestors. Every single one of them.... every single place evolutionists propose a creature split to become another creature, suddenly nothing can be found.
 
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