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that's the most ridiculous interpretation I have ever seen.
Let's see what chapter 2 actually says...
"Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed"
So it is clear that man was not formed before the garden..... Since the garden had already been planted and man was then put in it.....
Now the other misconceptions...
"Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them"
So it is clear all the other animals had already been formed, they were at this time simply brought to Adam to be named........
Both align perfectly except in the minds of those that NEED a reason to reject truth.....
Speaking of the Bible, how many times does It say God put Adam into the garden?That's not what the King James Bible says.
Relevant, and contradictory. Not only contradictory with science, but with the other chapter as well.
You are arguing semantics. If something has not been made, it does not exist.
Quote mining is when someone takes a quote by itself and ignores all the other lines around it. I have never done that. I have done the exact opposite - pointed out how the quotes around it contradict it.
Fully understood is the problem you seem to have.
And it contradicts the order given in Gen 1.
Your argument that "formed" means something different than "created" is not supported. You are simply claiming that they are different. A person reading these chapters would be unlikely to reach the same conclusion you have.
HA! I never said I was the first one. People have been pointing out this blunder for ages.
By pointing out a passage and then referring to other passages in the same chapter and the next chapter.
If you had bothered to actually read my post, you would have seen that I answered that question in the very next sentence. Are you deliberately ignoring me?
Then you are saying that God FORMED the animals in Gen 1:25, which is before he made Adam and Eve.
I think it's the claim, "This is really what happened" being used to get people to believe by assuring them that it is true. Without evidence, assurances are meaningless.
Are the other versions of the Bible imperfect?
Unfortunately, here is does not say that God formed them until AFTER he had made Adam.
Now, if the passage said, "And out of the ground the LORD God had previously formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air..." then I would grant you this point. But it doesn't say this.
There's nothing in the passage that indicates this is the correct interpretation.
Seems to me that you are insisting that this can be the only correct interpretation because otherwise you'd have to admit that the Bible is flawed.
There's nothing in the Bible to support your conclusion. Somebody reading Genesis 1 would not assume that God created the animals but then kept them unmade so he could bring them forth later. Indeed, Genesis 1 states very clearly that the Earth and the water BRING THEM FORTH, and that happens BEFORE God made Adam and Eve.
The way you phrased it was rather awkward. What you meant was "Chapter 2 suggests we have started the origin story for the garden of eden."
One does not usually speaking of entering a story.
Because there's nothing in there to suggest that God was starting over.
Yes.
I'm suggesting that the Bible was written by collecting many different stories, so it is natural that they will not all be consistent.
I'm not so blinded by religious belief that I have to decide on my conclusion before looking at the evidence.
You show me where I quote mined.
A perfectly consistent Bible would be a start. Also, a passage that clearly and unambiguously describes scientific knowledge that could not possibly be known by the people of the time - perhaps something about the construction of atoms. I remember reading something on here about the movement of the planets and how the sun shines because of nuclear fusion. If the Bible spoke of that, I would find it pretty convincing.
Because, as I have said already, reading the Bible does not support this idea.
You make a big deal about Genesis 1:25 to suipport your claim that God created the animals from the earth but they remained unmade until they were brought before Adam. However, you seem to have completely missed Genesis 1:24 which states very clearly that the Earth was bringing forth every creature and God saw that it was good. Can't do that if the animals were still unmade!
Because you are so arrogant that you think that just because you like your beliefs that everyone will like them. And you are also so arrogant that you don't care about what I actually want for myself, but instead you are convinced that your way is the best way.
No, I don't want you to be an atheist. I just want you to be able to think critically and also understand that viewing the Bible as a flawed work of man doesn't mean you have to stop being a Christian.
Your atheist faith is built on thoughts and reasoning of men. My Christian faith is built on personal experience and a relationship with God.
He came to me and proved that he didn't exist in such a way as to be indisputable.
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Because I look at it in the context of Genesis 2:18 which clearly indicates that God formed the animals AFTER he had made man, and also in the context of Genesis 1:20 and Genesis 1:24 which clearly show that God brings forth the animals from the water and from the Earth - BRING FORTH, so they weren't kept in an unmade form as you claim - and then God doesn't create humans until Genesis 1:27.
Ha. You're the one who has been relying on a totally unsupported interpretation of the Bible for your position. I have constantly been providing passages to support my claim.
Are you kidding me?
In Genesis 1, it says God made the animals and then he made man and woman at the same time.
In Genesis 2, it says God made man, then he made the animals, and then he created woman.
Are you deliberately ignoring everything I say?
According to Genesis 1, yes.
Homework for you:
On what day did the whales and winged fowl appear swimming in the oceans and flying in the skies?
According to Genesis 1, yes.
Homework for you:
On what day did the whales and winged fowl appear swimming in the oceans and flying in the skies?
You really don't know what I am talking about? Here, let me show you.
The person I was speaking to was literally saying he wants to spread the word of his religion to everyone possible. Even you've done it:
No, I don't want you to be an atheist. I just want you to be able to think critically and also understand that viewing the Bible as a flawed work of man doesn't mean you have to stop being a Christian.
He came to me and proved that he didn't exist in such a way as to be indisputable.
Excellant we agree, we have chronological order in chapter 1 and chapter 2. The chronological order is relevant.
Here is the Scriptural chronological order of Genesis 1 and 2.
Before the Day...God creates air, dust and water but everything made contains death. Genesis 1:1-2
1st Day...Jesus/Lord God comes forth from within the invisible Spirit of God into the physical world. Genesis 1:3
2nd Day...God the Trinity makes Adam's firmament, which He calls Heaven and puts it underwater, on the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:6-8
3rd Day...Jesus/Lord God makes Adam, then plants, herbs and trees Genesis 2:4-9 to go into the Garden of Eden. He also makes our present world.
4th Day...Jesus makes the Sun, Moon and Stars to go into the present world. Genesis 1:16 In man's time, it was 13.8 Billion years ago.
5th Day...God the Trinity creates "every living creature that moveth" from the water. Genesis 1:21 In man's time, it was 3.8 Billion years ago
6th Day...Jesus makes the "common ancestors" of animals made from the ground, Genesis 2:19 then He makes Eve Genesis 2:22, Adam disobeys and is "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually, with Eve, on the present 6th Day, the Day of Salvation 2Co 6:2 AFTER Cain kills Abel. Genesis 5:1-2 This brings us to the present Day at Genesis 1:27
From Genesis 1:28-31, Scripture speaks of FUTURE events which happen AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon. That's God's Truth Scripturally.
Welcome back!Hello there saint
Thank you for this reply brother. I like you.
God bless you
Speaking of the Bible, how many times does It say God put Adam into the garden?
Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
If you say "twice," then which one is out of order?
If you say "neither," then what's the deal with Genesis 2 being contradictory?
I submit Genesis 1 and 2 are a frame narration, and those who disagree are disagreeing with the said purpose of trying to make those two chapters look contradictory, rather than complimentary.
My position is Gen 2:19 is possibly past-tense and a form of 'remember those animals God formed', iam not completely sold on this.
Im just trying to rap with you.
Your position is Gen 2:19 is a blunder and a repeat of creation, ie animals were created for Adam? Please correct me if im wrong?
Heads up im not 100% on the explanation i gave u. I made a suggestion based on the chronological order of things to get the ball running. You were correct it was speculation - i was not there, nor have i met the author of Genesis.
For the time being i will withdraw my comments of quote mining and misrepresentation.
My core is i have a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit and i have accepted Christ as my saviour. I believe the Bible has no error and am very happy with it. I followed the Christian formula and got a result. I know God exists.
The difference between you and i is, i have faith in the words of the Bible, you have faith in the conclusions, and reasoning of men.
You and i accept an appeal to authority.
My authority is God, your authority is men.
My complete trust is in God, your complete trust is in men and their conclusions.
No matter how much you like the dogma of the scientific method, its always a human who draws a conclusion.
Lets try a different tact.
Lets look at the concordance and check out the original Hebrew.
Strongs concordance
Gen 2:19
And out of the ground 127
the LORD 3068
God 430
formed 3335 8799
every beast 2416
of the field 7704,
and every fowl 5775
of the air 8064
; and brought 935 8686
[them] unto Adam 120
to see 7200 8800
what he would call 7121 8799
them: and whatsoever Adam 120
called 7121 8799
every living 2416
creature 5315,
that 1931
[was] the name thereof 8034.
(Adam: or, the man)
H127 is where we want to look.
Pronounce: ad-aw-maw'
Strong: H127
Orig: from 119; soil (from its general redness):--country, earth, ground, husband(-man) (-ry), land. H119
Use: TWOT-25b Noun Feminine
Grk Strong: G1093 G5561
1) ground, land
1a) ground (as general, tilled, yielding sustenance)
1b) piece of ground, a specific plot of land
1c) earth substance (for building or constructing)
1d) ground as earth's visible surface
1e) land, territory, country
1f) whole inhabited earth
1g) city in Naphtali
There is nothing there in that word to suggest past tense but not enough to suggest repeated and contradicted creation.
How about a compromise.
Of all the species of beasts and flying creatures that had already been created and had spread over the face of the earth and the firmament of the heavens, the LORD God now formed particular specimens for the purpose of presenting them all before man in the midst of the Garden.
This explanation would satisfy my concerns as well as yours.
What say you?
By the way love that picture from princess bride. Do you like the movie as well?
Is it the 5th day?
One could deduce but i prefer to hear it from your mouth.
Wants wrong with that. You are trying to spread your words to anyone who will listen.
Why is the thought of accepting Christ into your heart such an impossiblity or absolute uncertainty?
And what would seperating me from the Bible accomplish?
Why do you want to do that?
Your atheist faith is built on thoughts and reasoning of men.
Love it, please continue. How did a God you believe does not exist came to you?
Welcome back!
What?
Correctasahihi.If I say what happened, and then I tell the story again going into more detail, then you would expect my original story to be consistent with the later more detailed story.
I'll usually consider other options first before I play the LIAR card.Kylie said:If my later, more detailed story disagreed with my earlier less details story, you would think I was lying.
Post 835Kylie said:That's what I think about the Bible, because the later, more detailed story in Gen 2 disagrees with the earlier less detailed story in Genesis 1.
I wssn't aware there was any doubt speciation happens especially amoung birds.According to the journal Science, following a 31 year study of Darwin's Finches on the Galapagos Islands, rapid hybridization and speciation has been bserved in the wild after a migrant finch managed to breed successfully and establish a colony.
This, hopefully will provide evidence for those people who declare that speciation has never been observed - well it has now.
The BBC website has a readable outline for the study but it is free to read (after registration) at the Science Journal website.
Let the excuses and the tap dancing begin!!
BBC : Bird seen becoming new species
So you're attempting to argue a point you don't even entirely believe?
You sound like an old person trying to use modern lingo so the kids will think he's cool. It's not workin
So you are just playing Devil's advocate?
Thank you.
Of course, other people have claimed to use God as their authority and reached very different conclusions than you
My position is that Genesis 1 gives an account of creation, and that Genesis 2 gives a different account of creation that is not compatible with what is described in Genesis 1.
I still see nothing here to indicate anything more than God uses the ground and water as a material to make the animals from, just as a sculptor would use clay.
I say that trying to make up something that fits old stories is not a very good way of arriving at the truth
Sorry, Genesis 2:19 makes it clear that God does not form the birds until AFTER Adam was made, and we've established that was done on the sixth day.
Love it.
When have I ever said to anyone, "Hey, you should be an atheist"? I've explained why I disagree with theists, but I am not on a mission to convert as many people as possible to atheism.
It's not. I'd be perfectly happy to do it. All I ask for first is adequate evidence.
t may amaze you, but I don't. Like I said, I'm not on a mission to convert people. I simply want people to think critically about their beliefs.
There are many people who do this and remain Christians. My husband is one of them. I've had discussions with him that have lead to him examining why he believes what he believes.
Sometimes he's changed his views (he used to think that belief in God was required to get into Heaven, but he doesn't now),
Religious faith is built on the interpretations of ancient texts made by flawed men.
Science is based on an investigation of reality.
No idea. But apparently God found away. And his evidence for his non-existence was indisputable. How can you dispute this evidence when by its very nature it is indisputable
So do I.The kids dont think im cool but my mother thinks i am.
The animals that God paraded before Adam in Genesis 2:19 are the same animals He created in Genesis 1:25.Doesn't change the fact God created animals BEFORE Adam in Gen 1 and AFTER Adam in Gen 2.
Doesn't change the fact God created animals BEFORE Adam in Gen 1 and AFTER Adam in Gen 2.
The animals that God paraded before Adam in Genesis 2:19 are the same animals He created in Genesis 1:25.
Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
In addition, when Genesis 1 ends, Adam & Eve are married.
God even talks to them:
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
But in Genesis 2, it speaks of a time when Eve didn't even exist as yet.
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