Evolution - Speciation finally observed in the wild?

Kylie · Aug 22, 2018

AV1611VET said:
If you have to ask this question, you might want to stick with pool.

Which category do automobils fall? are they submarines, airplanes, or a driving thing on the Earth?

So Angels live on Earth, do they? Matthew 22:30 says they are in Heaven.

Kylie · Aug 22, 2018

Aman777 said:
You are speaking of man's time which is different from God's time. We live on the SAME 6th Day/Age that Jesus lived on Earth. Also, you must know that Christians do NOT die since to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. 2Co 5:8

And thus my prophecy has come true!

I bolded the portion of the verse which includes Angels since they moveth. Amen?

So they move, that makes them a living thing ON THE EARTH?

Seems to me that there simply weren't sufficient categories provided, so you have to just mash them in where you can, ignoring the fact that they don't fulfill ALL the criteria required to be considered part of that group!

AV1611VET · Aug 23, 2018

Kylie said:
So Angels live on Earth, do they? Matthew 22:30 says they are in Heaven.

I don't know if they "live" on Earth.

As I understand it, angels' dwelling units are the stars.

Our sun may have been home to Lucifer.

Aman777 · Aug 23, 2018

Kylie said:
And thus my prophecy has come true!

So they move, that makes them a living thing ON THE EARTH?

Seems to me that there simply weren't sufficient categories provided, so you have to just mash them in where you can, ignoring the fact that they don't fulfill ALL the criteria required to be considered part of that group!

Any answer would fit your prophecy but here's the Scriptural one.

1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?

One of the names of God is (Elohim) or The Judges. Our Human destiny is to have dominion/rule over every living thing since Humans were made with the Ability to know both good and evil. Only God and Humans (descendants of Adam) have this Ability. Genesis 3:22 Your view contradicts Scripture.

Astrophile · Aug 23, 2018

Aman777 said:
Any answer would fit your prophecy but here's the Scriptural one.

1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?

One of the names of God is (Elohim) or The Judges. Our Human destiny is to have dominion/rule over every living thing since Humans were made with the Ability to know both good and evil. Only God and Humans (descendants of Adam) have this Ability. Genesis 3:22 Your view contradicts Scripture.

Has this got anything to do with observations of speciation?

Aman777 · Aug 23, 2018

Astrophile said:
Has this got anything to do with observations of speciation?

Of course it does since it shows that Humans (descendants of Adam) did NOT evolve from the last universal common ancestor on this Earth. That's because Adam NEVER took a step on the present Earth. That destroys the false assumptions of those who believe in the magic of evolutionary speciation.

Astrophile · Aug 24, 2018

Aman777 said:
Of course it does since it shows that Humans (descendants of Adam) did NOT evolve from the last universal common ancestor on this Earth. That's because Adam NEVER took a step on the present Earth. That destroys the false assumptions of those who believe in the magic of evolutionary speciation.

So how do you explain the observed development of a new species of finch in the Galapagos Islands, as described in the opening post?

tyke · Aug 24, 2018

But it's still a finch! LOL

Aman777 · Aug 24, 2018

Astrophile said:
So how do you explain the observed development of a new species of finch in the Galapagos Islands, as described in the opening post?

It's descent with modification within the finch kind, which is a temporary kind and subject to death since it was made by Jesus from the contaminated air, dust and water from the beginning. After Jesus returns, finches will become immortal since they were also created by God the Trinity, Gen 1:21 which makes them God's kind. Amen?

Kylie · Aug 24, 2018

AV1611VET said:
I don't know if they "live" on Earth.

As I understand it, angels' dwelling units are the stars.

Our sun may have been home to Lucifer.

So then, angels do NOT fit into any of the categories provided by Aman777, so the passage he quoted is completely irrelevant to this issue, isn't it?

Kylie · Aug 24, 2018

Aman777 said:
Any answer would fit your prophecy but here's the Scriptural one.

1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?

From my understanding, most people take that to mean fallen angels, since how could we judge sinless angels?

In any case, I think you are going off topic. My "prophecy" was that you would tell me that I was getting it wrong about the passage where Jesus said that some people who we with him would not die before the second coming. My comments about the angels were in response to another thing entirely. There's a big difference between what's going to happen and when it is going to happen.

One of the names of God is (Elohim) or The Judges. Our Human destiny is to have dominion/rule over every living thing since Humans were made with the Ability to know both good and evil. Only God and Humans (descendants of Adam) have this Ability. Genesis 3:22 Your view contradicts Scripture.

Actually, you are wrong. Humans were not made with the ability to know both good and evil. They only got this ability in Genesis 3:6 when they ate from the tree. Genesis 2:17 clearly states that this tree is what provides the knowledge of good and evil.

Turkana · Aug 25, 2018

xianghua said:
well, since speciation is only a variation, its not realy evolution.

When speciation occurs by definition it's macroevolution.

AV1611VET · Aug 25, 2018

Turkana said:
When speciation occurs by definition it's macroevolution.

Only on paper.

Aman777 · Aug 25, 2018

Kylie said:
From my understanding, most people take that to mean fallen angels, since how could we judge sinless angels?

Angels are not sinless since a third of them left their own estate (Heaven) their habitation (Heaven) to follow Satan. Jde 1:6 That is WHY they are in chains, today. I cannot tell you if Christians will judge them or other Angels, Scripturally. What I can tell you is that Eternity is a long time.

Kylie said:
Actually, you are wrong. Humans were not made with the ability to know both good and evil. They only got this ability in Genesis 3:6 when they ate from the tree. Genesis 2:17 clearly states that this tree is what provides the knowledge of good and evil.

Actually, it's the disobeying which plunged Adam/mankind into death. Until he ate from the tree he was commanded NOT to eat of, Gen 2:17 Adam knew only good, life and immortality. When Adam rejected the FIRST commandment given him, he lost his likeness like Jesus, his ability to fly, and his perfect body, which lived for billions of years before he sinned and was found in sinful FLESH. Only God and Adam/mankind have the supreme intelligence necessary to judge since we were made with the ability to know both good and evil. God Bless you

Aman777 · Aug 25, 2018

Turkana said:
When speciation occurs by definition it's macroevolution.

Actually, it was descent with modification within kinds for thousands of years until some unbelievers in God's Truth, made up the ToE, which is provably wrong.

AV1611VET · Aug 25, 2018

Turkana said:
It was YOUR contention that:

I did not say that in that link you provided.

You must have me mixed up with someone else.

Turkana · Aug 26, 2018

AV1611VET said:
I did not say that in that link you provided.

You must have me mixed up with someone else.

My bad indeed, still must get familiar with the make-up and format of this forum.

But, anyway, this still leaves us with the part you for sure produced, there you have it:

AV1611VET said:
Only on paper.

No not only on paper but observable in the fossil record:

when you start to excavate the geological column on any random spot worldwide - or nature carves it neatly out like the Grand Canyon - you invariably see a lot of geological layers and entire formations piled up on top of each other. On such a random spot you might see sandstone sitting on limestone with fish fossils, alternated with a thick layer of coal, then limestone again, followed by a layer of chalk etc. etc. That means that very same spot once was a desert, then a sea floor, then a forest, then a sea floor again, ending up in shallow coast line. And this is quite the general picture everywhere, irrespective where you start to dig and excavate.
the fossil record of each formation is unique in the way that it contains fossils that as an assembly are found in no other geological layers whatsoever. For instance, in the formation called Ediacaran, you find life forms that are entirely alien to what we see today and, conversely, you won't find any of the following groups of life forms in Ediacaran layers: fish, arthropods (insects, spiders, crusteceans and the like), amphibians, reptiles, dinosaurs, birds, mammals and land plants. As a matter of fact, during the Ediacaran there was even no land life at all, apart from bacterial and some algal mats. The life of the Ediacaran looked as if you were watching a SF movie.

In other words, there is no other interpretation possible for these observations: biodiversity changed over time. Whole new species, complete new classes, orders and even entire phyla of species emerge while they wnet extinct and henceforth are completely lacking in the older formations. Change in biodiversity? We have another word for that: evolution.

There is no other way to interpret this differently.

And, note that I did not make any assumptions about the factor time: I ONLY implied that geological formations differ greatly in biodiversity. I did not say anything about their age or about which one to be older or younger. I do not need to assert anything about time to prove that the fossil record unambiguously and inescapably forces us to conclude that biodiversity changed over time during the natural history of the earth. There is no getting around it.

Current instances of speciation ("macroevolution") are only the topping of the ice: it would be nice to detect such instances but the fossil record on its very own suffices greatly as evidence for macroevolution on an epic scale.

AV1611VET · Aug 26, 2018

Turkana said:
- or nature carves it neatly out like the Grand Canyon -

Nature didn't carve out the Grand Canyon.

The Grand Canyon is a result of Pangaea being pulled apart into five continents.

Kylie · Aug 26, 2018

Aman777 said:
Angels are not sinless since a third of them left their own estate (Heaven) their habitation (Heaven) to follow Satan. Jde 1:6 That is WHY they are in chains, today. I cannot tell you if Christians will judge them or other Angels, Scripturally. What I can tell you is that Eternity is a long time.

So that's only SOME angels then?

Actually, it's the disobeying which plunged Adam/mankind into death.

It seems to me that it was eating from the tree that would cause death as God said, just as how I could tell my daughter that if she eats a poisonous mushroom she could die.

If it wasn't the tree itself, are you saying that God was the one that caused their death? Isn't that like saying, "My daughter, if you eat of this plate of cookies, you shall surely die." And then kill her if she nibbles on them?

Until he ate from the tree he was commanded NOT to eat of, Gen 2:17 Adam knew only good, life and immortality.

And one thing he did NOT know was the concept of why it is bad to break rules.

When Adam rejected the FIRST commandment given him, he lost his likeness like Jesus, his ability to fly, and his perfect body, which lived for billions of years before he sinned and was found in sinful FLESH.

Wait...

Adam could FLY?

That's hilarious! Care to provide any support for this amazing claim?

Also, in what way was Adam like Jesus?

And the whole billions of years thing is a bit of a stretch, isn't it? Many Christians I have seen believe it to be literal 24 hour days. In any case, the idea of the days being metaphorical and actually lasting for billions of years only really started when science proved that the Earth was much older than the Bible said it was.

Only God and Adam/mankind have the supreme intelligence necessary to judge since we were made with the ability to know both good and evil. God Bless you

Yeah, nah.

If mankind already had the ability to know Good and Evil, then God wouldn't have been so against Adam and Eve eating from the tree that would give them that knowledge. In fact, Genesis 3:4-7 shows that their eyes were not opened until AFTER they ate. So your claim that we were made with the ability to tell good and evil right from the start is demonstrably WRONG.

Or do you think God was like, "Oh, they've eaten the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and now they are aware of good and evil, just like they were before they ate so nothing really has changed but I'm going to be upset that they broke the rule I arbitrarily imposed!"

AV1611VET · Aug 26, 2018

Kylie said:
Also, in what way was Adam like Jesus?

Adam was made the federal head of the human race.

And in so being, his sin nature, which resides in the flesh, was passed on to everyone, including us.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Jesus voluntarily was made the federal head of the human race as our Saviour.

Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Evolution - Speciation finally observed in the wild?

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