Evolution Proven!

[BananaSlug]

I agree with Nostromo. Hiding something is the same as lying.

 

[Cabal]

And again, the same issue arises with the embedded age scenario - tons of claims about embedded age, not history, but the embedded objects form a PATTERN that fits with the history of that dictated by natural processes. So again, it is not conclusive.

 

[Doveaman]

The furthest stars appear to be 78 billion light years away.

They use to think the furthest red-shifted light appeared to be 13.7 billion light years away as well. This was how the 13.7 billion years of age was determined.

Now that the red-shifted light appear to be 78 billion light years away, why have they not increased the age of the universe to 78 billion years as well, since age is determined by the most distant red-shifted light?

If the light wasn't red-shifted we'd think the light had taken 78 billion years to reach us and the universe would appear that old.

It was because the light was red-shifted that they determined the universe was 13.7 billion years old. So you are not making any sense.

The fact that it is red-shifted makes it appear to us that the universe is expanding and therefore the light didn't need that long to reach us.

The same can also be said about the red-shifted light that determined the 13.7 billion years of age. Maybe that red-shifted light didn't need to take that long to reach us either. Maybe that light is about 6000 years old and buy universe expansion it then appeared to be 13.7 billion light years away, and therefore appear to be 13.7 billion years old.

The universe looks about 13.7 billion years old, these things being taken into account.

The universe "looks" to be 13.7 billion years old based on light that is red-shifted. It also "looks" to be 78 billion years old base on light that is red-shifted.

Since Consensus Cosmology has decided the the universe is 13.7 billion years old based on light that is red-shifted, then the universe also has 78 billion years of age embedded within it based on light that is red-shifted.

This would mean that "embedded age" is scientific.

We either have young light embedded in an old universe, or we have old light embedded in a young universe.

 

[Doveaman]

wouldn't it make more sense to think that what you can see and hear and touch is reality?

I keep telling you guys I have seen, heard, and touched God. Why don't you believe me?

And others have as well.

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched — this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ." - 1 John 1:1-3.

Would anyone care for some "fellowship". It's free.

 

[Doveaman]

I agree with Nostromo. Hiding something is the same as lying.

Remind me not to hide my credit card number, because I would be lying.

 

[AV1611VET]

I agree with Nostromo. Hiding something is the same as lying.

Nostromo, just like you guys, doesn't know the difference between Omphalos and Embedded Age.

 

[AV1611VET]

And again, the same issue arises with the embedded age scenario - tons of claims about embedded age, not history, but the embedded objects form a PATTERN that fits with the history of that dictated by natural processes. So again, it is not conclusive.

What 'embedded objects' are you talking about?

 

[AV1611VET]

Remind me not to hide my credit card number, because I would be lying.

Ya --- the first thing that came to my mind was kids playing Lie-and-go-Seek.

 

[Cabal]

Ya --- the first thing that came to my mind was kids playing Lie-and-go-Seek.

Yup, I'm sure you guys wipe your credit cards out of existence with nary a trace on a regular basis.

 

[Cabal]

What 'embedded objects' are you talking about?

Oh you know, fossils, tree rings, etc - that whole spectrum of history one can derive from the traces left behind.

If these things were embedded, then it sure does LOOK like history.

 

[The Barbarian]

The point is, if God so perfectly faked history that there's no way to discover that it's a fake, it is essentially history.

This obvious truth seems very difficult for some to understand.

 

[AV1611VET]

The point is, if God so perfectly faked history that there's no way to discover that it's a fake, it is essentially history.

This obvious truth seems very difficult for some to understand.

I'll agree with that.

If God wanted to fake us out, believe me, we wouldn't be here discussing this.

That's why He gave us Genesis 1, so we wouldn't be led astray by evolution.

 

[SithDoughnut]

The point is, if God so perfectly faked history that there's no way to discover that it's a fake, it is essentially history.

This obvious truth seems very difficult for some to understand.

That's true. Now all I'm waiting for is someone to give evidence that he did (Genesis doesn't count unless you can prove that the Bible is true and God exists). Otherwise I could just claim anyone faked history at any point.

After all, as we know, the universe was created last Thursday by the great Ceiling Cat, and the whole of the Christian religion and Biblical History was just embedded in it. None of it actually happened, it's just embedded into the universe so perfectly that you wouldn't know the difference. Ergo, ceiling cat exists and Jesus never did. It's all outlined in the LOLcat Bible.

1. Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he did not eated dem. 2. Da Urfs no had shapez An haded dark face, An Ceiling Cat rode invisible bike over teh waterz.
3. At start, no has lyte. An Ceiling Cat sayz, i can haz lite? An lite wuz.
4. An Ceiling Cat sawed teh lite, to seez stuffs, An splitted teh lite from dark but taht wuz ok cuz kittehs can see in teh dark An not tripz over nethin.

5. An Ceiling Cat sayed light Day An dark no Day. It were FURST!!!1

 

[BananaSlug]

Remind me not to hide my credit card number, because I would be lying.

Ooh, yeah because that is such a good analogy.

If you were an omnipotent being that wanted nothing more than all of your special humans to love you, why would you hide all of the physical evidence of your creation especially since you gave humans logic and reason.

The question that is consistently being ignored is this:

If there is no physical evidence that any particular deity created the earth, then any particular religion could be right. Why believe any one religion if there is no physical evidence that shows a particular religion is the "right one"?

 

[AV1611VET]

If you were an omnipotent being that wanted nothing more than all of your special humans to love you, why would you hide all of the physical evidence of your creation especially since you gave humans logic and reason.

You can't hide something that never existed.

 

[BananaSlug]

You can't hide something that never existed.

Creation never existed?

 

[Cabal]

I'll agree with that.

If God wanted to fake us out, believe me, we wouldn't be here discussing this.

That's why He gave us Genesis 1, so we wouldn't be led astray by evolution.

So you admit that it is embedded history.

Thanks, that took long enough.

Well, so much for that hypothesis.

 

[Nostromo]

Nostromo, just like you guys, doesn't know the difference between Omphalos and Embedded Age.

I've searched and I haven't found a decent description of the difference. Enlighten me, please.

They use to think the furthest red-shifted light appeared to be 13.7 billion light years away as well. This was how the 13.7 billion years of age was determined.

Now that the red-shifted light appear to be 78 billion light years away, why have they not increased the age of the universe to 78 billion years as well, since age is determined by the most distant red-shifted light?

Because that's not how it works.

The amount of red-shift tells us how fast the stars are traveling relative to us. Looking at where it appears to be and working backwards to when the matter was clumped together gives an age (13 billion years), and you can work out how much further it has traveled since the light left it to give it's current distance (78 billion light years). That's a very simplified version anyway.

It's like when you hear a plane, you need to look further forward to see where it is now, rather than when the sound left it, and by the increase/decrease in pitch you can tell how fast it's traveling towards/away from you.

Maybe that red-shifted light didn't need to take that long to reach us either.

It travels at a constant speed in a vacuum so unless he planted them mid-flight that doesn't make any sense. But then none of this seems to make any sense.

The point is, if God so perfectly faked history that there's no way to discover that it's a fake, it is essentially history.

Do you and AV both choose your religion based on how little correlation there is to reality?

Ya --- the first thing that came to my mind was kids playing Lie-and-go-Seek.

Obviously in this case "hide" mean a good deal more than putting it in the attic out of the way of the kids. The evidence was purposefully removed and a false replacement left in its place.

 

[AV1611VET]

I've searched and I haven't found a decent description of the difference. Enlighten me, please.

1

The evidence was purposefully removed and a false replacement left in its place.

What evidence?

Care to take this challenge: 1?

 

[Nostromo]

I'm still none the wiser about embedded age vs history. My best guess is that the universe was created with the appearance of age but none of it happened. Burnt out stars, tree rings, everything. Is that right or have I missed something subtle?

What evidence?

Flood evidence: 35. Someone commented on my 'hiding the evidence' post.

Care to take this challenge: 1?

As far as I'm aware there isn't any evidence. Latest hypothesis is that a proto-planet collided with Earth. Where are we going with this?